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Trade proposal Montreal - Vancouver

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Old
08-19-2004, 03:12 PM
  #176
Rscorpio
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Quote:
Personnaly I'd do Zednik for Cooke.



ok lets get **** whit no vaseline


Cmon Zed is a top 6 foward : 30 Goals/season

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Old
08-19-2004, 03:23 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
Cooke, Allen, Malik, Sopel, Salo, Ruutu, and May are all guys whom I think would help the Habs are are hardly elite.

That said, I don't see the Habs having much that the Canucks could really want outside of two men: Zednik and Theodore. Both likely would cost an arm and a leg.
The Habs need offence and I don't see anyone exept for the elite players on your team (Bertuzzi, Naslund, Morrison, Jovonoski) and the sedin twins who could help the Habs in that department. The habs need good (50points) wingers or a great offensive player like Kovalev. Understand?????

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Old
08-19-2004, 04:07 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
Cooke, Allen, Malik, Sopel, Salo, Ruutu, and May are all guys whom I think would help the Habs are are hardly elite.

That said, I don't see the Habs having much that the Canucks could really want outside of two men: Zednik and Theodore. Both likely would cost an arm and a leg.

There aren't many teams that May could help, and several of the otyher players you mention (Ruutu, Malik, Sopel) are fairly marginal in their roles. The Habs could do better in a deal.

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Old
08-19-2004, 04:36 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rscorpio



ok lets get **** whit no vaseline


Cmon Zed is a top 6 foward : 30 Goals/season
Cooke is a special and rare kind of player, much more so than Zednik who I like a lot too. Nobody would get screwed in such a deal. It addresses needs. And the Habs need to add toughness which they lack. As I said, if Kovalev re-signed, I feel the Habs could afford to let go Zednik in order to acquire a bit more toughness, and not the kind that only plays a marginal role on the 4th line.

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Old
08-19-2004, 05:02 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
Cooke is a special and rare kind of player, much more so than Zednik who I like a lot too. Nobody would get screwed in such a deal. It addresses needs. And the Habs need to add toughness which they lack. As I said, if Kovalev re-signed, I feel the Habs could afford to let go Zednik in order to acquire a bit more toughness, and not the kind that only plays a marginal role on the 4th line.

I completely agree with you about Cooke. He is the sort of guy who wins games for you. One of my favorite players in the NHL. Could help any team.

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Old
08-19-2004, 05:21 PM
  #181
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value wise it's a good trade (Zednik for Cooke)... the canucks probably win out too..

but I would never do this trade.

Cooke brings us something that no other player on our team does... he excels at the PK, brings grit, is one of the top agitators still in the game... can play top 4-5 minutes, brings a level of energy that is unmatched on our team, and a whole boatload of other intangibles, from being able to play every forward position to special teams, etc...

he is now also a leader on this team.

Any team that wants Cooke would have to seriously overpay for him... the fans would hate seeing him go, almost as much as Crow would... or management.

he is the perfect team guy... without him our team would lose half the heart they have!

While Zednik is a good player and much more reliable for offensive production than Cooke is, there is no way I'd ever consider this deal.

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Old
08-19-2004, 06:19 PM
  #182
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I think Zednik's value is higher than Cooke's. What would it take for you guys to throw in Allen?

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08-19-2004, 07:01 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
There aren't many teams that May could help, and several of the otyher players you mention (Ruutu, Malik, Sopel) are fairly marginal in their roles. The Habs could do better in a deal.
Ruutu, Sopel, and Malik may be 'marginal in their roles', but they sure would add some much-needed depth to a thin forward & defensive corps in Montreal. Ruutu would add a physical edge with the ability to keep the other team honest in regards to cheap shots. Sopel I don't see a big need on the Habs, but his offensive game is anything but marginal. Malik is a depth defenseman who goes about his job with little fan-fare but a whole lot of results.

The Habs could do better in a deal? Sure, but they'd probobly have to give up one of their better players to get something like, say, a Brendan Morrow or a Eric Cole (just picked some names out of a hat, settle down M=G!).

In regards to Cooke for Zednik, yes I'd make that deal, only because I really think very, very highly of Zednik.

As for Allen, I hope he doesn't go anywhere. I value him quite highly personally, and feel he will be a top 3 defenseman for the Canucks sometime soon.

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Old
08-19-2004, 08:32 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
Ruutu, Sopel, and Malik may be 'marginal in their roles', but they sure would add some much-needed depth to a thin forward & defensive corps in Montreal. Ruutu would add a physical edge with the ability to keep the other team honest in regards to cheap shots. Sopel I don't see a big need on the Habs, but his offensive game is anything but marginal. Malik is a depth defenseman who goes about his job with little fan-fare but a whole lot of results.
Not sure I agree with you about the thin depth of the Habs on defence or offence. The Habs don't have huge superstars, but if there's something the team has now it's depth... everywhere. Especially if even just one rookie forward can crack the lineup next year.

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Old
08-19-2004, 09:34 PM
  #185
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ok i dont get it?


we (Habs) are not a offensive team.This is why we are trying to sign
Alexei Kovalev (real scorer).

whit ur logic : Kovalev in ( ? 30 goals ? )
Zed out ( 25-30 Goals)

Dont forget : Perreault is out next season.

Whats the Point? How can we be better whit ur trade?

IMO Cooke = Begin

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Old
08-19-2004, 09:46 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rscorpio
IMO Cooke = Begin
when Begin leads his team in +/-, places in the top-10 in Selke voting, becomes one of the games most leathal short handed threats, scores 40+ points playing 14 minutes a game, consistantly places at the top of the league in hitting, gets mention from other players as the best forechecker in the game, becomes known for scoring clutch goals, and seemlessly fits into one of the league most dominant lines when called upon.... then we'll compare him to Cooke.

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Old
08-19-2004, 09:50 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaVal575
when Begin leads his team in +/-, places in the top-10 in Selke voting, becomes one of the games most leathal short handed threats, scores 40+ points playing 14 minutes a game, consistantly places at the top of the league in hitting, gets mention from other players as the best forechecker in the game, becomes known for scoring clutch goals, and seemlessly fits into one of the league most dominant lines when called upon.... then we'll compare him to Cooke.
Yeah... Begin isn't even close.

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Old
08-19-2004, 10:05 PM
  #188
Munchausen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rscorpio
IMO Cooke = Begin
That's plain ridiculous.

As for your math logic, I'll just say that evaluating a team as a whole means more than additions and substractions.

A Bulis - Bonk - Cooke combo would have the potential to become one of the best 3rd lines in the NHL (a line that is the key to Julien's defensive system), while we would still have enough fire power (Ryder, Koivu, Ribeiro, Kovalev + 2 of Perezhogin, Higgins, Dagenais, Plekanec, Hossa and Kostitsyn) to put 2 effective scoring lines on a nightly basis.

As it stands, it's my opinion that the Habs do not have enough toughness on the top-3 lines, hence this Zednik - Cooke trade idea.


Last edited by Munchausen: 08-20-2004 at 01:00 AM.
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Old
08-20-2004, 02:13 AM
  #189
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While I agree that a Zednik for Cooke deal would be somewhat fair for both teams, neither team would be overly excited to do it. Zednik is very important for the habs and the same goes for Cooke on his team. Sure Zednik probably has more value but it cant be undermined what Cooke brings to the table as well. Any team would love to have either of these players. As a habs fan, though its close I would choose Zednik over Cooke for Montreal. I feel that the addition of Bonk helps solidify our third line and we cannot afford to lose a top 6 forward, let alone our best goal scorer besides Kovalev (if he does resign).

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Old
08-20-2004, 02:26 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
I agree with you that the jersey-selling arguement is a stupid one. Besides, jersey sales outside of GM Place go directly to the league anyways.

However, let us ask ourselves this: Does this make the Canucks a better team? This is the foremost question on my mind here, and I personally think it does not. Why?

Well, I guess it boils down to this: Bertuzzi's ability to change a game. Not only does he change a game, but he changes the outlook of an entire series. What do you think is a coaches first priority about facing the Canucks in a playoff series? Probobly shutting down Todd Bertuzzi. Same goes for any given game. He is the guy that teams focus on, and he is the guy who allows Naslund the room to work his magic. Make no mistake, Naslund is the straw that stirs the drink in Vancouver, but Bertuzzi is the man that coaches key on.

Can Richard Zednik make even half the impact Bertuzzi can in a game? I personally don't think so, and I absolutely *LOVE* Richard Zednik, as some Habs fans can attest to on this board. Markov will be a hell of a player for years, but Bertuzzi gives the Canucks a supreme physical physical forward, probobly the most physical scoring-line forward in the league right now, and that edge is almost impossible to understate, particularly when the rest of the top 6 is made up of Naslund, Morrison, and the Sedin twins, hardly the toughest customers around (there is a missing spot there, I suspect it'll be filled by Jason King. Gritty performer, but hardly a tough guy).


I think alot of Zednik too but the fact is, when on his game Bertuzzi is simply one of the hardest forwards in the league to shut down. The Canucks should not, and will not, trade away an impact player like him without getting one in return. Not now at least. He isn't a money issue yet.

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