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Is Gainey the problem?

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Old
02-11-2009, 02:56 PM
  #226
Ozymandias
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
How do you know that as fact? Are you psychic? Did you ask Wheeler?

Sorry I don't accept assumptions I make as fact, unlike you do.

I am a Habs fan. Always have been, always will be.
Yeah, like you presumed/assumed Burke was the one who traded for Luongo... ahem.

Also, get off your high horse, you are the one who made the assumption about Wheeler not coming here because he thought Boston was the better team. Did he tell you that? Did he say that in interview? NO. That's an assumption too. Don't ask people to not do what you do yourself and then prance around like your standards are higher when the truth is that they are lower regarding truth/fact/analysis and understanding.

But an educated guess/assumption, would have one look at both team's roster and easily conclude that Wheeler's chances of having the most ice time was with the Bruins as the Habs had already a full assembly of 4 top 6 wingers, and also had many rookies on the way like Latendresse, Sergei Kostitsyn, Matt D'Agostini and Max Pacioretty (who had both signed or resigned before July 1st, before Wheeler became a FA). Just the fact that he CONSIDERED Boston AND Montreal as his final choices shows that his choice wasn't based on Montreal not being a winning environment, especially considering that they finished 1st in the conference last season and that the team was full of sophomores and rookies.

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How can it be 2 out of only 4 seasons, when his "5 year plan has already passed"?
Well if you can actually count, Gainey was here for 4 FULL seasons of activity. This is the 5th. But I wouldn,t be surprised you also have a hard time to simply count from 1 to 4. The reason why I say it is passed, is because the goal is accomplished. The goal now is too keep it competitive and make them better. Such simple facts seem so complicated for you to understand. I pity you.

I highly doubt you are a Habs fan. Unless you are the Réjean Tremblay type of Habs fan. That would make sense.

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02-11-2009, 02:59 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Rscorpio View Post
if you think you're psychic... maybe you are

That's from the Starship Troopers movie, right?

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02-11-2009, 03:04 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yeah, like you presumed/assumed Burke was the one who traded for Luongo... ahem.

Also, get off your high horse, you are the one who made the assumption about Wheeler not coming here because he thought Boston was the better team. Did he tell you that? Did he say that in interview? NO. That's an assumption too. Don't ask people to not do what you do yourself and then prance around like your standards are higher when the truth is that they are lower regarding truth/fact/analysis and understanding.

But an educated guess/assumption, would have one look at both team's roster and easily conclude that Wheeler's chances of having the most ice time was with the Bruins as the Habs had already a full assembly of 4 top 6 wingers, and also had many rookies on the way like Latendresse, Sergei Kostitsyn, Matt D'Agostini and Max Pacioretty (who had both signed or resigned before July 1st, before Wheeler became a FA). Just the fact that he CONSIDERED Boston AND Montreal as his final choices shows that his choice wasn't based on Montreal not being a winning environment, especially considering that they finished 1st in the conference last season and that the team was full of sophomores and rookies.



Well if you can actually count, Gainey was here for 4 FULL seasons of activity. This is the 5th. But I wouldn,t be surprised you also have a hard time to simply count from 1 to 4. The reason why I say it is passed, is because the goal is accomplished. The goal now is too keep it competitive and make them better. Such simple facts seem so complicated for you to understand. I pity you.

I highly doubt you are a Habs fan. Unless you are the Réjean Tremblay type of Habs fan. That would make sense.
Like you assumed that Savard was in charge of the 2003 draft when he wasn't (proven by a quote from Timmins himself)?

Maybe he thought the Bruins had a better chance of attracting big time free agents like Chara?

The bottom line is this (which I guess you've chosen to ignore) is that you are happy winning the odd playoff series. I am not. If I were a fan of the Phoenix Coyotes, then maybe, but not this team.

Name the teams that have had more playoff success than Montreal in the last, say 5 years. It's a lengthy list.

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02-11-2009, 03:14 PM
  #229
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02-11-2009, 03:14 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Like you assumed that Savard was in charge of the 2003 draft when he wasn't (proven by a quote from Timmins himself)?

Maybe he thought the Bruins had a better chance of attracting big time free agents like Chara?

The bottom line is this (which I guess you've chosen to ignore) is that you are happy winning the odd playoff series. I am not. If I were a fan of the Phoenix Coyotes, then maybe, but not this team.

Name the teams that have had more playoff success than Montreal in the last, say 5 years. It's a lengthy list.
find a new hobby.

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02-11-2009, 03:16 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
find a new hobby.
Coming from something whose posted 1600 more times than I have...

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02-11-2009, 03:20 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Like you assumed that Savard was in charge of the 2003 draft when he wasn't (proven by a quote from Timmins himself)?
Hmmm, no, I never said Savard was in charge, like always you have to invent things so to make you look better when the fact is you've been spreading BS all over this board for two days now. What I said is that Savard was the assistant GM and was the one in charge of the draft before Timmins arrived. Timmins was relatively new, and this might be news to you, but the one who has the final decision on drafting is the GM, and that was Gainey, who had arrived only one month prior. Savard was part of the decision process, and could overule Timmins. Since Gainey had just came in and that Savard was in charge of the draft prior to Timmins, he was assuringly a big part of the decision.

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Maybe he thought the Bruins had a better chance of attracting big time free agents like Chara?
Chara was already with the Bruins. Get a clue.

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The bottom line is this (which I guess you've chosen to ignore) is that you are happy winning the odd playoff series. I am not. If I were a fan of the Phoenix Coyotes, then maybe, but not this team.
No yet again, it is you who has ignored what I said, go back to my previous post and while you're at it, read KrissE's post. I'm not happy winning the "odd" playoff series, but I also know you don't go from a dead end team to a contender with a flick of the fingers like you seem to believe.

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Name the teams that have had more playoff success than Montreal in the last, say 5 years. It's a lengthy list.
No it isnt, not if you check what they previously were. How many teams started from 1 playoff appearance in the span of 5 years, and then made the playoffs 3 years out of the next 4. The list is pretty short. That's critical thinking, again. You would go and include teams like the Red Wings, but Gainey didn't start off with the 2002-2003 Red Wings, he started off with the remnants of the 2002-2003 Habs. Its much more difficult to do it with the ladder, which is something you seem completely blind to.

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02-11-2009, 03:22 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Coming from something whose posted 1600 more times than I have...

Well, I'm not the one taking it way too seriously... and hum, I dont wait for the Habs to lose to post!

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02-11-2009, 03:22 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Coming from something whose posted 1600 more times than I have...
I think he rather meant hockey. Find a new hobby, because you are totally clueless about hockey.

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02-11-2009, 03:22 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Name the teams that have had more playoff success than Montreal in the last, say 5 years. It's a lengthy list.
Ya..we could start with Detroit. God knows how bad they've been and how much they struggle right.
You can't compare apples with melons, even if they're both fruits.

You name the teams that had more PO success than Mtl but were in the same situation Mtl was in. Not a lengthy list.

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02-11-2009, 03:24 PM
  #236
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bob's job is not just to make the team better by drafting, but by TRADE as well....

and so far 1/2 the job is getting done...

he himself said , good drafting allows one to use the trade market better, to allow to trade other assets to gain ones in trade, so far , none.

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02-11-2009, 03:26 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I think he rather meant hockey. Find a new hobby, because you are totally clueless about hockey.
Right...Thanks.

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02-11-2009, 03:27 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
bob's job is not just to make the team better by drafting, but by TRADE as well....

and so far 1/2 the job is getting done...

he himself said , good drafting allows one to use the trade market better, to allow to trade other assets to gain ones in trade, so far , none.
looking at the last 2-3 years, I don't think it can be qualified as "market"...

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02-11-2009, 03:28 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Well, I'm not the one taking it way too seriously... and hum, I dont wait for the Habs to lose to post!
Sorry I can't post after every game - just don't have the time. It doesn't mean that much to me, but I enjoy reading people's ideas when they are firmly on the Hab kool-aid.

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02-11-2009, 03:29 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
bob's job is not just to make the team better by drafting, but by TRADE as well....

and so far 1/2 the job is getting done...

he himself said , good drafting allows one to use the trade market better, to allow to trade other assets to gain ones in trade, so far , none.
None??? Yeah, he probably asked Calgary and Chicago to drop Tanguay and Lang on the waivers so they could pick them up....

No wait... the Habs traded for them!!!

Oh and Kovalev too.

Gorges and Pacioretty.... wasn't it that Rivet?

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02-11-2009, 03:31 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Sorry I can't post after every game - just don't have the time. It doesn't mean that much to me, but I enjoy reading people's idea when they are firmly on the Hab kool-aid.

and yours is what, Orange or Fruit Punch ?

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02-11-2009, 03:32 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Sorry I can't post after every game - just don't have the time. It doesn't mean that much to me, but I enjoy reading people's idea when they are firmly on the Hab kool-aid.
yeah, its way easier to say people drink the kool-aid than actually admitting just how flawed your arguments are. You can't even counter our arguments point by point. This is what you are left with now, trying to disgrace and downplay our POVs, instead of actually countering them with solid contructive arguments and facts.

If this was the Houle era, I would totally agree with you, but it isn't.

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02-11-2009, 03:36 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
yeah, its way easier to say people drink the kool-aid than actually admitting just how flawed your arguments are. You can't even counter our arguments point by point. This is what you are left with now, trying to disgrace and downplay our POVs, instead of actually countering them with solid contructive arguments and facts.

If this was the Houle era, I would totally agree with you, but it isn't.
What do you need countering? That A.Kostitsyn was a great pick considering the talent in that draft class?

Your argument is that having 10 free agents is beneficial because they can get rid of dead weight - I say it doesn't lead to team cohesion and will leave a big void after this season. Both points can be argued I guess but the teams play this season speaks volumes with the amount of players having down years (Kovalev, Plek, Komi etc).

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02-11-2009, 03:37 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
bob's job is not just to make the team better by drafting, but by TRADE as well....

and so far 1/2 the job is getting done...

he himself said , good drafting allows one to use the trade market better, to allow to trade other assets to gain ones in trade, so far , none.
Bob's job is to understand what building a team under a hard salary cap means.

Bob's job is to have the vision to draft well as he also knows that it is impossible to build dynasties anymore due to that cap.

Bob's job is to know that you'll need your quality youth to replace the more expansive players which you will be losing every year not because you don't want to keep them, but because you can't afford them all.

Bob's job is to make sure that you don't give up the farm for a rent-a-player scheduled to become UFA for that reason.

Bob's job is to recognize when it's time to back down from a bidding war because it will ultimately hurt the team long term if he overpays.

Bob understands. Too many here obviously don't.

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02-11-2009, 03:46 PM
  #245
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"Bob's job is to have the vision to draft well as he also knows that it is impossible to build dynasties anymore due to that cap"

dynasties?

who's talking about dynasties?

he hasn't even won 2 playoff series in one year here

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02-11-2009, 03:52 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nittany View Post
What do you need countering? That A.Kostitsyn was a great pick considering the talent in that draft class?

Your argument is that having 10 free agents is beneficial because they can get rid of dead weight - I say it doesn't lead to team cohesion and will leave a big void after this season. Both points can be argued I guess but the teams play this season speaks volumes with the amount of players having down years (Kovalev, Plek, Komi etc).
Not only about AKost. We were talking about Gainey. You like flipping and switching issues so much, its an easy way to distract from the conversation when you know you can't prove your point and your arguments are being destroyed. Point by point for everything we have talked. When you see you are wrong, you automatically switch to something else, rinse and repeat, without ever acknowledging the fact that your arguments were wrong, nor trying to further defend them, you just switch to something else, another argument entirely.

Speaks volume??? Yeah, like the fact they were 14-2-1 before being 2-8????

That still makes them 16-10-1 over the last 27 games....

What big void? Some of these UFAs will come back, its not ALL of them who are playing badly and not coming back. It doesn't lead to team cohesion? What the hell do you know about team cohesion? They had team cohesion last year, and it was BG and Carbo who were there. You seem to forget that. If they knew what it took then, they certainly know now, and they certainly know better than you.

I bet you use the term kool-aid against anyone who doesn't agree with you

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02-11-2009, 03:59 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by 3TB3 View Post
dynasties?

who's talking about dynasties?

he hasn't even won 2 playoff series in one year here
Allow me to explain, I thought it was somewhat clear but obviously not.

You can't keep your players forever anymore for a couple of reasons. One is the salary cap. When players reach the status of RFA, they often get a substantial raise. Two is that players are now eligible to become UFA's at 27-28 years old, in their prime.

So you can't build teams, as successful as they might become, to stay together for a long period of time. Which means that even if we were to win big, we couldn't build a dynasty.

So getting back to my point, Bob knows that.

Hope this clarifies.

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02-11-2009, 05:16 PM
  #248
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Allow me to explain, I thought it was somewhat clear but obviously not.

You can't keep your players forever anymore for a couple of reasons. One is the salary cap. When players reach the status of RFA, they often get a substantial raise. Two is that players are now eligible to become UFA's at 27-28 years old, in their prime.

So you can't build teams, as successful as they might become, to stay together for a long period of time. Which means that even if we were to win big, we couldn't build a dynasty.

So getting back to my point, Bob knows that.

Hope this clarifies.
true to a point, but this team is the same as it has been , small and weak.

even you say trade #27, and bob brought him in

don't get me wrong, i like bob, and the drafts he has, but time to change the direction of this team, and make it strong over 2 lines

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02-11-2009, 06:42 PM
  #249
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I'm tempted to get in on this topic, but instead I'll just make fun of myself for everyone else's amusement, especially in these dark times for us Habs fans.

I've been a strong and consistent supporter of Gainey since he took over. Hainsey, Beauchemin, Samsonov -- not his fault. I'm pretty sure I could even dig up a post that defended the Niinimaa trade. The only real criticism I lobbed at him was for the Lang acquisition, because I thought that was a really stupid move.

So that's my contribution.

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02-11-2009, 06:47 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
true to a point, but this team is the same as it has been , small and weak.

even you say trade #27, and bob brought him in

don't get me wrong, i like bob, and the drafts he has, but time to change the direction of this team, and make it strong over 2 lines
I do say to trade #27 but even as someone who never liked the guy, it's hard to argue against his contribution to this team last year.

Please check a few posts earlier today (at the top of this page I believe), I did dedicate a reply to you specifically (and others who put Gainey down). It wasn't an attack or anything along those lines, but simply some of Gainey's duties as a GM, all of which he excels at.

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Originally Posted by davedave View Post
I'm tempted to get in on this topic, but instead I'll just make fun of myself for everyone else's amusement, especially in these dark times for us Habs fans.

I've been a strong and consistent supporter of Gainey since he took over. Hainsey, Beauchemin, Samsonov -- not his fault. I'm pretty sure I could even dig up a post that defended the Niinimaa trade. The only real criticism I lobbed at him was for the Lang acquisition, because I thought that was a really stupid move.

So that's my contribution.
And a fine contribution it was.

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