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Do YOU want Carbonneau fired?

View Poll Results: Do YOU want Carbo fired?
Yes 187 42.02%
No 258 57.98%
Voters: 445. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-12-2009, 06:42 PM
  #51
Galchenyuk x 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle View Post
Yeah, but this is what was said about all of our past coaches and they aint doing too bad now (i.e., Julien running away with the East, Therrien making an appearence in the Stanley Cup Finals). Bahhh, changing coaches just seems to be nothing but a temporary band-aid solution. Sure, players will pick it up for a few weeks, even months, but then they revert back to the same old crap. I think what we need here is stability. You know, it's time the players realize that there is no one that is going to get them out of this but themselves, not a new coach, not a new GM, not a player via trade. They have to dig themselves out of this crap hole and if not then they and they alone will have to (and should) bear the wrath of the fans.
Was firing the other coaches always the right move? no, it was not.

but dont tell me Julien changed his lines every morning.
dont tell me Julien played his 4th liners on the first line
dont tell me Julien bad mouthed everyone on a daily basis to the media

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Old
02-12-2009, 06:43 PM
  #52
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I was calling for his head last night, but that was more because I was just mad about the game.

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Old
02-12-2009, 06:44 PM
  #53
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I have to say yes for two reasons.

1) I have never really agreed with his tactics. His line combos seem random and I'm not a fan of playing defencemens as forwards. Over the years 5 D`s have played as forwards which is ridiculess if you ask me.(Rivet, Bouillon, Gorges, Streit and Dandenault). He isn't the type of coach that this team needs. We need someone with experience and structure which Carbonneau doesn't have just yet.

2) The team is the problem but you can't just trade every player. In these situations, the best possible decision is to take the coach out and put some new blood in the locker room without disrupting the core which has proven last year that they can perform.

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Old
02-12-2009, 06:45 PM
  #54
RC51
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fire Carbo
Fire Gainey
Fire Jarvis
Trade Away all players that are not good this year.
Hire only players that are doing well this year before the deadline.
Hire new coaching staff that has never lost a game "ever"
Sign all players to a commission contract only. You don't get a dime until you score.

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Old
02-12-2009, 06:48 PM
  #55
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I'm really over the mistakes of hiring rookie coaches since '95 and living with the slow burn. I don't see how it can be any clearer how much Carbo does NOT have this team. It's his job to find the solution, it's his job to reel it in and motivate these guys, have them pulling in one direction.
We have a lot of good players that can be great together and for whatever reason, Carbo is NOT getting the job done. It's as simple as that, for me anyway.

Assistant coach, ok. Head coach?

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Old
02-12-2009, 06:53 PM
  #56
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i think they should fire jarvis and sign komo to a 4 year 20 million dollar contract to be the next associate coach/Defenseman, therefore only half his salary would go against the cap


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Old
02-12-2009, 06:53 PM
  #57
Habs_Apostle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
Was firing the other coaches always the right move? no, it was not.

but dont tell me Julien changed his lines every morning.
dont tell me Julien played his 4th liners on the first line
dont tell me Julien bad mouthed everyone on a daily basis to the media
I honestly don't remember the exact criticisms. It sure would be interesting to call up old threads and see exactly what those critcisms were. For some reason, I do recall a fair amount of line juggling and some peculiar line combinations. As well, I remember one of the criticisms being his insistence on playing older players (and really 4th line pluggers) at the expense of youth. I think the point is that we've had a number of coaches over the years that have been criticized in just about every way imagineable. Letting them go and getting a new guy never helped did it? Why don't we just say enough is enough. Just tell the players he's your coach whether you like it or not; you're not getting off this time! And then before leaving you remark how they are all a bunch of prima donna panzies!

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Old
02-12-2009, 06:56 PM
  #58
mabus
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Ok, Let's put this in an entirely different way.

11 games, 9 loses. 18 goals given up in the last 3 games. 11 games, only 2 wins.

And only NOW has Carbonneau FINALLY decided to TRY Koivu on the same line as Kovalev. Every 8 year old who knows anything about hockey would look at our roster and immediately know Koivu (our best playmaker) should be paired up with Kovalev (our purest natural scorer). We're 11 games into this nightmare and only NOW is Carbonneau deciding to "try" that tandem. Note he tried DEFENCEMEN on the 1st line before even thinking of this pairing.

Does that say anything about his coaching abilities?

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Old
02-12-2009, 06:56 PM
  #59
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Yes because if the problem still exists then you know it's the players. I'd rather fire the coach first than to trade the players because I think everyone would agree that they'd rather fire a coach then trade a player who wasn't a problem and that flourishes elsewhere.

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Old
02-12-2009, 06:57 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle View Post
I honestly don't remember the exact criticisms. It sure would be interesting to call up old threads and see exactly what those critcisms were. For some reason, I do recall a fair amount of line juggling and some peculiar line combinations. As well, I remember one of the criticisms being his insistence on playing older players (and really 4th line pluggers) at the expense of youth. I think the point is that we've had a number of coaches over the years that have been criticized in just about every way imagineable. Letting them go and getting a new guy never helped did it? Why don't we just say enough is enough. Just tell the players he's your coach whether you like it or not; you're not getting off this time!
lol arent they all free agents...

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Old
02-12-2009, 06:58 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle View Post
I honestly don't remember the exact criticisms. It sure would be interesting to call up old threads and see exactly what those critcisms were. For some reason, I do recall a fair amount of line juggling and some peculiar line combinations. As well, I remember one of the criticisms being his insistence on playing older players (and really 4th line pluggers) at the expense of youth. I think the point is that we've had a number of coaches over the years that have been criticized in just about every way imagineable. Letting them go and getting a new guy never helped did it? Why don't we just say enough is enough. Just tell the players he's your coach whether you like it or not; you're not getting off this time!
new coaches yes, but take the last 5 coaches the Habs have had and tell me, how many years experience do they have combined coaching in the NHL before comming to montreal.

We were always a team trying to rebuild...you wont do that with a rookie coach.

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Old
02-12-2009, 06:58 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle View Post
Yeah, but this is what was said about all of our past coaches and they aint doing too bad now (i.e., Julien running away with the East, Therrien making an appearence in the Stanley Cup Finals). Bahhh, changing coaches just seems to be nothing but a temporary band-aid solution. Sure, players will pick it up for a few weeks, even months, but then they revert back to the same old crap. I think what we need here is stability. You know, it's time the players realize that there is no one that is going to get them out of this but themselves, not a new coach, not a new GM, not a player via trade. They have to dig themselves out of this crap hole and if not then they and they alone will have to (and should) bear the wrath of the fans.
Julien got fired because he wasn't playing Theodore anymore at the time. Gainey realized Theodore was sucking in March.

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Old
02-12-2009, 06:59 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
lol arent they all free agents...
lol, well, they'll just have to suffer for a couple of months then!

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Old
02-12-2009, 07:04 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by mabus View Post
Ok, Let's put this in an entirely different way.

11 games, 9 loses. 18 goals given up in the last 3 games. 11 games, only 2 wins.

And only NOW has Carbonneau FINALLY decided to TRY Koivu on the same line as Kovalev. Every 8 year old who knows anything about hockey would look at our roster and immediately know Koivu (our best playmaker) should be paired up with Kovalev (our purest natural scorer). We're 11 games into this nightmare and only NOW is Carbonneau deciding to "try" that tandem. Note he tried DEFENCEMEN on the 1st line before even thinking of this pairing.

Does that say anything about his coaching abilities?
I am not sure if this message is a joke or if it is meant to be serious, but I invite this person to watch games from the past two seasons when Saku and Kovalev were on the same line: didn't work + made it easier for the other teams.

Kovalev can't play with fast skating guys. Beside Chipchura, I don't know who would be a nice fit for him.

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Old
02-12-2009, 07:04 PM
  #65
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And he is known for his lack of communication with his player. When you have a team with so many young guns and many european, communication is a must. We never heard that he had a chat with a player in his office.

I remember Steve Begin was scratched without any reason by Carbo and Begin said he didn't talk to Carbo and so he had no idea why he was scratched

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Old
02-12-2009, 07:05 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
new coaches yes, but take the last 5 coaches the Habs have had and tell me, how many years experience do they have combined coaching in the NHL before comming to montreal.

We were always a team trying to rebuild...you wont do that with a rookie coach.
A part of me hopes they're all on the same page, though, coach and players. I mean, that they are all suffering together and learning together. If so, then maybe they'll come out of this the better for it. It's my light at the end of a loooog, dark tunnel! Still, why not ride it out till the end of the year. Who knows, maybe things will turn around and the collective experience of suffering will be transformed into something beautiful. Otherwise, in the offseason, make massive changes - coaches and players - and begin fresh next season. Make sense?

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Old
02-12-2009, 07:07 PM
  #67
mabus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
I am not sure if this message is a joke or if it is meant to be serious, but I invite this person to watch games from the past two seasons when Saku and Kovalev were on the same line: didn't work + made it easier for the other teams.

Kovalev can't play with fast skating guys. Beside Chipchura, I don't know who would be a nice fit for him.
Oh please, we spent >ALL< of last season screaming for Carbonneau to put them together, and aside for a couple of shifts (and the power play, which was #1 in the league) he never did.

Kovalev is a fast skater, he's usually on a line with plekanec for petes sake.

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Old
02-12-2009, 07:10 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle View Post
A part of me hopes they're all on the same page, though, coach and players. I mean, that they are all suffering together and learning together. If so, then maybe they'll come out of this the better for it. It's my light at the end of a loooog, dark tunnel! Still, why not ride it out till the end of the year. Who knows, maybe things will turn around and the collective experience of suffering will be transformed into something beautiful. Otherwise, in the offseason, make massive changes - coaches and players - and begin fresh next season. Make sense?
cuz riding it out, we may miss the playoffs, and trust me when i tell you, i need playoff hockey with the habs!

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02-12-2009, 07:15 PM
  #69
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"I've been saying this team is a cup contender for a couple of seasons now. And i've been EXTREMELY vocal about my opinion that Carbonneau is doing a lousy job since his very first season. I've written many posts on the subject, if you want to see them browse my posts, they're not exactly hidden."

I don't doubt you have been saying it for a few seasons but i asked you to show one example from the first quarter of this season for a reason, you already know where the example is right? So just put the link in, or if can't find one, my point is proven.

I wonder if any of the posters will enlighten us as to which tools are available, that are viable in the NHL, that any coach can use to get some sort better results from the team? Point form please.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 02-13-2009 at 12:09 AM.
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02-12-2009, 07:23 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by mabus View Post
Ok, Let's put this in an entirely different way.

11 games, 9 loses. 18 goals given up in the last 3 games. 11 games, only 2 wins.

And only NOW has Carbonneau FINALLY decided to TRY Koivu on the same line as Kovalev. Every 8 year old who knows anything about hockey would look at our roster and immediately know Koivu (our best playmaker) should be paired up with Kovalev (our purest natural scorer). We're 11 games into this nightmare and only NOW is Carbonneau deciding to "try" that tandem. Note he tried DEFENCEMEN on the 1st line before even thinking of this pairing.

Does that say anything about his coaching abilities?

Koivu and Kovalev have played together before and it does not work well. Ask any of the regulars here and they will tell you that.

Additionally, most of the players that play with Koivu play better as a result of his playmaking abilities. That's why he is the Captain.
Kovalev playing with anyone needs to control the entire play and pace of the play which is hard for other players to do when they play with him. I do not have a solution for Kovalev unless they give him the captaincy, he just does not seem all there.

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Old
02-12-2009, 07:25 PM
  #71
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Carbo will make a great assistant for Roy.

Jarvis can stay.

And I think Muller might still be able to lace them up and push this team over the edge.

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02-12-2009, 07:28 PM
  #72
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On this page there is not one rookie user and we are all talking like we are each right, what if that is what is going on in the teams dressing room? Squabbling over little things that are out of their control, the players should never control who the coach is. Players can control their own ice time and positions though, guess how? Play it like you want it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
How can someone say Jarvis is doing fine?

out Dmen cant clear the zone, thats a MAJOR problem which means the D coach is not doing fine.
we did not have that problem all season so what has changed, the players not doing what they already know how to do.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 02-13-2009 at 12:10 AM.
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Old
02-12-2009, 07:34 PM
  #73
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02-12-2009, 07:37 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
On this page there is not one rookie user and we are all talking like we are each right, what if that is what is going on in the teams dressing room? Squabbling over little things that are out of their control, the players should never control who the coach is. Players can control their own ice time and positions though, guess how? Play it like you want it!
Speaking of squabblers, have you sent your resume to Bob?

You seem to have all the answers.

Just a thought?

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02-12-2009, 07:44 PM
  #75
mabus
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I don't doubt you have been saying it for a few seasons but i asked you to show one example from the first quarter of this season for a reason, you already know where the example is right? So just put the link in, or if can't find one, my point is proven.
I haven't been *****ing about Carbonneau since the start of the season... why would I? I don't want the guy to fail, I want him to improve each season and get better, and Each season I start off crossing my fingers, hoping against hope that he actually improves, and halfway through each season he sucks just as badly as the last.

I'm not at all sure what you are looking to prove.. That I have NOT been bashing Carbonneau right from training camp? That's I've given him a chance? Is that a bad thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
I wonder if any of the posters will enlighten us as to which tools are available, that are viable in the NHL, that any coach can use to get some sort better results from the team? Point form please.
I've been doing this repeatedly (as have others), but you seem to have missed all our points. I'll restate them for you here.

A) A good coach doesn't bash his players on a nightly basis. He occaisionally will call a player or two out when it's needed, but he won't whip his teams players on a nightly basis blaming them for every mistake (even when the team is winning) before the press.

B) A good coach doesn't sit the team's core players, it's heart and soul. Benching players like Rivet and Koivu without any explanation

C) A good coach does not bench players without even talking to them (like he did with Begin, benching him without even saying a word)

D) A good coach does not bench his best players for the third period for the smallest mistake (as he often does with players like Koivu or Kovalev)

E) A good coach does not play defensemen as forward. As has been pointed out elsewhere, Carbonneau has played a total of >FIVE< defencemen as forwards over the past 3 seasons. There's probably less than five defencemen who have been played as forwards the past 3 seasons in the ENTIRE LEAGUE.

F) A good coach does not play 1st liners in the fourth line, conversely, he doesn't play 4th liners on the 1st line either.

G) A good coach doesn't put the checking line out in the final 30 seconds when the face off is in the other teams end, and you're 1 goal down (Carbonneau has done this many times)

H) A good coach tries his best line out, and sticks to it for several weeks allowing the linemates time to Gel

I) A good coach puts his best playmaker on the same line with his best scorer (Koivu/Kovalev)

J) A good coach understands that a young goalie will not always be emotionally ready every night, it takes years to develop a goalie mentally, to be at peak form every night, so a good coach will PULL his young goalie when he sees him giving up 5 goals in a game, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S THE THIRD GAME IN A ROW HE DOES IT!!!

These are SOME of the things a good coach does.


Last edited by mabus: 02-12-2009 at 07:51 PM.
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