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Is Gainey the problem?

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Old
02-12-2009, 10:41 AM
  #301
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Problem is, they didn't just miss on Getzlaf - it's the otherguys that have turned out to be great. Burns, Parise, Richards, Carter, Perry etc.
Are you really grasping at straws that you have to diss the Habs's drafting now??..
We have one of the greatest pool of prospects throughout the league.

We can't get them all right, but the bottom line we 16 roster players that were drafted by the Habs and are currently regulars on our team.
Take Koivu/Breezer/Bouillon, that leaves 13 players.

But yea, let's look at some of the names he and almost every other GM missed..

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Old
02-12-2009, 10:42 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by couz View Post
When things get this bad they start looking at the GM to react...its time for Gainey to do something because everything has been tried at the ice level.

Gainey has to show some life...
Pretty much what Laraque told the media,I think the players are waiting for a move but Gainey like usual isn't doing anything

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02-12-2009, 10:43 AM
  #303
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by HotHabsFan View Post
your right we DON'T ! you are basing all this on whats going on in your head, you have no inside info. You know nothing about what Streit and his agent were thinking and dealing with BG.
Yes..that's my goal in life. Lie about meaningless things on hf..
Riiiight...I'm so cool



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02-12-2009, 10:44 AM
  #304
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We will all have our socks blown off before the Habs get back from out west, IMO BG is planning a doozy, some of our big name players will be leaving this team real soon, and we will be getting back some big name players !

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02-12-2009, 10:45 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Pretty much what Laraque told the media,I think the players are waiting for a move but Gainey like usual isn't doing anything
This team needs a trade, anything to shake it up. And NOW is the moment.

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02-12-2009, 10:45 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Are you really grasping at straws that you have to diss the Habs's drafting now??..
We have one of the greatest pool of prospects throughout the league.

We can't get them all right, but the bottom line we 16 roster players that were drafted by the Habs and are currently regulars on our team.
Take Koivu/Breezer/Bouillon, that leaves 13 players.

But yea, let's look at some of the names he and almost every other GM missed..
Are we not allowed to question their drafting record? Why? I really couldn't care less what other teams do.

You say we have the greatest prospects, but they are exactly that. Prospects. Aside from PK Subban and Pacioretty, I don't see anything special there.

The young players (who are supposed to be our core) are regressing this year. It's pretty clear.

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Old
02-12-2009, 10:45 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes..that's my goal in life. Lie about meaningless things on hf..
Riiiight...I'm so cool


like 1000s of others before you.

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Old
02-12-2009, 10:47 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Problem is, they didn't just miss on Getzlaf - it's the otherguys that have turned out to be great. Burns, Parise, Richards, Carter, Perry etc.
in hindsight yes they missed on those guys but at the same time, kosty supposedly had "top 5 talent" but with the caveat that he had some medical issues so they took a risk and went with that and went for a guy that they figured was the BPA.. if the scouting dept was right and we got a guy who became a force and all that he'd be considered a steal (well sortve at least given the quality of players in that draft)

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Old
02-12-2009, 10:47 AM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
This team needs a trade, anything to shake it up. And NOW is the moment.
Going into the ASB,we already saw that there was a problem somewhere with the loses to Atlanta and the one to Jersey,Gainey should have benn ready but he's not,I have never bashed him since getting here but now he's starting to piss me off

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02-12-2009, 10:49 AM
  #310
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I SAID last year, trade up when you have the strenghths, and on a high, now on a low, what do you give up

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02-12-2009, 10:49 AM
  #311
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Quit with the damn Getzlaf/Draft2003 talk, nothing can be done.

Gainey should make a lateral move, Kovalev for a Pierre Dagenais seems fair.

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02-12-2009, 10:50 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Funkiness View Post
Quit with the damn Getzlaf/Draft2003 talk, nothing can be done.

Gainey should make a lateral move, Kovalev for a Pierre Dagenais seems fair.
ha ha

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02-12-2009, 10:54 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Funkiness View Post
Quit with the damn Getzlaf/Draft2003 talk, nothing can be done.

Gainey should make a lateral move, Kovalev for a Pierre Dagenais seems fair.
but we traded his best buddies.. would he function without his clique?

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Old
02-12-2009, 10:59 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
It's a dumb argument because it's a ****** way to evaluate scouting departments. EVERY teams will end up picking the wrong player in insight in a given draft - in fact they will end up picking the wrong player way more often than the right one! So it's completely useless to look at specific instances and base your conclusion on that.

The same way that the only way we can evaluate the habs draft scouting is by the aggregate: for example, how many players drafted by Timmins or Gainey have made the NHL compared to other teams? And when you look at it this way, it becomes very obvious that we are one of the top drafting team in the league.

If some of you still don't get it, here's another experiment: in your opinion, which franchises have the best scouting departments? For every one of these teams, I'm sure I'll be able to find obvious instances where they picked a player when another, much better player (in insight) was also available. Does it mean they also suck?
Well I don't believe anybody said that we sucked in the drafting department. But I personnally don't judge a drafting team solely on the number of players you draft and that reached the NHL. But it counts, I agree. In that department, we're probably the best. But I also look at the number of key ingredients, at the guys that you can't usually trade for 'cause they're too important, and at the guys that you can't get through UFA 'cause there's either too many teams that will make a pitch from him reducing our chance to get him AND 'cause still most of the guys DO NOT pick Montreal as a destination. So in general, usually, key players in Montreal NEEDS to come through the draft. Who are our key players right now? Koivu, Komi, Price, Kovy, Markov, AKost. How many draft picks in there?

Now, Timmins can't make miracles 'cause he's not picking top 5 (except for 1 time). But we are not talking about that either. Other great and significant players have been picked later than top 15 in most drafts. Now does every team makes mistakes? Who said they didn't. But I believe that what's important is our team and I can tell you that other fanbases, other journalists are also taking care of their management and how poorly they have picked. So we're taking care of our own business. But I know that in order to be better, I will not compare myself to the worst in order to feel better.

Again, Timmins is good. Probably, with his group, the best out there to determine who has it to play in the NHL. But we need to take it to the other level. Something that picks like Price, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Subban and even AKost might be able to turn it around. But stats obviously says that, usually, 1st rounders are the safest bet to not only play but be significant players in this league (said usually, I know about Lidstrom, Datsyuk....). So forget about the other rounds for a second where the more you've going up, the more it is a crapshoot and concentrate on the 1st round. Something tells me that we would have been able to do better than AKost, Chipchura and Fischer (as great of a defender of his I am). I obviously still believe in Price even if at the time, I panicked for no reason. And believe that McDo and MaxPac are great picks (remains to be seen how McDo will leave Wisconsin, but that's not Timmins fault...). We had no 1st rounder in 2008, but while I like Kristo, I believe and said so at the time that there were better picks at the time, at least better picks as far as needs are concerned, 'cause needs are important, reason why we racked so many d-men at one point.

So again, it's not because Timmins and Co are criticized that they suck. They don't. They're good and we're lucky to have them. We keep praising him for Subban, Weber and name all the others.....But can we criticize the ones that didn't go that well? So when he's right, he's a god, when he's not, draft is a crapshoot? We have opinions, as good as they are, which is watching way less games than they are watching and basing ourselves on opinions of others. That's just the fan way of analysing it. Can other posters also recognize it and stop saying "They know better" 'cause if so, let's close this board.....'cause management will ALWAYS know better....

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02-12-2009, 11:03 AM
  #315
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Are we not allowed to question their drafting record? Why? I really couldn't care less what other teams do.

You say we have the greatest prospects, but they are exactly that. Prospects. Aside from PK Subban and Pacioretty, I don't see anything special there.

The young players (who are supposed to be our core) are regressing this year. It's pretty clear.
You don't?..
Right now, we're struggling, so basing ourselves solely on the current performance of our players would be stupid. A lot of them are having a bad season, but in no way does it reflect their potential/skill.

What about Price?..Halak?..Komisarek?..Plek?..Higgins?..D'Ago ?..MaxPac?..O'Byrne?..Kost broz?..Lapierre?..Lats?..
Some were better than others, but nonetheless, they're all interesting prospects and trade bait if ever needed.

As for the upcoming ones, Weber, Carle, Subban, McDonagh, Kristo, Maxwell, etc.. are all interesting too.

Looking at the players we missed in the Drafts isn't a smart way to evaluate our draft record.
Bottom line is, our team mostly consists of draft picks we made. We need to surround a few of them better, but all in all, it's the same team that finished 1st last year.
Now don't come over the top with the gay ''we lost in 2nd Round'' crappy argument, because it doesn't change the fact we finished 1st. I don't care if we'd have been swept in 1st round, you can't be a bad team and win the conference.

Our drafting as been one of the best, might be a couple teams that did better, but there isn't that many.
If you think our record isn't that good, tell me which Team has drafted better that had similar picks then us.

Don't name me Pittsburgh when they finished last 3times in a row..or teams like them.

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02-12-2009, 11:03 AM
  #316
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It's funny because this board reads a lot like the Oilers board over the last few months with everyone wondering why the GM doesn't do something to fix the team. Given this and the overall paucity of significant trades in today's NHL, maybe it's not a question of the GMs sitting on their hands so much as it is the GMs having their hands tied by the market place.

Look at how tight the standings are in both conferences. Six points between fourth place and tenth in the east, six between fifth and twelfth in the West. Every GM on the bubble will want to make moves to push them over the top, but nobody wants to give anything of real value up to do it.

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Old
02-12-2009, 11:10 AM
  #317
gusfring
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C'mon, some of our prospects are so overrated, it's unbelievable.

Like Whitesnake said, if Timmins makes a good pick, he's a genius and if he doesn't than "all other teams missed" him and it's just luck. You can't have it both ways.

That being said, I don't think Timmins has done a bad job, but I do think they need to re-organize their criteria and look to bigger, more physical Canadian prospects.

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02-12-2009, 11:10 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well I don't believe anybody said that we sucked in the drafting department. But I personnally don't judge a drafting team solely on the number of players you draft and that reached the NHL. But it counts, I agree. In that department, we're probably the best. But I also look at the number of key ingredients, at the guys that you can't usually trade for 'cause they're too important, and at the guys that you can't get through UFA 'cause there's either too many teams that will make a pitch from him reducing our chance to get him AND 'cause still most of the guys DO NOT pick Montreal as a destination. So in general, usually, key players in Montreal NEEDS to come through the draft. Who are our key players right now? Koivu, Komi, Price, Kovy, Markov, AKost. How many draft picks in there?

Now, Timmins can't make miracles 'cause he's not picking top 5 (except for 1 time). But we are not talking about that either. Other great and significant players have been picked later than top 15 in most drafts. Now does every team makes mistakes? Who said they didn't. But I believe that what's important is our team and I can tell you that other fanbases, other journalists are also taking care of their management and how poorly they have picked. So we're taking care of our own business. But I know that in order to be better, I will not compare myself to the worst in order to feel better.

Again, Timmins is good. Probably, with his group, the best out there to determine who has it to play in the NHL. But we need to take it to the other level. Something that picks like Price, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Subban and even AKost might be able to turn it around. But stats obviously says that, usually, 1st rounders are the safest bet to not only play but be significant players in this league (said usually, I know about Lidstrom, Datsyuk....). So forget about the other rounds for a second where the more you've going up, the more it is a crapshoot and concentrate on the 1st round. Something tells me that we would have been able to do better than AKost, Chipchura and Fischer (as great of a defender of his I am). I obviously still believe in Price even if at the time, I panicked for no reason. And believe that McDo and MaxPac are great picks (remains to be seen how McDo will leave Wisconsin, but that's not Timmins fault...). We had no 1st rounder in 2008, but while I like Kristo, I believe and said so at the time that there were better picks at the time, at least better picks as far as needs are concerned, 'cause needs are important, reason why we racked so many d-men at one point.

So again, it's not because Timmins and Co are criticized that they suck. They don't. They're good and we're lucky to have them. We keep praising him for Subban, Weber and name all the others.....But can we criticize the ones that didn't go that well? So when he's right, he's a god, when he's not, draft is a crapshoot? We have opinions, as good as they are, which is watching way less games than they are watching and basing ourselves on opinions of others. That's just the fan way of analysing it. Can other posters also recognize it and stop saying "They know better" 'cause if so, let's close this board.....'cause management will ALWAYS know better....
Excellent post.

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