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Old
02-19-2009, 09:17 AM
  #1
jstreet
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The Coaching Debate

Ive never been on the Fire Trotz bandwagon but I think it is time to reconsider my position. I submit to you to items for pondering.

Exhibit A:

In the last 5 or so games straight the Preds have come out with zero energy or enthusiasm. In most of the player and coach interviews you keep hearing the same phrases "we were too busy watching the other team..we were reacting instead of playing our game..etc."

If you come out every night waiting to see what the other team is going to do that is a good sign that either 1] you havent been prepared, 2] you dont have any real game plan, or 3] you don't believe in the game plan or 4] you just really suck, I guess.


Exhibit B: telling quotes from your team captain in the media. A few weeks back Arnott talks about how he wishes Trotz would quit switching up the lines and allow them to gel and then this beauty:

There's no accountability for our penalties, so we're just going to keep doing the same things over and over again,'' Predators captain Jason Arnott said.

Asked what more should be done, Arnott said, "That's not up to me. It's up to the coaching staff to do something. We get into penalty trouble a lot and it's killing us, especially against Detroit.''

TENNESSEAN SOURCE

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Old
02-19-2009, 09:59 AM
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braindead
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Same here. I think it may be time just because its time. I believe Trotz is an excellent coach but it may be time. Pick the wrong replacement and it will be a disaster- just look around the league over the last several years (Ottowa, Pens, CBJ, Toronto, etc, etc.).

I think Arnott is not an optimal captain, though, and his moodiness and leadership style (if he has one) plays a big factor as well.

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02-19-2009, 09:59 AM
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PredsMan
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funny part about the penalties quote, is that a couple years ago I remember Trotz saying there is nothing he can do to deter the useless penalties, and that the accountability had to come from in the room.

Where's the disconnect?

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Old
02-19-2009, 10:17 AM
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jstreet
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Im waiting to see what happens tonight when Arnott commits some ridiculous holding penalty. I hope Trotz sits him the rest of the game.




and then gets fired.


and then we make a bunch of awesome trades.

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Old
02-19-2009, 10:44 AM
  #5
Joe T Choker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnlikestars View Post
Im waiting to see what happens tonight when Arnott commits some ridiculous holding penalty. I hope Trotz sits him the rest of the game.




and then gets fired.


and then we make a bunch of awesome trades.
we are already at the Cap Floor, we must be at the Cap Floor at the end of the season

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Old
02-19-2009, 10:50 AM
  #6
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I think I have one foot firmly planted in the "bring in a new coaching staff" bandwagon and the other foot isn't too far behind. I so think our roster is weak, but I firmly believe Trotz and co. has gotten more out of worse Predator rosters. This looks like a classic case of a coach loosing his voice and presence with his players. I think he has served the Predators very well during his time, but IMO it is just time.

As for Arnott. I have never liked his selection as captain. For a guy his size, he is too soft. In fact the Red Wing broadcast team prior to last night's game call him a finese player. His statements regarding stability of lines completely contradicts his call for the coaching staff to hold players accountable for penalties. The only thing you can take from an NHL player is ice time, which messes with line combinations. So which do you want, accountability or consistent lines?

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Old
02-19-2009, 11:33 AM
  #7
jstreet
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I guess another problem is that nobody on the team really has that "take charge, lead by example, carry the team on their back" attitude. It would do no good to give the C to anybody else, but I agree that Arnott hasnt exactly inspired confidence himself.

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Old
02-19-2009, 12:45 PM
  #8
worstfaceoffmanever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a Killer View Post
we are already at the Cap Floor, we must be at the Cap Floor at the end of the season
No we're not. We're about $5M OVER the salary floor.

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Old
02-19-2009, 01:02 PM
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BigFatCat999
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
No we're not. We're about $5M OVER the salary floor.
And because of that, Nashville could trade a boatload of vets and still be over the cap by about a million.

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Old
02-19-2009, 01:06 PM
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Joe T Choker
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
And because of that, Nashville could trade a boatload of vets and still be over the cap by about a million.
If that's the case, lets kick some **** to the curb!

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Old
02-19-2009, 01:10 PM
  #11
BigFatCat999
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Originally Posted by Dave is a Killer View Post
If that's the case, lets kick some **** to the curb!
Not yet, if the Preds fade towards the deadline then they should. Like I posted in other threads, the last time this team had this many picks in a draft was 2003. Suter, Klein, Weber, Sulzer. It would be a top ten pick with 14 more to follow.

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Old
02-19-2009, 01:38 PM
  #12
vipera1960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
And because of that, Nashville could trade a boatload of vets and still be over the cap by about a million.
They can actually do much better than than. As of Tuesday, the team has already paid $32,084,221 towards the cap minimum of $40,238,710. Since the team has $13,164,808 in salary cap commitments remaining and only needs to spend about $8 million more, they could drop up to about $5 million in remaining salary (about 38% of total payroll). Since everything is prorated that amounts to a full season salary of about $17.3 million.

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Old
02-19-2009, 03:50 PM
  #13
crossxcheck
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I think it's clear that the team doesn't buy into Trotz's system anymore. Is this Trotz's fault? Is this the captain's fault? Is it the entire team's fault? I think they're all partially to blame, but I also think leadership starts from the top. I think Trotz has been fantastic for this organization and he's really gotten a lot out of minimally talented teams. However, his time has passed and we need to move in a different direction IMO.

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Old
02-21-2009, 04:09 AM
  #14
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I don't know that firing Trotz is the answer. This season is obviously a step back from last season, but I think this year is what was supposed to happen last season. But the team banded together and played with the "us against the world" mentality and we made the playoffs so now we expected it again this year.

What would the results be this year if Trotz was fired? Maybe a 5 game win streak followed by the same play after the team came back down to earth.

It's hard to fault the coach when it's been since Feb.12 that anyone other than Legwand/Sullivan has scored a goal.

Who else could even get this much out of a team that has 5 scoring forwards (including one that has only played a month). That's not even 2 full scoring lines. Wonder why we're the lowest scoring team in the West?

If we had more talent, he could do a better job. Look how he did for our 2 "glory years". If Mike Babcock gets the credit for coaching the loaded Wings teams the last 2 years then Trotz gets credit here as well. Craig Leipold set us back 5 years. We had the team where players around the league were taking notice of Nashville and they wanted to play here because we had chances to win the Cup, not just get to the playoffs. Now we're just battling for a playoff spot (or to not finish last). We're paying our "hometown" players but not going out spending on FA's that can help us...yet. It's probably going to be another season until we start doing that.

I agree that I don't see the "take charge, lead by example" player (that should be you Captain Arnott). It seems like everyone is waiting for someone else to do it. Coaches can't motivate the players 24/7, at some point the players have to take some responsibility themselves. (Now maybe Arnott and others have yelled at the players all they could and the message isn't getting through from them anymore. But then I guess that questions the leadership group of the team and that's a whole other argument.)

Valid points are all around for firing Trotz or not, but I don't think anyone else right now would fare any different.

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Old
02-21-2009, 08:44 AM
  #15
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I don't know where I stand, its obvious we lack the talent this year. And even in the 'glory' years I felt with the talent we had we should have gotten out of the 1st round. I also am somewhat disappointed in Poile as well, Yes he can draft d-men no doubt, made a few good trades... and made a few that didn't pan out so well... brought in guys like Ellis and Ward that are good players for cheap. But also signed mediocre players to high salary contracts when we need all the dollars we can.

Alot of this is Leiopolds fault no doubt, they were hamstrung. Then Radulov took off... and the Boots thing came out of nowhere...

Part of me says yeah its time for change. Why not pilfer off the redwings staff... or some young energetic up and coming coach and buyout Trotzy. I think we could afford that... But there are some good things about stability as well.

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Old
02-21-2009, 10:26 AM
  #16
darth5
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I think Coach Trotz has worn thin on this bunch. It is not to say he has not done everything HE could. Just this: short of a near-complete teardown and player swapout, I believe a coach has an expiration date with a group of veterans. Only coach with a longer tenure is Lindy Ruff. How many players on that roster have been there more than 2-3 years? Same story in all pro sports leagues.

I also think, in almost any other club in the league where the ownership is not new and totally dependent on the GM, Trotz would already be fired.

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Old
02-23-2009, 11:22 AM
  #17
jstreet
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Rangers Fire Coach Tom TSN

see, it isnt that hard. Your team sucks, you make changes.

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Old
02-23-2009, 11:56 AM
  #18
Paranoid Android
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnlikestars View Post
Rangers Fire Coach Tom TSN

see, it isnt that hard. Your team sucks, you make changes.
yeah, cause our team oozing with the kind of talent they have

let me ask everyone a question. what happens if we fire Trotz and then totally crap the bed next year? would you still think it was worth it?

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Old
02-23-2009, 12:28 PM
  #19
Joe T Choker
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Originally Posted by Predanerd View Post
yeah, cause our team oozing with the kind of talent they have

let me ask everyone a question. what happens if we fire Trotz and then totally crap the bed next year? would you still think it was worth it?
YES ... a Trotz coached team has yet to 1) win a playoff series ... 2) win a playoff road game (just one) 3) failure to adjust when other coach makes adjustments

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Old
02-23-2009, 12:46 PM
  #20
worstfaceoffmanever
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Originally Posted by burnlikestars View Post
Rangers Fire Coach Tom TSN

see, it isnt that hard. Your team sucks, you make changes.
Makes me wish we'd lost to the Leafs instead of shutting them out...

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