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Morris and Jokinen

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Old
02-14-2009, 02:26 PM
  #26
Adam91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MONACOBLUE View Post
I think they should stay away from Jokinen. He'd be like Kovalev 2.0. There's a reason so many teams gave up on. Hell, Coyotes are shopping him after less than a year. He's a locker room cancer, and he fades down the stretch. He purposely dogged it last year to get Martin fired. He is not worth the headache. Look how great Florida is playing without him.
Jokinen seems to be an incredibly quiet guy but I have also heard some rumours that he's bad in the dressing room.

I want a centre with some grit and playoff expierence, (Jokinen has played a total of 0 playoff games) How about Arnott, Jason??

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Old
02-14-2009, 02:41 PM
  #27
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If Gainey would offer up a Plekance, Higgins and McDonagh...Jokinen and Morris already be here.

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Old
02-14-2009, 02:42 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Adam91 View Post
Jokinen seems to be an incredibly quiet guy but I have also heard some rumours that he's bad in the dressing room.

I want a centre with some grit and playoff expierence, (Jokinen has played a total of 0 playoff games) How about Arnott, Jason??
Who would you rather have...Arnott and Hamruis or Jokinen and Morris? Giving up about the same I mean

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Old
02-14-2009, 07:14 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ducky View Post
Phoenix is so young they cannot really afford to get only prospects back. It has to be a "hockey trade". They will need NHL ready players in return.

In the case of Jokinen he just may not be a good fit with the team. He hasn't really clicked with any linemates. He was supposed to be the dominant centre going head to head against the other big centres in the West (Thornton, Getzlaf etc).Instead, Hanzal has emerged as a bonafide shutdown centre AND has lots of upside offensively.

Keep in mind the Coyotes traded Ballard ( a legit #3 dman with upside), Boynton (tough #5 dman) and a high 2nd round pick to get him.

Morris should be a #2 dman in the NHL but he doesn't often play that way. Still, he is a tough, mobile, 2 way dman with tons of character and grit. He is often paired with a rookie dman - acting as a teacher on the ice and to cover for his partner's mistakes.

Can't see Phoenix trading Morris without getting quite a lot in return - Gorges plus Subban type return.

What does Phoenix need?

A top 2 centre if they trade Jokinen - Plekanec?
A shooting winger(s) - Kostitsyns? Pacioretty?
A mobile, puck moving dman - Gorges? McDonagh? Subban?
Players under 27 years old to grow with the core of the team

To me, it seems unlikely Montreal trades for BOTH.

Are the Kostitsyns necessarily a package?
Morris is an impending UFA so he won't fetch anything near Gorges and Subban (a young cheap 4th/5th Dman and a top D prospect). I could see him fetching a 1st and veteran bottom D like Bouillon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
You guys design trades according to the past criteria. Nowadays, the salary cap is very important, and changes the whole equilibrium. Therefore, to land Jokinen here, you need to give one of Hamrlik, Kovalev or Koivu. It's obvious that the less important one is Kovalev. Therefore, any trade offer for Jokinen should contain the name of Kovalev.
We have around 5 million in cap space already so we wouldn't need to trade players with big cap hits for Jokinen. We would however probably need to trade something like Kovalev to accomodate Morris.

The pros and cons of Jokinen have already been discussed in another trade so I won't say much except that I think he's the closest thing to a big dominant center we'll probably ever be able to trade for at an acceptable price.

I could see us trading something like:

Plekanec
Kovalev
Bouillon
1st in 2010

for

Jokinen
Morris

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Old
02-14-2009, 08:00 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
Whats Jokinen? a First line center? 2nd line center? Powerforward? Someone able to give me a Career Potential break down of him? I'm hearing so many things "great in the dressing room" "hes a real *****" "homo" "*******" "talented player" IM SO CONFUSED!!!!!!!
A first line LW who's being played at centre on teams with poor centre depth (AY HO!!!). He can't win faceoffs nor can he play particularly well defensively or make his linemates a lot better, but he can still put up points, and he's good on the PP.

He has grit, not really physical, but he goes to the net, screen the goalie, deflect shots, shoot A LOT (except this season), and has a decent vision. He'd compliment Saku very well IMO, on the LW of course. He's also said to be quite a *******, but ya know...

I wouldn't give up major assets for him, but what about trading trouble for trouble?

Kovalev+ prospect+ pick for Jokinen?

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Old
02-14-2009, 08:34 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VO Ouragan16 View Post

I could see us trading something like:

Plekanec
Kovalev
Bouillon
1st in 2010

for

Jokinen
Morris
I think you could probably take out Bouillon.

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Old
02-14-2009, 08:42 PM
  #32
Garry Valk
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Plekanec
Fischer
Gorges

for

Jokinen
Morris

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Old
02-15-2009, 10:14 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Valk View Post
Plekanec
Fischer
Gorges

for

Jokinen
Morris
Salary is a problem. I think Kafka is right that any package for those two realistically has to include Kovalev. That might not be a bad thing for Phoenix. Kovalev could help that team make the playoffs. He can be a difference maker, and Gretzky and co. might feel that all he needs is a change of air.

From their POV, assuming that Jokinen in fact hasn't worked out for them, it's not a very big risk. They likely replace his production and impact, potentially even improve it for the stretch run, and they rid themselves of a pretty big contract next year. If Kovalev works out, they can always re-sign him, probably for less than Jokinen's contract.

As for what else would be needed, it's hard to say. Even though one might say that the teams would be swapping headaches in Jokinen and Kovalev, the trade ledger probably has Kovalev and Morris more or less cancelling themselves out: two of this year's top rentals at their respective positions.

Phoenix seemed to give up a lot for Jokinen, but they didn't really. Boynton was on waivers last year, and none of the 29 other teams wanted him. A 2nd round pick in a so-so draft is just that. The only real asset was Ballard, who is a good player. But even then, he had struggled after emerging as a good young defenceman, and (I think) had been surpassed by Yandle, and was relegated behind Morris, Jovanovski, and Michalek. In other words, he was probaby their 5th defenceman.

I would offer Plekanec and be ready with a sweetener, but I wouldn't be ready to open the vault and give away top prospects or 1st rounders. In the end, Montreal is taking on a big salary for a player with question marks. Plekanec, overall, I think is fairly good value: he's cheap, he's versatile, and he might actually have the ability to produce consistently in a top 6 role in the right system and with the right linemates.

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Old
02-15-2009, 10:32 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
A first line LW who's being played at centre on teams with poor centre depth (AY HO!!!). He can't win faceoffs nor can he play particularly well defensively or make his linemates a lot better, but he can still put up points, and he's good on the PP.

He has grit, not really physical, but he goes to the net, screen the goalie, deflect shots, shoot A LOT (except this season), and has a decent vision. He'd compliment Saku very well IMO, on the LW of course. He's also said to be quite a *******, but ya know...

I wouldn't give up major assets for him, but what about trading trouble for trouble?

Kovalev+ prospect+ pick for Jokinen?
Was watching the Coyotes game yesterday and Jokinen was brutal. Giveaways all over the ice, did not finish his checks, and he did not create any offense. Just a brutal effort by him. Then I took a visit to the Yotes board, and they do not have anything good to say about the guy. I just hope we don't give up too much for this guy. I'd be very upset if Gainey passed on getting Hossa (which I'm ok with) only to trade Higgins for Jokinen.

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Old
02-15-2009, 10:49 AM
  #35
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people go to the yotes and their career dies....kovy would fit in great there.

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Old
02-15-2009, 11:10 AM
  #36
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Arnott + Hamhuis would be much prefered.

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Old
02-15-2009, 11:15 AM
  #37
Mats NAslund
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
They just got Olli, i don't think they will move him.
He's been horrible for them and with one more year 5 plus million dollars I think Phoenix who are in financial turmoil might welcome moving Jokinen. He won't come cheap as they did give up Ballard to get him.

Plekanec
1st rounder
Subban

for

Morris - UFA
Jokinen

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Old
02-15-2009, 11:17 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
He's been horrible for them and with one more year 5 plus million dollars I think Phoenix who are in financial turmoil might welcome moving Jokinen. He won't come cheap as they did give up Ballard to get him.

Plekanec
1st rounder
Subban

for

Morris - UFA
Jokinen
That's a decent offer. I would not try and switch Subban for Fischer, though. They're pretty unhappy with him and his contract.

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Old
02-15-2009, 11:19 AM
  #39
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The general consensus about Jokinen is he is sick of playing on non-playoff teams in a non-hockey market. He may be going thru the motions in Phoenix.

I was very excited that Phoenix traded for him. It hasn't really worked out.

He has great talent. Great size. Not the greatest leadership skills. He is normally a shooter though his shot totals are down this season (I blame Gretzky's so-called system).

If Phoenix does trade him they will need a good roster player in return and a prospect IMO. Phoenix could add a prospect to even things out to get a prospect like McDonagh or Subban.

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Old
02-15-2009, 11:53 AM
  #40
JAVO16
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Originally Posted by MONACOBLUE View Post
Was watching the Coyotes game yesterday and Jokinen was brutal. Giveaways all over the ice, did not finish his checks, and he did not create any offense. Just a brutal effort by him. Then I took a visit to the Yotes board, and they do not have anything good to say about the guy. I just hope we don't give up too much for this guy. I'd be very upset if Gainey passed on getting Hossa (which I'm ok with) only to trade Higgins for Jokinen.
I agree, I watched for him the entire game and he was outplayed by Winnik. He really isn't working well in Phoenix and IMO he should come even cheaper than what I thought previously. Actually, I agree with Davedave, but I'd try to keep Plek. He's playing like **** right now, but I think he'll bounce back next year and we can't give up the only center to which we keep the rights. It seems like the Yotes are pretty set at the center even without Jokinen and could probably use a good LW because the entire team seems to be composed of righties(exageration, but still). I wonder if they would be more enticed with maybe Higgins than Plekanec.

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Old
02-15-2009, 11:59 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
He's been horrible for them and with one more year 5 plus million dollars I think Phoenix who are in financial turmoil might welcome moving Jokinen. He won't come cheap as they did give up Ballard to get him.

Plekanec
1st rounder
Subban

for

Morris - UFA
Jokinen
I'm sure Phoenix would do that in a heartbeat...but watching Jokinen last night, he is just a bigger version of Plekanec, he didn't impress me with his lack of intensity for a team in contention.

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Old
02-15-2009, 12:01 PM
  #42
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Was watching him last night for a bit and he doesnt look like the guy we need.

So soff..

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Old
02-15-2009, 12:06 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
They say Phoenix wants a hockey deal...so don't expect as much youth going other way as expect. Gainey may have to get a little creative this trade deadline. Maybe deal a Higgins or Halak or Kovalev to teams that really want these players. Then package so of what we get back for a star and offensive defenseman
I really hope the team holds on to Higgy. I never thought I would hear myself say this, but Kovalev has got to go. I am a huge Kovy fan, but he has been looking so disinterested. He shouldn't be wearing the A. I really don't think Bob will resign him, so it might be best to ship him out, however, I really do think he will shine in the playoffs should he stay. This is assuming the habs even make the playoffs, and if they don't, Kovy will be one of the big factors why they didn't - Carbo has to get him going, if not he should be going via trade.

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Old
02-15-2009, 12:14 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam91 View Post
Jokinen seems to be an incredibly quiet guy but I have also heard some rumours that he's bad in the dressing room.

I want a centre with some grit and playoff expierence, (Jokinen has played a total of 0 playoff games) How about Arnott, Jason??
It's better IMO to switch our cancers to see if ours is worst than their. Then I was about to make a joke about how Koivu is good at getting rid of cancers, but ti could be missunderstood, so I will stop here.

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Old
02-15-2009, 12:18 PM
  #45
Mats NAslund
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Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
It's better IMO to switch our cancers to see if ours is worst than their. Then I was about to make a joke about how Koivu is good at getting rid of cancers, but ti could be missunderstood, so I will stop here.
Sorry to be a jerk....but I can tell you from experience that living with Cancer is no joke.

That being said the term cancer issued loosely and I don't take it personally but I do think another word can be used when talking hockey.

Go Habs

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Old
02-16-2009, 03:12 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by MONACOBLUE View Post
Was watching the Coyotes game yesterday and Jokinen was brutal. Giveaways all over the ice, did not finish his checks, and he did not create any offense. Just a brutal effort by him. Then I took a visit to the Yotes board, and they do not have anything good to say about the guy. I just hope we don't give up too much for this guy. I'd be very upset if Gainey passed on getting Hossa (which I'm ok with) only to trade Higgins for Jokinen.
Damn!

This guy really hates OJ.

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