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Koivu/Kovy, How was it ?

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Old
02-14-2009, 03:39 PM
  #51
Habsterix*
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Originally Posted by RushDP View Post
What is Kovalev's agenda? Just wondering if you were privy to that. I thought he might be playing for a new contract. Maybe I was wrong.

I have a problem with the logical conclusion that if Kovy floats, the fallout is as follows: the other players follow suit and float because they are idiots with no capacity of independent thought, the system nobody can identify is abandoned in favor of chaos and almost comical panic play resulting in 48 shots against.

You see, when you blame a single guy for our problems you forgive everybody else. Was Kovy on the ice for every shift that led to 48 shots on goal? There was no effort from the team as a whole but you identify a single guy as our problem. You clearly have an issue with Kovalev and although I have been disappointed in his drop off recently, the teams play has disappointed me much more.

I can't say that at any time this season I felt like we were tough enough to compete. I watch the B's play and if you go after one of theirs you get your ass handed back to you. You can do whatever you want to any of our players and they'll just look on. That is not Kovy's doing it is just that our team doesn't care about each other and do not have each others backs. The team has a serious hole in it but it isn't Kovalev.
I'm tired of trying to explain things to you. Go read my post in the thread where the poll shows that over 60% of the fans here want to see Kovalev traded. You'll see that with your above statements, you're putting words in my mouth that I've never said.

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Old
02-14-2009, 03:40 PM
  #52
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I thought Koivu was good, but Kovalev and Komisarek were pathetic. Kovalev, we know he's a headcase, but I didn't know it was an airborn disease.

Komisarek has turned into Stephane Quintal, only not as tough.

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Old
02-14-2009, 05:21 PM
  #53
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Kovalev floating around on cinder blocks for feet. How the hell anyone can play so piss poor when his linemates are going balls out, shameful. As was much of that game, but man...

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Old
02-14-2009, 06:02 PM
  #54
Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RushDP View Post
They weren't horrid and they weren't great. They were just fine as a line and should stay together for more than a single game to get a proper evaluation. I'll hold off on any final judgement of this line until I have seen them together for 3 games at least. The odds of Carbo keeping any line intact for more than 2 games are not very good though.

If anything the guy that stood out was Kosto for not being able to finish at all. He had so many opportunities that a guy like Pacioretty or D'Agostini would have buried. I understand the logic of having a workhorse on your line but these other two would have worked just as hard and produced more IMO.

That said, you have to love Kosto's work ethic. The only guy on the team that would take a bullet for any team mate.
They weren't fine as you put it. Kostopoulos was the only one who managed shots on net with 4. Kovalev was held shot-less AGAIN.
He was playing half hearted, turned over the puck and was constantly just skating into coverage. As trio they weren't effective at all. Koivu and Kostopoulos worked because they were both willing to dig to create chances.

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Old
02-14-2009, 06:45 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I'm tired of trying to explain things to you. Go read my post in the thread where the poll shows that over 60% of the fans here want to see Kovalev traded. You'll see that with your above statements, you're putting words in my mouth that I've never said.
That's the problem, you never explain yourself. You only make comments and then point to a poll that has nothing to do with your statements as proof you are correct.

You made these assertions:
That Kovalev is in fact influencing the younger players on the team to "float" and that you called the "Kovalev influence". I didn't put those words in your mouth.
You said he has his own agenda but can't explain what that agenda is, much like you said we have a system but can't explain that either.

In a way I almost would like to see Kovalev traded so we can then prove once and for all that he is not the problem. He is a complimentary player with no supporting cast. You guys make it seem like he is paid Vinny type money but for what he is paid he is a bargain. It's time you held the core players of the future accountable instead off some guy that won't be here next season.

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Old
02-14-2009, 06:54 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
They weren't fine as you put it. Kostopoulos was the only one who managed shots on net with 4. Kovalev was held shot-less AGAIN.
He was playing half hearted, turned over the puck and was constantly just skating into coverage. As trio they weren't effective at all. Koivu and Kostopoulos worked because they were both willing to dig to create chances.
What line was better? The entire team blew but Kovalev was the only problem?

Kosto got 3 shots. How do you think he got the puck exactly? There were two instances where Kovy got him the puck...one point blank in the slot and Kosto didn't convert it. I love Kosto and his work ethic but can you put a skilled forward on the top line? Was Koivu, Kovalev and Kosto our top line last night? Would Kosto crack the top six on any other team?

You know all I've read this past few days is how Kovy is the problem, Price is ruined and there is no hope. Ignoring that the underachieving players that should be our core: AKost, SKost, Pleks, Higgins and Komisarek have all sucked or been injured at some point this season.

Keep pinning it on one guy and see how far we go into the playoffs without Kovy. I'm sure all the above mentioned sucking core players are going to miraculously turn it around once Kovalev is gone.

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Old
02-14-2009, 06:58 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by RushDP View Post
That's the problem, you never explain yourself. You only make comments and then point to a poll that has nothing to do with your statements as proof you are correct.

You made these assertions:
That Kovalev is in fact influencing the younger players on the team to "float" and that you called the "Kovalev influence". I didn't put those words in your mouth.
You said he has his own agenda but can't explain what that agenda is, much like you said we have a system but can't explain that either.

In a way I almost would like to see Kovalev traded so we can then prove once and for all that he is not the problem. He is a complimentary player with no supporting cast. You guys make it seem like he is paid Vinny type money but for what he is paid he is a bargain. It's time you held the core players of the future accountable instead off some guy that won't be here next season.
Since you won't go looking for it, here it is:

You know what I find the most frustrating about Kovalev lovers? It's the excuses, the number of times they hang on to straws to try to build their point. It's the rose glasses regarding his on-ice performances instead of seeing him for what he truly is!

Why was he given the "C"? Why does Carbo compliment him? Why are his teammates trying their best to defend him? I'll tell you why! They all tried the hard way two years ago, Carbo, Souray and company. Instead of picking up his socks, he pouted even more. So they're trying to motivate him through positive reinforcement and that's also not working!

Kovalev has had the tag of being an inconsistent player, someone who has an immense talent but simply doesn't provide the necessary effort to shine on a regular basis and that, his entire career!

People were extremely hard on him two years ago and guess what? THEY WERE RIGHT! Why is that? Because he proved them wrong last year! Yes, he showed everyone of what he was capable of doing when putting a decent effort game in, game out and guess what? The results were there for both himself and the team.

So people are hard on him? Well... if he provided the quality of play as he did last year, would we be talking about him right now?

Yes, I forgot, what about his linemates? Two young kids who have greatly benefited from his greatness last year. Coincidence that they're not performing as well this year? I think not! They're carrying a ball and chain on their line just like Plekanec carried two of them two years ago. Yes, Plekanec, the youngster, was struggling until he was finally freed of Samsonov and Kovalev only to become our best producing forward in the second half of that season! Last year? Kovalev played and that line became the team's first line, ahead of Koivu's. Coincidence? Think about it!

Having said all of that, no one here blames everything on Kovalev. The goalies have to stop the puck, the defense needs to play its role and the forwards as a group need to help each other out. No doubt about it. But Kovalev's lovers fail to acknowledge that as Kovy goes, so does the PP, so does his line, and to a point, so does the team! Proof? Last season!

Kovalev went through a stretch of 19-20 games this season without a goal. He then had a few good games and he's back at not producing. Timing? Koivu's back. Why is that I wonder? Disinterest, that's what it is. Pouting because of the "C" or whatever other reason.

We couldn't trade him two years ago because his value was too low and still had two years left to his contract. We couldn't trade him last year because he was too valuable. What's keeping us for trading him now? Nothing! If we got a good young prospect (Gorges) and a first round pick (Pacioretty) for Rivet, I think that we can get at least that for him if not more and out goes the drama queen, in comes the much needed new blood.

Now I've explained that, not in so much length, in the past, so here's hoping that I don't need to re-explain the reasons why I'm so much against Kovalev again. Not a hater, but someone who can see right through that type of individual and someone who likes and appreciates an effort on the ice, as that's what they're getting paid for!

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Old
02-14-2009, 07:52 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Since you won't go looking for it, here it is:

You know what I find the most frustrating about Kovalev lovers? It's the excuses, the number of times they hang on to straws to try to build their point. It's the rose glasses regarding his on-ice performances instead of seeing him for what he truly is!

Why was he given the "C"? Why does Carbo compliment him? Why are his teammates trying their best to defend him? I'll tell you why! They all tried the hard way two years ago, Carbo, Souray and company. Instead of picking up his socks, he pouted even more. So they're trying to motivate him through positive reinforcement and that's also not working!

Kovalev has had the tag of being an inconsistent player, someone who has an immense talent but simply doesn't provide the necessary effort to shine on a regular basis and that, his entire career!

People were extremely hard on him two years ago and guess what? THEY WERE RIGHT! Why is that? Because he proved them wrong last year! Yes, he showed everyone of what he was capable of doing when putting a decent effort game in, game out and guess what? The results were there for both himself and the team.

So people are hard on him? Well... if he provided the quality of play as he did last year, would we be talking about him right now?

Yes, I forgot, what about his linemates? Two young kids who have greatly benefited from his greatness last year. Coincidence that they're not performing as well this year? I think not! They're carrying a ball and chain on their line just like Plekanec carried two of them two years ago. Yes, Plekanec, the youngster, was struggling until he was finally freed of Samsonov and Kovalev only to become our best producing forward in the second half of that season! Last year? Kovalev played and that line became the team's first line, ahead of Koivu's. Coincidence? Think about it!

Having said all of that, no one here blames everything on Kovalev. The goalies have to stop the puck, the defense needs to play its role and the forwards as a group need to help each other out. No doubt about it. But Kovalev's lovers fail to acknowledge that as Kovy goes, so does the PP, so does his line, and to a point, so does the team! Proof? Last season!

Kovalev went through a stretch of 19-20 games this season without a goal. He then had a few good games and he's back at not producing. Timing? Koivu's back. Why is that I wonder? Disinterest, that's what it is. Pouting because of the "C" or whatever other reason.

We couldn't trade him two years ago because his value was too low and still had two years left to his contract. We couldn't trade him last year because he was too valuable. What's keeping us for trading him now? Nothing! If we got a good young prospect (Gorges) and a first round pick (Pacioretty) for Rivet, I think that we can get at least that for him if not more and out goes the drama queen, in comes the much needed new blood.

Now I've explained that, not in so much length, in the past, so here's hoping that I don't need to re-explain the reasons why I'm so much against Kovalev again. Not a hater, but someone who can see right through that type of individual and someone who likes and appreciates an effort on the ice, as that's what they're getting paid for!
You have so much hate that even your statistics don't make sense. You have a very skewed way of viewing events of the past couple of seasons.

There is no point in continuing this debate since clearly we will never agree.

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Old
02-14-2009, 08:08 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by RushDP View Post
You have so much hate that even your statistics don't make sense. You have a very skewed way of viewing events of the past couple of seasons.

There is no point in continuing this debate since clearly we will never agree.
The only statistics I see are the goal-less streaks, and aren't those a little black and white?

Bottom line is Kovalev needs to move his feet and work harder, he was not good at all last night.

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Old
02-14-2009, 08:10 PM
  #60
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I thought they looked good. I'd love to see Kovalev-Koivu-Erik Cole.

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Old
02-14-2009, 09:35 PM
  #61
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by RushDP View Post
What line was better? The entire team blew but Kovalev was the only problem?

Kosto got 3 shots. How do you think he got the puck exactly? There were two instances where Kovy got him the puck...one point blank in the slot and Kosto didn't convert it. I love Kosto and his work ethic but can you put a skilled forward on the top line? Was Koivu, Kovalev and Kosto our top line last night? Would Kosto crack the top six on any other team?

You know all I've read this past few days is how Kovy is the problem, Price is ruined and there is no hope. Ignoring that the underachieving players that should be our core: AKost, SKost, Pleks, Higgins and Komisarek have all sucked or been injured at some point this season.

Keep pinning it on one guy and see how far we go into the playoffs without Kovy. I'm sure all the above mentioned sucking core players are going to miraculously turn it around once Kovalev is gone.
Well since this is a thread regarding Kovalev and Koivu and how it worked, I would tend to focus on this subject.

Once again, we are talking how this line meshed and worked and it didn't work well. We aren't talking about the other lines that didn't work. The OP wanted to know about this specifically thus we talk about it. Kovalev shifts were down in the second and third. Guy loves giving him undeserved ice time and if he benches him, you know Kovalev has to be bad that night.

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02-14-2009, 09:49 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Well since this is a thread regarding Kovalev and Koivu and how it worked, I would tend to focus on this subject.

Once again, we are talking how this line meshed and worked and it didn't work well. We aren't talking about the other lines that didn't work. The OP wanted to know about this specifically thus we talk about it. Kovalev shifts were down in the second and third. Guy loves giving him undeserved ice time and if he benches him, you know Kovalev has to be bad that night.
OK then let's focus on the OP's question: It worked well enough to give it more time. The OP wanted to know if they worked well together and the answer is that they were good together for the first period and then they AND the entire team tanked for the rest of the game. They need more time as do the rest of the lines. Can we say that? Can we ask that the lines not be juggled for a couple of games and assess the lines based on a greater sample than a single game? Is that too far off topic for you?

Kovalev played 10 seconds more than Koivu so if he was benched I have to assume Koivu was as well. They had equal PP time. Kovalev wasn't benched.

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02-14-2009, 09:55 PM
  #63
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both sucked.

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02-14-2009, 10:11 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by RushDP View Post
OK then let's focus on the OP's question: It worked well enough to give it more time. The OP wanted to know if they worked well together and the answer is that they were good together for the first period and then they AND the entire team tanked for the rest of the game. They need more time as do the rest of the lines. Can we say that? Can we ask that the lines not be juggled for a couple of games and assess the lines based on a greater sample than a single game? Is that too far off topic for you?

Kovalev played 10 seconds more than Koivu so if he was benched I have to assume Koivu was as well. They had equal PP time. Kovalev wasn't benched.
I give up with you.

Obviously Koivu getting 16-18 minutes of ice team is different then Kovalev. Kovalev is use to 22 minutes a game and saw but 6 shifts in the third. Thus benched or ice time reduced severely. You are grasping.

The line was okay in the first, again Koivu and Kostopoulos were mainly the ones that worked and Kovalev tanked the rest of the game. If a mediocre period followed by 2/3 of a game of garbage is enough to warrant more time together than we will agree to disagree. That will be all.

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02-14-2009, 10:12 PM
  #65
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both sucked.
yeah for people with no constructive criticism!!!
I must follow suit

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Old
02-14-2009, 10:51 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
I give up with you.

Obviously Koivu getting 16-18 minutes of ice team is different then Kovalev. Kovalev is use to 22 minutes a game and saw but 6 shifts in the third. Thus benched or ice time reduced severely. You are grasping.

The line was okay in the first, again Koivu and Kostopoulos were mainly the ones that worked and Kovalev tanked the rest of the game. If a mediocre period followed by 2/3 of a game of garbage is enough to warrant more time together than we will agree to disagree. That will be all.
LOL!! Sorry buddy, I didn't mean to frustrate you!! I'm just debating...no ill will intended.

We have a huge hole down the middle right now so I see little choice but to keep this line intact. Either way, it has to be given a chance at least for a couple of games.

This will make you happy...the B's last their fourth straight game!!

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