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Habs Scandal Part IV

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Old
02-21-2009, 01:20 PM
  #801
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Well, I may agree that my initial post seemed like panicking, because i was reacting to the denial in maybe a too hard fashion...

But believe me, I'm not panicking. In fact, I don't care. My point is just that Pro players linked to such a guy (not just a dealer selling to particulars: he's involved in exchanges betweens gangs and Hells Angels) to the point their giving their credit card is news worth reporting. That's all.

Your example with the stealers is good. It is news. Believe me, the pro leagues consider that big news now considering all the cocain scandals that these stories revealed in the 70s and 80s, the steroids of the 90s, the gamblings of the last few years, etc. People don't seem to realize that there is a pretty big trend since a few years in pro sports about gambling (referees in basketball, Tochett scandal, referee in soccer in europe, tennis players being opaid, etc.
I don't blame the league or the management for wanting to put their nose into the situation. They have the responsibility to do so.

The part where I say it's stupid is the part where some people assume the Kost broz knew this guy was deep in organized crime.
Maybe they knew he could hook them up with many things, but like I said, most people don't ask questions.
I know some people that can hook me up with almost anything I want, but I don't want to know how deep their connections are.

I have a friend that's into some stuff, and I'm close to him, known him for 15years or so. I don't agree with what he does, but it's not gonna change my views of the guy. I don't want to know how deep his thing goes and even if I did, knowing him, he wouldn't tell me.

It could have been the same thing with the Kost broz. Giving your credit card to someone is never smart, heck, giving it to your girlfriend/wife is an huge No-No but you still do it.
So, while yes, it's stupid to have given this guy their card, it doesn't prove jack and in no way does it justify publishing an article just because they're overexcited about the potential juiciness of this news. It's completely irresponsible from La Presse and all the journalists that falsely lead us to believe one thing.

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Old
02-21-2009, 01:26 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by Joe Malone View Post
Don't give the fans too much blame; they didn't start this. Instead, consider the source.
Dude, this guy is the source, he works for La Presse, "who did his job with extensive research and documented facts." He has some good points but is hard to take serious because of this.

Whatever.

Montreal media!

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Old
02-21-2009, 01:31 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I don't blame the league or the management for wanting to put their nose into the situation. They have the responsibility to do so.

The part where I say it's stupid is the part where some people assume the Kost broz knew this guy was deep in organized crime.
Maybe they knew he could hook them up with many things, but like I said, most people don't ask questions.
I know some people that can hook me up with almost anything I want, but I don't want to know how deep their connections are.

I have a friend that's into some stuff, and I'm close to him, known him for 15years or so. I don't agree with what he does, but it's not gonna change my views of the guy. I don't want to know how deep his thing goes and even if I did, knowing him, he wouldn't tell me.

It could have been the same thing with the Kost broz. Giving your credit card to someone is never smart, heck, giving it to your girlfriend/wife is an huge No-No but you still do it.
So, while yes, it's stupid to have given this guy their card, it doesn't prove jack and in no way does it justify publishing an article just because they're overexcited about the potential juiciness of this news. It's completely irresponsible from La Presse and all the journalists that falsely lead us to believe one thing.
I get your point and I can't say I disagree. My point is not about the Kost brothers knowing or not, etc... My point is that 2 (and 3) pro players linked with such individuals to the point of giving their credit cards is news worth reporting. And yes, I'm amazed how people seem to consider that giving your credit card to someone is a small detail, knowing that IT IS a common procedure in criminal activities... (no matter if there was criminal activities)

Now honestly, about the habs and kost bros, I really don't care. I root for the logo, not for the names, even if I have my favorites (A Kost being one of them!) And long years of watching and loving the habs have me almost laughing at that event. I know the habs will still be there with different players or not, and I'll still wish for a cup!

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02-21-2009, 01:31 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by preston View Post
Dude, this guy is the source, he works for La Presse, "who did his job with extensive research and documented facts." He has some good points but is hard to take serious because of this.

Whatever.

Montreal media!
I know who he is, and he is not THE source that started this crap. Another member of the media was though.

I agree he makes good points. I just can't see the fans being blamed.

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Old
02-21-2009, 01:37 PM
  #805
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I didn't learn anything from this mess. I already knew Montreal media was a cesspool!

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Old
02-21-2009, 01:39 PM
  #806
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Don't measure the blame by the length of the paragraphs
All I'm saying regarding the fans is: don't discard the Kostitsyn news as if there's nothing there. Because it is truly preoccupying. Gainey himself aknoledged it. That's all !

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Old
02-21-2009, 01:40 PM
  #807
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Thats all good and fair..... but did you know Josh Gorges was Captain of the Kelowna Rockets?

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Old
02-21-2009, 01:43 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Joe Malone View Post
I know who he is, and he is not THE source that started this crap. Another member of the media was though.

I agree he makes good points. I just can't see the fans being blamed.
Sorry, I should clarify, I know he's not THE source, and I wasn't trying to disrespect him or discredit him, I was just trying to express the total disillusion with anything Montreal sports media related right now. I respect his opinions and actually think it's cool that he comes on here and discusses a foreign point of view to the fans, but at the same time, his posting on this helps as much as it hinders, just because of where he's coming from, working for the media.

So if you're reading this "Mag1328", my apologies if you took personal insult, I didn't mean it that way, but I think you're aware of the double-edged sword that is you trying to be calm and reiterating that the fans play a role part.

I don't know, how else is a fan not going to think you're coming at us with an angle because of all the "Montreal media" quotes and backlash. People could take it further and maybe assume your current assignment is to be the internet guy for La Presse and spread some good cheer their way on these forums that you think are part of the problem.

Just trying to show you how some fans that don't have press passes may be feeling.

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Old
02-21-2009, 01:49 PM
  #809
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I get your point and I can't say I disagree. My point is not about the Kost brothers knowing or not, etc... My point is that 2 (and 3) pro players linked with such individuals to the point of giving their credit cards is news worth reporting. And yes, I'm amazed how people seem to consider that giving your credit card to someone is a small detail, knowing that IT IS a common procedure in criminal activities... (no matter if there was criminal activities)
Well, like I said, giving your credit card to anybody is a huge no-no. But I don't agree that it's right away a news worthy of reporting.
Especially when in that same report, you're misleading the population into thinking these players could be linked to criminal activities.
It's just bad journalism.

All La Presse had to do, is wait 1 day and they wouldn't been able to publish much because the players would have been completely cleared.
They could have given their credit card to this guy because he said he'd hook them up with something or go buy them stuff or wtv.

I agree, a criminal using your credit card doesn't look good, but in no way does it prove anything. It actually proves absolutely nothing.
So, reporting that a criminal used A.Kost's credit card will only cause some drama. Useless and unjustified drama.
If they were in the least professional, they'd have waited to get more info on this.
La Presse only thought about the $$$ they'd get out of publishing such a story.
As for the journalist, we all know how they just jump on any opportunity to write a possible story about anything concerning the Habs. It's simply unprofessional.


Last edited by Kriss E: 02-21-2009 at 02:10 PM.
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Old
02-21-2009, 01:50 PM
  #810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Malone View Post
Many of the fans who read here are very impressionable young adolescents. How can you blame them? They, and the rest of us, rely on the "mature" adults who work for the media.

Don't give the fans too much blame; they didn't start this. Instead, consider the source.
Bang on

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Old
02-21-2009, 01:57 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well, like I said, giving your credit card to anybody is a huge no-no. But I don't agree that it's right a way a news worthy of reporting.
Especially when it that same report, you're misleading the population into thinking these players could be linked to criminal activities.
It's just bad journalism.

All La Presse had to do, is wait 1 day and they wouldn't been able to publish much because the players would have been completely cleared.
They could have given their credit card to this guy because he said he'd hook go buy them stuff or wtv.

I agree, a criminal using your credit card doesn't look good, but in no way does it prove anything. It actually proves absolutely nothing.
So, reporting that a criminal used A.Kost's credit card will only cause some drama. Useless and unjustified drama.
If they were in the least professional, they'd have waited to get more info on this.
La Presse only thought about the $$$ they'd get out of publishing such a story.
As for the journalist, we all know how they just jump on any opportunity to write a possible story about anything concerning the Habs. It's simply unprofessional.
This post speaks the truth. You can completely ruin somebody's reputation doing what the newspapers did. The press had no substantiated proof that the brothers did anything illegal, yet the reports they wrote gave people the impression that they did. In fact, I'm sure there's grounds for a libel suit here if the Kosty bros and Hamrlik want to pursue that option (I don't actually think they want to or should do that).

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Old
02-21-2009, 01:58 PM
  #812
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you forgot this ;

5. The mafiosi also have learned a lesson ; it 's very simple to take advantage of rich young hockey players .

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Old
02-21-2009, 02:04 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm amazed by how over panicking you are.

I've been partying for a very long time. I've been part of what many could consider the ''jet set'' lifestyle.

Let me tell you something, it is INCREDIBLY easy for young rich FAMOUS bachelors to meet people.
The Kost broz didn't know this guy from back in Russia or wherever. They probably met this guy in a club.

You know, when Habs players go somewhere, they usually tell the manager, if not the owner, of the place that they'll be coming so they can be well taken cared off.
Once they get there, they get in right away, and there's somebody to make sure they get whatever it is they need instantly. It's like that for any celebrity.

I've seen the Kost broz with Markov and Ovechkin partying it up in the middle of the club with bouncers around them. I've seen groupies brought up to Komi's and the rest of the hab's tables.

I mean, it's just how things work buddy.

Now, what I think truly happened is this guy was introduced to them as the guy that could hooked them up with anything and everything. As most, young, foreign and rich kid would do, you just accept and don't really bother asking question. You just ride the wave of happiness and being well taken cared off.

Maybe they scored dope, maybe they got hooked up with escorts, so freaking what?..are we THAT naive to believe athletes don't party like crazy?..
I don't remember when, maybe 80's or 90's, but at some point the whole Steelers's defensive line was partying in Miami at a house party of one of the biggest cocaine smuggler during his era (Reference: Cocaine Cowboys). They were all high up on yayo the day before the Superbowl. They obviously lost, but it's just to say, everybody does it.
Does this mean the whole defensive line should be prosecuted??..of course not. Don't even think this story was ever made public.

Now, the Kost broz aren't accused of anything. Their wire tap conversations were dismissed. There wasn't any signs/evidence of the Kost broz taking part of any criminal activities. So, all in all, they just knew a guy that hooked them up whenever they wanted something. BIG WHOOP!..
In no way does it justify the whole ridiculous zoo we've been seeing these past days. If I were them I'd even ask for an apology from the Press for running such a story before getting all the facts.
They're certainly entitled to some type of compensation because their reputation has been crippled.

I'm not naive, because I know and seen how things work. This story is junk, just pure junk.
All it is, is a couple of local stars getting introduced to some guy with connections. It stays very limited. To say it's the doorway to a life full of sins and bad things, that it's just the beginning, is over panicking.
so what if your buying drugs thats the image of today....your making me worry about my kids maybe for you its ok for me as a parent its not the life style i want....hockey players are role models to and if its ok the canadiens have a bunch of druggies..then wow....

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02-21-2009, 02:15 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by sensjunkie View Post
so what if your buying drugs thats the image of today....your making me worry about my kids maybe for you its ok for me as a parent its not the life style i want....hockey players are role models to and if its ok the canadiens have a bunch of druggies..then wow....
What do you mean by 'today'? This type of behavior is nothing new........your hockey role models were probably doing the same thing.

It's not right but it is what it is.

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02-21-2009, 02:18 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
What do you mean by 'today'? This type of behavior is nothing new........your hockey role models were probably doing the same thing.

It's not right but it is what it is.
lol ok lets all ignore it then....forget drugs steroids in sports ok.....

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02-21-2009, 02:18 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by sensjunkie View Post
so what IF your buying drugs thats the image of today....your making me worry about my kids maybe for you its ok for me as a parent its not the life style i want....hockey players are role models to and if its ok the canadiens have a bunch of druggies..then wow....
Notice the big ''IF'' in your post. That's the KEY word right there.

Do you tell your kids to judge people before knowing them?
Do you tell your kids to make up their minds about things before learning all the facts?
Do you tell your kids not to have an open mind?..

It's the same thing with this. They didn't have all the facts, so coming out with this story was irresponsible.

As for the drugs, we don't know. One thing we DO know, is that all players won't be prosecuted/accused and no evidence was found that proved them partaking in any criminal activities.
So..the only thing that damaged their image was the media.

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Old
02-21-2009, 02:23 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by sensjunkie View Post
lol ok lets all ignore it then....forget drugs steroids in sports ok.....
Don't forget it. Just accept it.

Are we that naive that we can't believe or accept the fact young rich famous athletes are going to party and try some drugs some times?..

Alcohol is just as much a drug as anything else, yet it's legal. Are you gonna give some to your kids?..Guessing not.
Cigarettes??..Same thing right.

It's the same for any drugs, whether they're legal or not.

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Old
02-21-2009, 02:25 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I thought it was evident enough...

The now common procedure, as confirmed from my friends policemen, is that there is no money involved. You give your credit card to the guy (most of the time it's a second or third credit card). Then, everytime you want something illegal from him (prostitute, drug, etc.), instead of giving money, the guy buy something with your credit card for himself, or directly takes money from it like you can do with some credit cards. For him, it's exactly like being paid since he buys stuff he would have buy anyway (or he can even sell the stuff after), for himself of for gifts, etc. Then later that month, the card owner (or the agent for most of the players) pays the bill like a regular bill, supposedly used to buy electronics and stuff... Is that so hard to understand? We're not talking about a dealer accepting credit cards!!!!

The idea behind this is that, first, the "money" is cleaned. And second, since there is no transaction, there is no evidence of "money-for-drug" transaction in an eventual trial. In fact, more often than not, there is not enough evidence to even go in a trial.

Now I never said that was what happended with the bros. I'm just stating it is common procedure with "high-end dealers".
people cant fathom that this IS how it works for high end clients. and dealers dont have credit card machines, and its not like what people view as "drug users" aka crack heads ect can do this. only respectable clientele with big incomes.

whats been said has not been denied. to these reporters, the "big bomb" may be habitual coke use. to some people premarital sex is a "big bomb." or it could be worse, but i think its the fact that the media has proof that these guys blew alot and are apprehensive of making that claim, and are considering it the "big bomb."

people claiming this is nothing are in denial. you dont just give out your credit card info. how many of your best friends know that info? hell i dated someone for over 2 years and that wasnt something i even considered giving out.

the media pertaining to the habs in montreal is like american media and paris hilton, it takes precedent over most everything else. it also is the reason you see players not wanting ot deal with the whole atmosphere where the entire town (including the media) will build a statue of you on monday and hang you from it on thursday. but to argue that these kids were naive and didnt know he was a dealer and gave their CREDIT CARD INFORMATION to him in good intentions, is pretty naive.

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Old
02-21-2009, 02:29 PM
  #819
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I absolutely agree that this all started because of the Cancun party pictures. I'm positive. The rest, is all hearsay from "friend of a bartender" or other third hand sources.

The media in this city is nothing short of pathetic.

PATHETIC.

They are a disgrace to journalism. They're nothing more than celebrity chasers like on TMZ.
I'm sorry but it doesen't make sense. If it was only based on hearsay, he would've only release the info and nothing more.

You do not call Bob Gainey if you have nothing more than hearsays.

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Old
02-21-2009, 02:31 PM
  #820
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Originally Posted by peanutvendor View Post
people cant fathom that this IS how it works for high end clients. and dealers dont have credit card machines, and its not like what people view as "drug users" aka crack heads ect can do this. only respectable clientele with big incomes.

whats been said has not been denied. to these reporters, the "big bomb" may be habitual coke use. to some people premarital sex is a "big bomb." or it could be worse, but i think its the fact that the media has proof that these guys blew alot and are apprehensive of making that claim, and are considering it the "big bomb."

people claiming this is nothing are in denial. you dont just give out your credit card info. how many of your best friends know that info? hell i dated someone for over 2 years and that wasnt something i even considered giving out.

the media pertaining to the habs in montreal is like american media and paris hilton, it takes precedent over most everything else. it also is the reason you see players not wanting ot deal with the whole atmosphere where the entire town (including the media) will build a statue of you on monday and hang you from it on thursday. but to argue that these kids were naive and didnt know he was a dealer and gave their CREDIT CARD INFORMATION to him in good intentions, is pretty naive.
Never forget that the Kostitsyn are coming from a country where corruption is an every day fact of life. Everyone is taxing everyone. Getting along with that type of individuals doesn't bother them much.

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Old
02-21-2009, 02:55 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
i have yet to find credit cards you can withdraw money with
Dude, I could withdraw money with my credit card 5 years ago...

It's 2009 over here, we also have such thing as cellular phones nowadays.


Last edited by Lint07: 02-21-2009 at 03:05 PM.
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02-21-2009, 03:00 PM
  #822
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Yes they do.
Maybe you should read the article then, because it clearly state that they don't.

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02-21-2009, 03:02 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I thought it was evident enough...

The now common procedure, as confirmed from my friends policemen, is that there is no money involved. You give your credit card to the guy (most of the time it's a second or third credit card). Then, everytime you want something illegal from him (prostitute, drug, etc.), instead of giving money, the guy buy something with your credit card for himself, or directly takes money from it like you can do with some credit cards. For him, it's exactly like being paid since he buys stuff he would have buy anyway (or he can even sell the stuff after), for himself of for gifts, etc. Then later that month, the card owner (or the agent for most of the players) pays the bill like a regular bill, supposedly used to buy electronics and stuff... Is that so hard to understand? We're not talking about a dealer accepting credit cards!!!!

The idea behind this is that, first, the "money" is cleaned. And second, since there is no transaction, there is no evidence of "money-for-drug" transaction in an eventual trial. In fact, more often than not, there is not enough evidence to even go in a trial.

Now I never said that was what happended with the bros. I'm just stating it is common procedure with "high-end dealers".
'your friend's policemen'?

the post makes no sense. in fact there are so many holes in its logic i don't feel like breaking it all down.

here's just ONE example of why high end clients NEVER use cards. elliot spitzer? 'member him? ALL cash for high end prostitutes. Cash is never traceable unless it's marked. AND he was still busted. ..agents would NEVER pay player's credit cards through middlemen. they may assign somebody to look after the players but it's legit....

mangiona sp? had traces of purchases - slips / account info, habs pay stubs in his place...that's just sloppy and doesn't lend itself to any big time crimes on behalf of the players

based on the logic of your post, players are giving crime figures credit cards to go purchasing items, those items are then resold to go fund illicit activities and substances?
absurd

it is far easier to just give / withdraw someone some cash to just go do it. withdrawal that is traced can be vaguely explained away as anything.

NOT cards..thus why i believe these cards were used for crap they needed for their apartments, etc...booze...maybe call girls -- more likely not. if they used it on girls - or escorts which are legal then ok, but just stupid. but no guy with organized crime is going to 'wash' credit card 'credit' to purchase drugs.

these cards also probably had a limit, something these millionaires...could care less about...but ultimately didn't dent their accounts.

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02-21-2009, 03:03 PM
  #824
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Kovy will be back, Iwishihadacup fails. Back to the hockey game I go. GDT's lose!

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02-21-2009, 03:06 PM
  #825
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The guy on CBC just said that he spoke to Gainey and that they were completely not surprised by this story. They had in fact conducted their own investigation and knew it was only a matter of time before it came out.

Knowing this explains a great deal about why BG didn't bother to reply to Perron's phone call. It is also probably why took steps to calm everything down very quickly and give that well delivered press conference in which he defused the situation very well. He explained that it was common for these individuals to attempt to infiltrate the team and they were on top of it. He answered every question calmly and took the wind out of the story's sails.

I have to commend BG on his handling of this and other issues. The team will be stronger once they are through this and the media will be weaker. It is really amazing how many people are ticked off at the media for over blowing something that could happen to each and every one of us.

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