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Pit Tor / Pit Mtl

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Old
02-20-2009, 11:40 PM
  #1
Alex28*
 
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Pit Tor / Pit Mtl

To Pit
------
Blake
Kulemin
Ponikarovsky
Kovalev

To Tor
------
Whitney
Satan
Eaton
1st (or 2nd, if 1st is too much. Personally I don't think it is given Kulemin coming back)
4th 2010


To MTL
--------
Cooke (or Dupuis), Fedotenko, 3rd

Why Toronto does it
----------------------
Securing a good young puckmover in Whitney helps advance their rebuild. The draft picks are self explanatory. Also, if they cheaply resign Satan and give him 1st line minutes it ensures an extra year of tankage, so they can draft the next Ovechkin in Kabanov who will propel them to the Cup. Eaton is a salary dump, but walks after this year. They probably wanna lose Blake's contract, Kulemin shows a good amount of promise but doesn't seem like the type of guy to thrive in Burke's system, and Ponikarovsky doesn't seem like a guy they want to build around and could be shipped out for a decent return.

Why Pittsburgh does it
-------------------------
This trade helps Pittsburgh in the present, the near future, and long term, even if it's possible they're giving up more value-wise (which I personally don't believe). If you surround superstar centers with crap you'll get mediocre results. If you surround them with legitimate 1st and 2nd line wingers you'll get good results. Blake may be somewhat overpaid, but could be a 2nd line winger on any NHL team except Boston and San Jose, and a 1st liner on a decent amount of teams. He can finish decently, is fast and very fit for his age, plays an aggressive game and has the skills to benefit from playing with Crosby. They seem to be the type of players that would click well together. Ponikarovsky is signed for this and next season for Sykora money, has 5 points less than Sykora despite playing on a crappier team with a center much worse than Malkin (no ****), and is a +6 on a team which allows the most goals in the league. Plays a good two way game, can finish, goes to the net, has a large body and can get physical if he has to. Kulemin has the potential to become a very good sniper for Pittsburgh in the future even if he needs more development.

Kovalev's price is rock bottom right now, he's considered a failure yet he's still 3rd in points on the team with 39. That should say just how high expectations are of him. He's money in the playoffs (check his stats), very skilled, good finisher. Montreal gets a 3rd rounder back as well as Fedotenko, who'd bring the grit they badly lack and isn't a bad scorer himself (if not top 6 material), and Dupuis for a good 3rd line contract.

Pittsburgh also doesn't really become a weaker team with Whitney leaving, and there are plenty of guys to take his place (Gonchar, Letang, Goligoski).

So, for now Pittsburgh would have

Ponikarovsky Malkin Kovalev
Blake Crosby Sykora
Kulemin Staal Kennedy
Thomas Talbot Cooke (or Dupuis, depending on who MTL wants. Godard when going up against really dirty teams).

Gonchar Orpik
Goligoski Scuderi
Letang Gill

Which should be a good enough lineup to not only get Pittsburgh into the playoffs but make them a tough opponent to play against. If Kovalev plays lights out he could be resigned cheaper next year. If they don't want him, Kulemin's right there to keep the top 6 competitive cheaply.


Last edited by Alex28*: 02-21-2009 at 12:19 AM.
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Old
02-21-2009, 12:03 AM
  #2
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1st, 4th and Whitney... Toronto does that in a heartbeat.

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02-21-2009, 12:07 AM
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Pardon my ignorance but who the **** is Bouchard?

Guess you mean Dupuis?

No from the Habs, rather hope that Kovy breaks out of his slump than add spare parts.

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02-21-2009, 12:08 AM
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Pardon my ignorance but who the **** is Bouchard?
Boucher. Good catch.

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02-21-2009, 12:10 AM
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JesusBouillon
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Boucher. Good catch.
We just got Schneider to play that exact same role... Even more no than before.

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02-21-2009, 12:11 AM
  #6
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How much longer is Blake signed for, I don't really like him much but I can appreciate that he would be a significant upgrade to the wing situation, but the Pens won't want to be on the hook for his deal for any reasonable length of time I would think. We are in no position to be taking on guys who are overpaid and making that kind of money whether they are a winger or not. Sure we are shedding salary in Satan, but he is gone in the offseason anyway. Also not very keen on the 1st going anywhere, that seems to be the general consensus from what I have read here.

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02-21-2009, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by JesusBouillon View Post
We just got Schneider to play that exact same role... Even more no than before.
Yeah, Dupuis would be more worthwhile to Montreal

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02-21-2009, 12:12 AM
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You forgot Cooke in your Penguin lineup...


Yeah Idk if Montreal would want Boucher....


They'd probably go more for Gill....

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Old
02-21-2009, 12:15 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
How much longer is Blake signed for, I don't really like him much but I can appreciate that he would be a significant upgrade to the wing situation, but the Pens won't want to be on the hook for his deal for any reasonable length of time I would think. We are in no position to be taking on guys who are overpaid and making that kind of money whether they are a winger or not.
3 more years after this one. The thing about Blake is he should be able to contribute constantly throughout his contract since he's about as fit as Brind'Amour and has a decent set of skills. His last 2 years are at 3 million.

I can't see Penguins bringing in 4 wingers that would be better than Blake over the next 2 years. In his last year, possibly. So he'd be a fixture on the top 6 barring a meltdown.

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02-21-2009, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeod1986 View Post
You forgot Cooke in your Penguin lineup...


Yeah Idk if Montreal would want Boucher....


They'd probably go more for Gill....
Yeah I switched that to Cooke or Dupuis. Montreal does have a logjam at D now.

I think it's possible they'd want Cooke, since they are a pretty soft team.

Kovalev for Cooke, Fedotenko and a 3rd would be a very good deal for MTL imo. Penguins as well.

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02-21-2009, 12:19 AM
  #11
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Yeah, Dupuis would be more worthwhile to Montreal
Understand that we have many forwards who can play just as good as Dupuis or Fedotenko, forward depth is really not a problem when it comes to second-3rd line type players. I imagine Bob would want either prospects and/or picks for Kovalev or a player that would definitely improve over what we already have.

As I said, I'd rather keep Kovalev and hope he breaks out of his slump as we have a much better chance to go far if we gamble on him than if we trade him for guys like Fedotenko and Dupuis.

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02-21-2009, 12:20 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Yeah I switched that to Dupuis. Montreal does have a logjam at D now.

I think it's possible they'd want Cooke, since they are a pretty soft team.


Yeah, not a bad proposal though, but what I can't get enough of is all the rumors/proposals of the Penguins getting guys like Blake/Cole/Kovalchuk who all have had some hot heat with us in the past...

Could Blake and Crosby just forget about the spearing incident? I just fear that Blake is so streaky and older, it'd def be a dice roller

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02-21-2009, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JesusBouillon View Post
Understand that we have many forwards who can play just as good as Dupuis or Fedotenko, forward depth is really not a problem when it comes to second-3rd line type players. I imagine Bob would want either prospects and/or picks for Kovalev or a player that would definitely improve over what we already have.

As I said, I'd rather keep Kovalev and hope he breaks out of his slump as we have a much better chance to go far if we gamble on him than if we trade him for guys like Fedotenko and Dupuis.
From what I've been hearing it seems like Gainey can't wait to toss him out of MTL. That could just be the media being overzealous, though.

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02-21-2009, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
3 more years after this one. The thing about Blake is he should be able to contribute constantly throughout his contract since he's about as fit as Brind'Amour and has a decent set of skills. His last 2 years are at 3 million.

I can't see Penguins bringing in 4 wingers that would be better than Blake over the next 2 years. In his last year, possibly. So he'd be a fixture on the top 6 barring a meltdown.
I think they would be more inclined to see what they could get in free agency + what they could get in a smaller deal based around Whitney before wanting to take on that length of a contract. Assuming Sykora gets resigned, which atm most signs would point to that being the case, we find one pretty good winger via free agency and get another one in return for Whitney then suddenly the wing situation isn't so bad.

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02-21-2009, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
From what I've been hearing it seems like Gainey can't wait to toss him out of MTL. That could just be the media being overzealous, though.
Apparently he's been talking trades for 2 weeks now but if Kovy's still in Montreal it's probably because other GMs only offered spare parts... like you.

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02-21-2009, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeod1986 View Post
Yeah, not a bad proposal though, but what I can't get enough of is all the rumors/proposals of the Penguins getting guys like Blake/Cole/Kovalchuk who all have had some hot heat with us in the past...

Could Blake and Crosby just forget about the spearing incident? I just fear that Blake is so streaky and older, it'd def be a dice roller
I'm pretty sure they made up at the all star game last year.

Blake is streaky, but if Pittsburgh has Antropov and Kovalev/Kulemin for next year in top 6 spots they should be doing adequately even if he goes on a cold streak. A hot streak would put them over the top. If Kovalev does well I'd think it would be worth it to resign him.

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02-21-2009, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeod1986 View Post
Yeah, not a bad proposal though, but what I can't get enough of is all the rumors/proposals of the Penguins getting guys like Blake/Cole/Kovalchuk who all have had some hot heat with us in the past...

Could Blake and Crosby just forget about the spearing incident? I just fear that Blake is so streaky and older, it'd def be a dice roller
I would think Sid couldn't care less, he is professional enough to focus on the benefits of having a good winger next to him rather than holding some sort of grudge.

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02-21-2009, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JesusBouillon View Post
Understand that we have many forwards who can play just as good as Dupuis or Fedotenko, forward depth is really not a problem when it comes to second-3rd line type players. I imagine Bob would want either prospects and/or picks for Kovalev or a player that would definitely improve over what we already have.

As I said, I'd rather keep Kovalev and hope he breaks out of his slump as we have a much better chance to go far if we gamble on him than if we trade him for guys like Fedotenko and Dupuis.


If that's what your looking for the Pens and Canadiens could maybe work something straight up...


I'd like to see something along the lines of....


To Montreal:

Jordan Staal

Miroslav Satan

Hal Gill

Kevin Veilleux (forward prospect)

Dustin Jeffrey (forward prospect)

1st in 09


To Pittsburgh:

Alex Kovalev

Andre Kostitsyn

Sergei Kostitsyn

PK Subban

4th in 2010

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02-21-2009, 12:25 AM
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I would think Sid couldn't care less, he is professional enough to focus on the benefits of having a good winger next to him rather than holding some sort of grudge.


Let's be honest, If I'm Sid, I want someone a little better than Jason Blake...


Although I'm sure he'd take just about anything right now...


I'd almost rather have Stempniak and a late round pick than Blake

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02-21-2009, 12:25 AM
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Apparently he's been talking trades for 2 weeks now but if Kovy's still in Montreal it's probably because other GMs only offered spare parts... like you.
So what exactly does a 35 year old player who was told to take a hike by his team fetch on the open market?

Fedotenko and Cooke combined have more points than Kovalev and bring aspects to the game that he lacks almost completely.

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02-21-2009, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
I'm pretty sure they made up at the all star game last year.

Blake is streaky, but if Pittsburgh has Antropov and Kovalev/Kulemin for next year in top 6 spots they should be doing adequately even if he goes on a cold streak. A hot streak would put them over the top. If Kovalev does well I'd think it would be worth it to resign him.
I have read lots of people for and against Kovy coming back to the Pens, what it really burns down to for me though is how much money he is going to expect and what other people are prepared to pay.

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02-21-2009, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeod1986 View Post
Let's be honest, If I'm Sid, I want someone a little better than Jason Blake...


Although I'm sure he'd take just about anything right now...


I'd almost rather have Stempniak and a late round pick than Blake
Yes for sure Sid would love someone better than Blake, but if Blake was on the Pens his line of thinking imo would be more a long the lines of well this is something I can try work with compared to the junk he has spent most of his career with, rather than what is this ***** doing here. Blake isn't amazing, but he is a huge upgrade compared to what Sid has had to play with, he is at least a guy who can fit in the top six rather than a 3rd/4th liner playing with Sid in hopes that some magic chemistry is going to turn them into a better player.

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02-21-2009, 12:28 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
So what exactly does a 35 year old player who was told to take a hike by his team fetch on the open market?
Not enough to get traded apparently.

Quote:
Fedotenko and Cooke combined have more points than Kovalev and bring aspects to the game that he lacks almost completely
And Kovalev brings elite talent, something the Habs desperately lack.

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02-21-2009, 12:29 AM
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Yes for sure Sid would love someone better than Blake, but if Blake was on the Pens his line of thinking imo would be more a long the lines of well this is something I can try work with compared to the junk he has spent most of his career with, rather than what is this ***** doing here.


I think Stempniak is a very similar player to Blake, but younger....


But yeah I'm sure he'd be content with a groundhog on skates if they could finish plays

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02-21-2009, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeod1986 View Post
Let's be honest, If I'm Sid, I want someone a little better than Jason Blake...


Although I'm sure he'd take just about anything right now...


I'd almost rather have Stempniak and a late round pick than Blake
Yeah, but if you're sid you're playing with Satan and Dupuis. Blake is a godsend compared to those.

Sid doesn't need a star winger. He needs someone who can keep up with him most of the time, can finish, be somewhat competent at getting open and creating their own chances, and have some creativity. Blake satisfied all those requirements on an average day, goes above and beyond on a good day.

Look at Blake's performances when he's tearing it up. Hat trick against the Canes, recent dismembering of the Penguins, etc. When he's hot he plays like a 6 million player. When he's not he plays like a 2 million player. If he's paired with Crosby and another competent forward he'll be hot far more often than he is in Toronto.

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