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The Cluttered Bottom Six

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Old
02-22-2009, 09:53 AM
  #1
kovalost27
 
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The Cluttered Bottom Six

When Tanguay comes back, this is going to be the top six:

Tanguay - Koivu - Higgins
Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev

Now, since this is what the lineup is going to look like for the top six, how do you girls and guys think the bottom six is going to look like? Who will be sent down?

List of players:
Lapierre, Latendresse, Begin, Dandenault, Kostopoulos, Laraque, Chipchura, Stewart, D'Agostini, Pacioretty.

Boldface for AHL call-ups

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02-22-2009, 09:54 AM
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Iwishihadacup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant1r View Post
When Tanguay comes back, this is going to be the top six:

Tanguay - Koivu - Higgins
Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev

Now, since this is what the lineup is going to look like for the top six, how do you girls and guys think the bottom six is going to look like? Who will be sent down?

List of players:
Lapierre, Latendresse, Begin, Dandenault, Kostopoulos, Laraque, Chipchura, Stewart, D'Agostini, Pacioretty.

Boldface for AHL call-ups

don't worry son, Kovalev will be gone by march 4

and maybe begin, and I hope Dandenault too

but if the youngs like stewart and Chipchura keep up the good work, we will see the real garbage go away

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02-22-2009, 09:57 AM
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Galchenyuk x 27
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I want 3rd to be Dagostini Lapierre Pacioretty

4th...dont care

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02-22-2009, 09:58 AM
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Pacioretty-Lapierre-Latendresse
Begin-Chipchura-Kostopoulos

I also liked the Pacioretty-Plekanec-Kostitsyn line, so i wouldn't mind seeing that either if Kovalev gets traded or decides to disappear again.

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02-22-2009, 09:59 AM
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beowulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
I want 3rd to be Dagostini Lapierre Pacioretty

4th...dont care
I would agree and a forth of Kosto/Chip/BGL or Stewart.

Is it me or is Lats slowly losing his place on this team?

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02-22-2009, 10:02 AM
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I think some of the young guys will be sent down to Hamilton to make a run at the Calder Cup. It will be better for their long term development, playing top 6 minutes rather than playing bottom 6 minutes.

First to go will probably be Dagostini as he hasn't been ripping it up recently, and he was only really affective on the first line. Also, Patches may go down too.

And lastly, remember, S. Kostitsyn will most likely get called back up if his name is cleared, and he starts to find his form again in Hamilton ... so the lines will even more choked.

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02-22-2009, 10:04 AM
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Galchenyuk x 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus1 View Post
I think some of the young guys will be sent down to Hamilton to make a run at the cup. It will be better for their long term development, playing top 6 minutes rather than playing bottom 6 minutes.

First to go will probably be Dagostini as he hasn't been ripping it up recently, and he was only really affective on the first line. Also, Patches may go down too.

And lastly, remember, S. Kostitsyn will most likely get called back up if his name is cleared, and he starts to find his form again in Hamilton ... so the lines will even more choked.
They play for the Canadiensm no such thing as top and bottom 6 minutes.

we roll 4 lines

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02-22-2009, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
They play for the Canadiensm no such thing as top and bottom 6 minutes.

we roll 4 lines
Indeed, which sucks at times.....like late in a game when we have a 3-2 lead

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02-22-2009, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
don't worry son, Kovalev will be gone by march 4
Do you think Montreal really wants to get rid of one of the most talented players in the NHL who really cares about his team and is adamant about playing there? Especially now since he's finally played a great game of hockey.

Montreal are buyers, not sellers.

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02-22-2009, 10:18 AM
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Bacchus1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
They play for the Canadiensm no such thing as top and bottom 6 minutes.

we roll 4 lines
I know that is what the propaganda says, but the fact of the matter is many of our top 6 receive around 17-20 minutes per game, and some of the AHL call ups get less than 10 minutes per game. If they were in the AHL, they would probably be getting 20 per game too, including first line PP and some penalty kill.

In todays game Chips, Patches, Stewart all got under 10 mins, while Dags got just over 11.

While Pleks, Higgins, and Kovalev all got over 18 minutes.

So although theoretically we roll 4 lines, in actuality, some of those lines get more time than others.

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02-22-2009, 10:18 AM
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Iwishihadacup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant1r View Post
Do you think Montreal really wants to get rid of one of the most talented players in the NHL who really cares about his team and is adamant about playing there? Especially now since he's finally played a great game of hockey.

Montreal are buyers, not sellers.
I suppose you never heard the logic of addition by substraction


Kovalev have been dragging his line down since the beginning of the year minus yesterday, he's still a liability in my books

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02-22-2009, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Is it me or is Lats slowly losing his place on this team?
Yeah it looks like it. Latendresse can't produce enough to keep a top six role, and cannot play a third or fourth line role as well as a third or fourth line player.

I think it would be better for him to play for a team that needs a top six player and believes that he can fit that role and they play the hell out of him rather than him sitting in lingo between top six and bottom six.

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02-22-2009, 10:29 AM
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Iwishihadacup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant1r View Post
Yeah it looks like it. Latendresse can't produce enough to keep a top six role, and cannot play a third or fourth line role as well as a third or fourth line player.

I think it would be better for him to play for a team that needs a top six player and believes that he can fit that role and they play the hell out of him rather than him sitting in lingo between top six and bottom six.
you're so wrong you're funny, the Latendresse Lapierre was huge part of our success in december and before he got hurt

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02-22-2009, 10:30 AM
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Patches/Lapierre/Lats
Kosto/Begin/Laraque-Dandenault-Stewart

Chipper, Dags going down (I like Dags, but I would prefer not having him on the 4th line). Unless somebody leaves. Stewart should have to go to HAM, but Carbo seems to like him, so... I dunno.

I hope Begin remains a Hab and a regular player, at least for this year (or until Lang comes back...). He just brings more than Chipchura at this point. Thing is, they might keep Chipper because he's a C. But I would really prefer Begin in his place (at this point).

There's no way Lats doesn't come back with Lapierre, and I think Patches has won Kosto's spot. (which basically sends Kosto on the 4th).

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02-22-2009, 10:33 AM
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I remember a few years back Shayne Corson was soon to be a UFA and was playing for the Habs. He asked not to be traded as he wanted to finish his career in Montreal. Make a long story short we kept him and he ended up signing in Toronto. As great as Kovy is we've got to manage our assets and take advantage of our opportunities. We already lost through waivers Hainsey and Beauchamin and we also lost Souray and Streit for nothing as well. We stiil need a top flight center and if this helps us get one by making a deal for Kovy for the future I think this would be the right thing to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grant1r View Post
Do you think Montreal really wants to get rid of one of the most talented players in the NHL who really cares about his team and is adamant about playing there? Especially now since he's finally played a great game of hockey.

Montreal are buyers, not sellers.

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Old
02-22-2009, 10:36 AM
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HomaridII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant1r View Post
When Tanguay comes back, this is going to be the top six:

Tanguay - Koivu - Higgins
Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev

Now, since this is what the lineup is going to look like for the top six, how do you girls and guys think the bottom six is going to look like? Who will be sent down?

List of players:
Lapierre, Latendresse, Begin, Dandenault, Kostopoulos, Laraque, Chipchura, Stewart, D'Agostini, Pacioretty.

Boldface for AHL call-ups
You have forgotten about Sergei Kostitsyn who has been promised a callup in early march by Bob Gainey according to reports. IMO there are too many players who can and should play in the everyday lineup, but here is what I wouldl do:

1) Send Stewart down.

2) I feel sorry for Dandenault but at this point, I don't think he will be able to make the lineup.;

3) Laraque is useless.

My lines wold be:

Latendresse - Lapierre - Kostopoulus

This guys were great together and they deserve a chance to play together again.

D'Agostini - Chipchura - Pacioretty

I liked what I saw from Chipchura last game and IMO he would benefit from playing with 2 faster, more physical players. These guys could provide a lot of energy and some sporadic offense.

Bench: Laraque, Dandenault, Begin

I think Bob needs to trade Sergei Kostitsyn. I don't see how he feels into the lineup with everybody healthy. He isn't playing well enough defensively or physical enough to merit a 3rd or 4th line spot at the moment.

I would try to package Sergei + for somebody like Jordan Leopold who was a minute eater in Calgary, he would make a great partner for Gorges IMO.

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Old
02-22-2009, 10:38 AM
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I'd move Maxpac, Higgins and AK around once Tanguay comes back, leaving the bottom 6 with this:

Tanguay-Koivu-AK
MaxPac-Pleks-Kovalev
Higgins-Lapierre-Lats
Dandy-(veteran who can win faceoffs acquired at the deadline)-Kosto

Extra: Begin & Laraque

Chips, D'Ago, and Steward sent back to Hamilton.

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Old
02-22-2009, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missthenet View Post
I remember a few years back Shayne Corson was soon to be a UFA and was playing for the Habs. He asked not to be traded as he wanted to finish his career in Montreal. Make a long story short we kept him and he ended up signing in Toronto. As great as Kovy is we've got to manage our assets and take advantage of our opportunities. We already lost through waivers Hainsey and Beauchamin and we also lost Souray and Streit for nothing as well. We stiil need a top flight center and if this helps us get one by making a deal for Kovy for the future I think this would be the right thing to do.
Yes, but you still have to take risks. This is the Canadiens big season, and they're in it to win the Stanley Cup. If Kovalev can be more of a clutch player in the next little while (because his consistency was really decent considering all the other players who weren't) then I don't see why Montreal would trade him, especially at how cheap Montreal has him for.

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02-22-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant1r View Post
Yes, but you still have to take risks. This is the Canadiens big season, and they're in it to win the Stanley Cup. If Kovalev can be more of a clutch player in the next little while (because his consistency was really decent considering all the other players who weren't) then I don't see why Montreal would trade him, especially at how cheap Montreal has him for.
consistensy in mediocrity is not consistency we want.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 02-22-2009 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Play nice
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02-22-2009, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant1r View Post
Yes, but you still have to take risks. This is the Canadiens big season, and they're in it to win the Stanley Cup. If Kovalev can be more of a clutch player in the next little while (because his consistency was really decent considering all the other players who weren't) then I don't see why Montreal would trade him, especially at how cheap Montreal has him for.
How do we know which Kovalev will show up if we make the playoffs, are we willing to gamble away a great opportunity to maybe pick up a good skater and maybe a first rounder? look what we got for Rivet, both are playing right now for the Habs. Please don't get me wrong I think Kovy is a great player but would rather get something of long term benefit by tradinf him instead of keeping a guy that may help us if we make the playoffs.

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02-22-2009, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by missthenet View Post
How do we know which Kovalev will show up if we make the playoffs, are we willing to gamble away a great opportunity to maybe pick up a good skater and maybe a first rounder? look what we got for Rivet, both are playing right now for the Habs. Please don't get me wrong I think Kovy is a great player but would rather get something of long term benefit by tradinf him instead of keeping a guy that may help us if we make the playoffs.
Actually if there is one thing you can count on, is Kovalev playing well in the playoffs. In 112 career playoff games, he has 95 points and with the Canadiens in 29 playoffs games, he has 28 points and 15 goals.

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02-22-2009, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
you're so wrong you're funny, the Latendresse Lapierre was huge part of our success in december and before he got hurt
Latendresse and Lapierre were on a hot streak, so what? They still both go through 12 game point droughts, except Lapierre is a lot more of a better hockey player without producing than Latendresse is.

What I was trying to say is that guys like Begin and Stewart are suited better than Latendresse to play on the bottom six because that's their role. Latendresse's expectation by scouts is a power forward.

With all of Montreal's forwards who can do better than Latendresse as far as speed, offensive skills goes, and those who know their role as a bottom six player and get paid accordingly (not talking about this year but the next), I think Latendresse will be better off playing on another team where he can get the minutes to prove that he can be a power forward. Also, I think that he can be easily replaced with an AHL level player for 800k-1mill less!

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02-22-2009, 11:04 AM
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I'd rather not venture on what our lines will be until March 5th, the day after the deadline. I have a feeling that we'll be seeing a different team.

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02-22-2009, 11:05 AM
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Iwishihadacup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant1r View Post
Latendresse and Lapierre were on a hot streak, so what? They still both go through 12 game point droughts, except Lapierre is a lot more of a better hockey player without producing than Latendresse is.

What I was trying to say is that guys like Begin and Stewart are suited better than Latendresse to play on the bottom six because that's their role. Latendresse's expectation by scouts is a power forward.

With all of Montreal's forwards who can do better than Latendresse as far as speed, offensive skills goes, and those who know their role as a bottom six player and get paid accordingly (not talking about this year but the next), I think Latendresse will be better off playing on another team where he can get the minutes to prove that he can be a power forward. Also, I think that he can be easily replaced with an AHL level player for 800k-1mill less!
they did many good things except scoring, but you'Re too bad of a hokcye analyst to see it


And give a break to Lats with your "What have you done for me lately" issues, because he is the future at right wing, just like Andrei

just give him at least five year in the NHL and maybe we will be able to discuss

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02-22-2009, 11:09 AM
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At this point in the season, I just can't think of putting Chips as our regular 4th center. Chips speed and positioning are just fine, his faceoff's need a lot of work but all around he simply needs time to adjust. Still I would keep him in our active roster as an insurance policy. Anyways, we are loaded at center in Hamilton.

Dags and MaxPac are just playing to well to be sent down and the experience they are gaining now will be gold next season.

Stewart is just fine for some stints, but on the long road I'm not sure he could be effective.

The problem of our bottom six that our veterans were not able to establish themselves this years because of injuries.

Begin, Dandy and Laraque - a rare fighter that can play hockey - would be very valuable on any roster. Now we know Begin tends to be overboard, that Dandy tends to think he is as good as a top six forward and that Laraque is a must have but not always.

Begin, love the guy, love what he brings, but can get the same from younger talent at a better price.

Dandy, love the speed, love the versatility, has some offensive flair and grit, but has a costly contract.

Now the tipping point is that you cannot have a 4th line of youngters. In today's NHL, with the top caliber that some teams have, the great 4th liners have deep experience. We need to have a mix of eagerness and experience.

That being said, with all but Lang healthy and SK getting think together and no major trades, I would venture into getting a top faceoff man to play on the 4th line:

Tanguay - Koivu - Dags
AK- Pleks - Kovy
Higgins - Laps - Lats
MaxPac - Rental - Kosto

Chips and Laraque as spares.

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