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02-21-2009, 11:53 AM
  #776
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Originally Posted by MONACOBLUE View Post
...something that he can definitely afford...
A lot of people don't know this but back in Belarus the Kostitsyn family is very wealthy/rich. I don't think it's wise for anyone to presume that Sergei was in this for money or kickbacks etc. Why would he bother since the family is loaded???

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02-21-2009, 11:56 AM
  #777
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Yeah...They don't have enough proof to publish it so instead, they'll just hint at it and make things 500 times worse.



I absolutely agree that this all started because of the Cancun party pictures. I'm positive. The rest, is all hearsay from "friend of a bartender" or other third hand sources.

The media in this city is nothing short of pathetic.

PATHETIC.

They are a disgrace to journalism. They're nothing more than celebrity chasers like on TMZ.
This can't be serious? they're buddies with CRIMINALS. That's not the press's fault, it's Kostitsyns and Hamrliks fault only

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02-21-2009, 11:58 AM
  #778
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This can't be serious? they're buddies with CRIMINALS. That's not the press's fault, it's Kostitsyns and Hamrliks fault only
so, we should arrest Every friend of every single criminal in town

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02-21-2009, 12:01 PM
  #779
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This can't be serious? they're buddies with CRIMINALS. That's not the press's fault, it's Kostitsyns and Hamrliks fault only
LOL, that guy wouldn't be a criminal if society didn't feel the need to protect us from ourselves/tell us what to do. It's not like people are forced to take drugs against their will.

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02-21-2009, 12:03 PM
  #780
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This can't be serious? they're buddies with CRIMINALS. That's not the press's fault, it's Kostitsyns and Hamrliks fault only
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the speculation that this is "the tip of the iceberg."

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02-21-2009, 12:06 PM
  #781
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This can't be serious? they're buddies with CRIMINALS. That's not the press's fault, it's Kostitsyns and Hamrliks fault only
damn, I should be locked up in jail for a very long time... In college I use to sit next to a drug dealer in my math class... we even exchanged our numbers for a school project... I should turn my self in.

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02-21-2009, 12:08 PM
  #782
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damn, I should be locked up in jail for a very long time... In college I use to sit next to a drug dealer in my math class... we even exchanged our numbers for a school project... I should turn my self in.
just what I was about to post!!


It happened to me too!

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02-21-2009, 12:14 PM
  #783
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This whole thing is a joke.


But I'd really like to read what some people who are defending the young players had to say about Theo and Ribeiro because as far as the speculation goes, it's pretty much the same.

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02-21-2009, 12:20 PM
  #784
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yeah! come with me, and lets go find drug dealers that accept credit cards!
I thought it was evident enough...

The now common procedure, as confirmed from my friends policemen, is that there is no money involved. You give your credit card to the guy (most of the time it's a second or third credit card). Then, everytime you want something illegal from him (prostitute, drug, etc.), instead of giving money, the guy buy something with your credit card for himself, or directly takes money from it like you can do with some credit cards. For him, it's exactly like being paid since he buys stuff he would have buy anyway (or he can even sell the stuff after), for himself of for gifts, etc. Then later that month, the card owner (or the agent for most of the players) pays the bill like a regular bill, supposedly used to buy electronics and stuff... Is that so hard to understand? We're not talking about a dealer accepting credit cards!!!!

The idea behind this is that, first, the "money" is cleaned. And second, since there is no transaction, there is no evidence of "money-for-drug" transaction in an eventual trial. In fact, more often than not, there is not enough evidence to even go in a trial.

Now I never said that was what happended with the bros. I'm just stating it is common procedure with "high-end dealers".

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02-21-2009, 12:24 PM
  #785
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When they say there should be other things coming out in the next days, I'm sure they talk about Jean Perron appearance at TLM en Parle.

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02-21-2009, 12:25 PM
  #786
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I thought it was evident enough...

The now common procedure, as confirmed from my friends policemen, is that there is no money involved. You give your credit card to the guy (most of the time it's a second or third credit card). Then, everytime you want something illegal from him (prostitute, drug, etc.), instead of giving money, the guy buy something with your credit card for himself, or directly takes money from it like you can do with some credit cards. For him, it's exactly like being paid since he buys stuff he would have buy anyway (or he can even sell the stuff after), for himself of for gifts, etc. Then later that month, the card owner (or the agent for most of the players) pays the bill like a regular bill, supposedly used to buy electronics and stuff... Is that so hard to understand? We're not talking about a dealer accepting credit cards!!!!

The idea behind this is that, first, the "money" is cleaned. And second, since there is no transaction, there is no evidence of "money-for-drug" transaction in an eventual trial. In fact, more often than not, there is not enough evidence to even go in a trial.

Now I never said that was what happended with the bros. I'm just stating it is common procedure with "high-end dealers".

i have yet to find credit cards you can withdraw money with

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02-21-2009, 12:26 PM
  #787
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Are you now going to make the case that La Presse did this to stop it BEFORE it became an issue for the team? Don't make it seem like any kind of responsible journalism it is nothing but tabloid irresponsible garbage with nothing but malice intended.

I'm pretty sure the cops would have come forward if they had any evidence that the Bros or the organization were in any danger at all.
...I was only refering to posters who don't think there is a news there. And I do think La Presse, as a newspaper, did a good job of sticking to the facts. Now, it is possible that some of their reporters, outside the newspaper (on tv shows), used what was "unsaid" to feed the rumor mild. That's sad. But I still think the Lapresse Trio and Boisvert columns (that I just read after my mails) are good journalism.

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02-21-2009, 12:26 PM
  #788
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This whole thing is a joke.
I couldn't agree more......

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02-21-2009, 12:27 PM
  #789
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i have yet to find credit cards you can withdraw money with
Poor you. In french, it is called "avance de fond". I used that quite often in the past.

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02-21-2009, 12:29 PM
  #790
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Poor you. In french, it is called "avance de fond". I used that quite often in the past.
the fact is, when you do those, it still leaves a trace with an adress and aI don't think its really intelligent for a drug dealer to leave traces like that

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02-21-2009, 12:32 PM
  #791
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When they say there should be other things coming out in the next days, I'm sure they talk about Jean Perron appearance at TLM en Parle.
we aren't gonna be hearing much else at all im guessing. We'll never get the full story about the brothers or the others story of alleged excessive partying. won't be the first time we don't get the full story nor will it be the last. Better off for the organization this way anyhow even though knowing the big picture is always nice.
the problem with not getting the full story is it also makes people speculate which can get out of hand as we've seen.
Tough situation but im pretty sure this will a non story by this time next week.

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02-21-2009, 12:33 PM
  #792
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the fact is, when you do those, it still leaves a trace with an adress and aI don't think its really intelligent for a drug dealer to leave traces like that
I see you're absolutly not getting what's going on with the procedure...

It's not the dealer who left a trace. It's "the-name-on-the-card". That's the whole story, but I see you don't get it. What's wrong about taking out money? The bill is paid at the end of the month anyway, that's the deal and everybody agree. There is nothing illegal, so why wondering about the tracing?

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02-21-2009, 12:46 PM
  #793
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I see you're absolutly not getting what's going on with the procedure...

It's not the dealer who left a trace. It's "the-name-on-the-card". That's the whole story, but I see you don't get it. What's wrong about taking out money? The bill is paid at the end of the month anyway, that's the deal and everybody agree. There is nothing illegal, so why wondering about the tracing?
Because even though you can't use it in a prosecution an electronic trail of any kind can be used by the police to catch you. If you can find out who's credit card they're using, you can track drug dealers like this.

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02-21-2009, 12:49 PM
  #794
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La Presse just stated that the brothers (and Hammer to a lesser extend) had regular links to that guy... Nothing else.

Now. Of course there is no evidence about anything else, and maybe there is nothing else, but I'm amazed how naive or blinded are some posters around here. Such link, if not dangerous right now, is opening the door to pretty serious stuff and it is big news -- that's why the NHL is sending its people in Montreal to investigate.

I mean c'mon! The guy they're linked to is not a small street bum selling drug to students for their party. We're talking about a guy illegaly carrying a gun, fighting with policemen, making deal with 2 big organized street gangs and the Hells Angels, talking in place of the emprisonned chief of one of this gang. It's big. He's the kinda of guy easily capable of having you killed or anything else.

Now, there is maybe nothing else. Probaby. But it is big news. Being linked to such guy is being overly exposed to extorsion, menaces, being "asked" to slow down on the ice, being paid for info, being "asked" of carrying drugs at the boarders, being "asked" to offer steroids, having your family threaten in East Europe, etc. At least, it's having the hand on a dangerous door to open. If anything, it's a good thing the story went out before anything else inexorably start... Because it is inevitable once you enter there.

I'm amazed of such denial. And by the way, it's absolutly true, confirmed by 2 friends policemen (one federal! and one working on street gangs!): giving your credit card to such guy is the common procedure to make deals while never being vulnerable to pursuit since there is never money-for-drug exchange. That's so much cliche that when it happens, police know that they have to dig around the guy who has the credit card. It's the way it works. Now did the bros reach that level of transaction? Or was it going to be a next step? Or were they going to be black mailed? Or anything? We'll probably never know, but something would have happen, because something always happen in those circumstances. Always.
I'm amazed by how over panicking you are.

I've been partying for a very long time. I've been part of what many could consider the ''jet set'' lifestyle.

Let me tell you something, it is INCREDIBLY easy for young rich FAMOUS bachelors to meet people.
The Kost broz didn't know this guy from back in Russia or wherever. They probably met this guy in a club.

You know, when Habs players go somewhere, they usually tell the manager, if not the owner, of the place that they'll be coming so they can be well taken cared off.
Once they get there, they get in right away, and there's somebody to make sure they get whatever it is they need instantly. It's like that for any celebrity.

I've seen the Kost broz with Markov and Ovechkin partying it up in the middle of the club with bouncers around them. I've seen groupies brought up to Komi's and the rest of the hab's tables.

I mean, it's just how things work buddy.

Now, what I think truly happened is this guy was introduced to them as the guy that could hooked them up with anything and everything. As most, young, foreign and rich kid would do, you just accept and don't really bother asking question. You just ride the wave of happiness and being well taken cared off.

Maybe they scored dope, maybe they got hooked up with escorts, so freaking what?..are we THAT naive to believe athletes don't party like crazy?..
I don't remember when, maybe 80's or 90's, but at some point the whole Steelers's defensive line was partying in Miami at a house party of one of the biggest cocaine smuggler during his era (Reference: Cocaine Cowboys). They were all high up on yayo the day before the Superbowl. They obviously lost, but it's just to say, everybody does it.
Does this mean the whole defensive line should be prosecuted??..of course not. Don't even think this story was ever made public.

Now, the Kost broz aren't accused of anything. Their wire tap conversations were dismissed. There wasn't any signs/evidence of the Kost broz taking part of any criminal activities. So, all in all, they just knew a guy that hooked them up whenever they wanted something. BIG WHOOP!..
In no way does it justify the whole ridiculous zoo we've been seeing these past days. If I were them I'd even ask for an apology from the Press for running such a story before getting all the facts.
They're certainly entitled to some type of compensation because their reputation has been crippled.

I'm not naive, because I know and seen how things work. This story is junk, just pure junk.
All it is, is a couple of local stars getting introduced to some guy with connections. It stays very limited. To say it's the doorway to a life full of sins and bad things, that it's just the beginning, is over panicking.


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Old
02-21-2009, 12:57 PM
  #795
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Because even though you can't use it in a prosecution an electronic trail of any kind can be used by the police to catch you. If you can find out who's credit card they're using, you can track drug dealers like this.
So what? Let's say it's your card that is used by the dealer (with your agreement).

The tracing would be (example) : Monacoblue withdrwawn xxx$ at the xyz guichet at the date zzz.

What's wrong with that? It becomes a "tracing" only if you say that someone stole your card before that date. Are you gonna say that?

And since you would be agreeing with the dealer to let him used your card, what's the problem? It's not illegal, and there is no proof it was to cover a previous illegal transaction, even if the dealer is asked in court.

In fact, if you agree that it was for covering an illegal transaction, you're in big trouble too! A "tracing" becomes a "tracing" only if it's illegal. What's wrong with bying a plasma screen with your card if you gave it to me? You guys are talking about leaving a trace. Of course it leaves a trace! It leaves the trace of something completly legit! That's the whole story!

Don't you get that it is exactly the beauty of the idea, for the dealers?

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02-21-2009, 01:00 PM
  #796
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So what? Let's say it's your card that is used by the dealer (with your agreement).

The tracing would be (example) : Monacoblue withdrwawn xxx$ at the xyz guichet at the date zzz.

What's wrong with that? It becomes a "tracing" only if you say that someone stole your card before that date. Are you gonna say that?

And since you would be agreeing with the dealer to let him used your card, what's the problem? It's not illegal, and there is no proof it was to cover a previous illegal transaction, even if the dealer is asked in court.

In fact, if you agree that it was for covering an illegal transaction, you're in big trouble too! A "tracing" becomes a "tracing" only if it's illegal. What's wrong with bying a plasma screen with your card if you gave it to me? You guys are talking about leaving a trace. Of course it leaves a trace! It leaves the trace of something completly legit! That's the whole story!

Don't you get that it is exactly the beauty of the idea, for the dealers?
Again, you can't prosecute people by tracking their credit card statements, but you can still use it as part of police operation. If you know that a credit card is being used by a drug dealer, you can look at why they're buying. You can know when they're buying. If they stop using a card, it could mean something's up. This is all information the police can use to find the information they need. It's not always about evidence and prosecution. The police know that not all the information they get will eventually be used as evidence. But it can still be useful information.

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02-21-2009, 01:08 PM
  #797
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I'm amazed by how over panicking you are.
Well, I may agree that my initial post seemed like panicking, because i was reacting to the denial in maybe a too hard fashion...

But believe me, I'm not panicking. In fact, I don't care. My point is just that Pro players linked to such a guy (not just a dealer selling to particulars: he's involved in exchanges betweens gangs and Hells Angels) to the point their giving their credit card is news worth reporting. That's all.

Your example with the stealers is good. It is news. Believe me, the pro leagues consider that big news now considering all the cocain scandals that these stories revealed in the 70s and 80s, the steroids of the 90s, the gamblings of the last few years, etc. People don't seem to realize that there is a pretty big trend since a few years in pro sports about gambling (referees in basketball, Tochett scandal, referee in soccer in europe, tennis players being opaid, etc.

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02-21-2009, 01:09 PM
  #798
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A lesson for everybody

Hi. I come in peace.

I think the recent events should serve as a lesson to pretty much everybody.

1. First and foremost, the Montreal media – both french and english – share a big responsibility for what happened. I’m not talking about La Presse, who did his job with extensive research and documented facts. That’s all they printed. But all those who, on Thursday night, blew the bubble so big, make me wonder how they could comment for hours on a news piece that they hadn’t seen. Obviously, they took a big pot and stirred it with all the rumours (crazy and not so crazy) they had heard in the past few months. And it created one big ugly stew.

The media is already accused of feeding the beast too much; it reached new levels on Thursday. How radio hosts could have gone on the air saying there would be arrests at the airport is beyond me. That is not information. A kid named Maxime Deland – nowhere to be seen on the Canadiens beat – wrote a piece on Canoe that was pure fabrication. You put this on your website and you make it disappear hours later? That is not information.

2. The fans also have their responsability.
I cannot them to believe the hype when it is presented the way it was on Thursday. However, those who’ve been ditching the La Presse news by saying it’s only part of a vast anti-Habs conspiracy, or that it’s sheer sensationalism, are way off the track. The article was written by journalists that have very solid contacts in the police and the judiciary. And the report was treated as such.

« Only that? » « All they’ve got is the bros are friends with a criminal? » The fans who reacted that way should put their love for the Canadiens aside for a minute an look at what’s going on. Heck, take a serious look at what’s going on BECAUSE you love the Canadiens!

The Kostitsyn brothers might have done nothing illegal as far as we know, but the mere fact they met a high-profile criminal involved in cocaine traffic on a daily basis is quite disturbing. It is more than just Ginette Reno singing for the Hells one night and feeling afterwards like she was framed (and it would take a pretty big frame if you ask me). We’re talking about three players, two of which have given their credit cards and financial documents to a guy who’s under mutiple accusations. their longstanding relationship is documented by hours and hours of tape.

Andrei Kostitsyn told me : « I know the guy but I know nothing about him ». Really? If so, I wonder how Andrei can be a good sniper on the ice and be that blind aqt the same time.

When such a man has been getting this close to the Habs dressing room - where there’s already rumours about other players not being exactly focused on the game - there’s a real danger. That fact, as fans, you cannot downplay. If a team ultimately got under the influence of mobsters, not only for drugs but for gambling or any other stuff that might endanger their career and the overall performance of the team, you wouldn’t downplay it, would you?

Oh, and one other thing about the fans and the media. I know the media can be blamed of a lot of things. I agree with a ton of things that have been written here on the topic. However, for a certain fraction of the fan base, media just cannot win. Either they’re accused of hiding facts to preserve their access to the players and God knows what; or, when they come up with verified facts - albeit less spectacular then previously announced - those same fans will say that we’re only there to destroy their beloved team. It’s a difficult position to maintain !


3. The Canadiens also have a lesson to learn. Bob Gainey admitted yesterday he has learned it in a very, very impressive manner. "We're very, very concerned", said Gainey, who chose not to downplay the news, and from now on, any other report he’ll been receiving internally on his players. It’s a bit late to act, but it’s not too late. The supervision around the team must definitely be tighter. If Gainey needed La Presse article to act, that’s another reason why the news must not be ditched.


4. You can talk about club supervision all you want, the players still have to show accountability and responsability. Amid the hype of the last few hours, many players must have felt relieved it was not their name who was revealed in the story. But I hope they learned nobody’s untouchable.

They’re professional athletes and they represent the team 24 hours a day. They should definitely know better. Here’s to hoping they were scared straight. Because if they don’t get serious, other stories will come out. And it won’t be the media fault. It will be theirs. Because they'll have put themselves in a position where there will be proofs of wrongdoings.

That's all I had to say.


Last edited by Mag1328: 02-21-2009 at 01:45 PM.
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02-21-2009, 01:12 PM
  #799
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Again, you can't prosecute people by tracking their credit card statements, but you can still use it as part of police operation. If you know that a credit card is being used by a drug dealer, you can look at why they're buying. You can know when they're buying. If they stop using a card, it could mean something's up. This is all information the police can use to find the information they need. It's not always about evidence and prosecution. The police know that not all the information they get will eventually be used as evidence. But it can still be useful information.
You're right, and it is exactly what the police is doing like I said in my first mail and that my friends policemen confirmed to me. And that is what they discover about the habs players. But no matter if it was for covering illegal transaction, it can't be used against the guy or the players. So we'll never know what was under it (maybe nothing, I don't care)

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02-21-2009, 01:18 PM
  #800
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2. The fans also have their responsability.
Many of the fans who read here are very impressionable young adolescents. How can you blame them? They, and the rest of us, rely on the "mature" adults who work for the media.

Don't give the fans too much blame; they didn't start this. Instead, consider the source.

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