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The REAL source of the futility is the FANS

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Old
02-22-2009, 04:58 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
I appreciate you dissecting the psychology behind my post, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm wrong.
You are wrong. If Dolan doesn't care, then he's the problem, not the fans. Until he decides to sell the team, that isn't going to change, no matter what the fans do.

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02-22-2009, 05:13 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by RichterLundqvist View Post
File this poster under the "doesnt get it" that everyone can have their own opinion and if they dont agree with you they are not wrong. This isnt a cut and dry problem with a single answer. Have fun not watching the team you love; you only have so many years on this earth and I dont give a flying **** if the product sucks I'll support my team through good and bad and hope the people in charge can figure it out for themselves that somethings wrong. Granted with Dolan in charge its not likely. "I have a hockey team?"
Exactly. No matter what team you root for, they are going to go through good times and bad times. If the Rangers are having a bad season, it's better off for no one to watch so we can teach Dolan a lesson? For instance, a dad should fight his urges to take his son to a Rangers game for then, he will be at risk of not doing what's best for the franchise? Also, he is no longer considered a "die hard Ranger fan." By who's opinion? Just some ordinary "joe" on the HF Boards?
How about Penguin fans? They got to see their team go to a Stanley Cup final last year and everyone was cheering on the Pens in Pittsburgh. This year and at this point. What should Penguin fans do? Not go to games? Not watch games? That sound's like a "fair weather" fan to me.
If you, or I, and a group of friends want to go to a Ranger game, it would make us less than "die hard fans?" What should we do? Not go see the team we love because some idiot thinks it makes us more of a fan too just "suck it up" and fight your desire to go have a good time with your friends at a Rangers game? Maybe be put in straight jackets?
With the Rangers current situation. It makes someone more of a fan than myself, because I don't wish to see the Rangers take a nose dive into the basement of the Eastern conference so that my team gets a high end draft pick?

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02-22-2009, 05:43 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichterLundqvist View Post
File this poster under the "doesnt get it" that everyone can have their own opinion and if they dont agree with you they are not wrong. This isnt a cut and dry problem with a single answer. Have fun not watching the team you love; you only have so many years on this earth and I dont give a flying **** if the product sucks I'll support my team through good and bad and hope the people in charge can figure it out for themselves that somethings wrong. Granted with Dolan in charge its not likely. "I have a hockey team?"
+1

Great post.

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02-22-2009, 05:47 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
Exactly. No matter what team you root for, they are going to go through good times and bad times. If the Rangers are having a bad season, it's better off for no one to watch so we can teach Dolan a lesson? For instance, a dad should fight his urges to take his son to a Rangers game for then, he will be at risk of not doing what's best for the franchise? Also, he is no longer considered a "die hard Ranger fan." By who's opinion? Just some ordinary "joe" on the HF Boards?
How about Penguin fans? They got to see their team go to a Stanley Cup final last year and everyone was cheering on the Pens in Pittsburgh. This year and at this point. What should Penguin fans do? Not go to games? Not watch games? That sound's like a "fair weather" fan to me.
If you, or I, and a group of friends want to go to a Ranger game, it would make us less than "die hard fans?" What should we do? Not go see the team we love because some idiot thinks it makes us more of a fan too just "suck it up" and fight your desire to go have a good time with your friends at a Rangers game? Maybe be put in straight jackets?
With the Rangers current situation. It makes someone more of a fan than myself, because I don't wish to see the Rangers take a nose dive into the basement of the Eastern conference so that my team gets a high end draft pick?
Another excellent post.

For the OP: This is part of the point I was trying to make. If the team isn't winning, I should stop watching to "prove a point"? Do you think anyone would give two *****? No. Watching when a team is winning and turning your back when the team is losing is the textbook definition of a "fairweather fan". What the hell do you expect? To win the Stanley Cup every year? The team might be having a rough year, yes. If you don't want to watch, then YOU should stop watching or root for another team that suits your needs better. For me, I'll cheer for this team if they lose every single game or win every single game. That's what it means to be a fan.

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02-22-2009, 06:09 PM
  #80
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Former Rangers fan stopping by... I come in peace.

The problem, as I see it, is that the Rangers keep trying to build buzz instead of building a team. It started with the addition of Gretzky years ago (which was the beginning of the end for me) and has continued since then.

"Lets get the biggest names on the UFA market" is not a blueprint for consistent success, unless you judge success by the number of times you can grab the headline in the NYC sports pages instead of the number in the wins column. Instead of a team with chemistry, you generally end up with a mix of poorly matching parts.

Draft well. Keep & develop your younger players. Add complementary players via UFA. That is how you succeed in the NHL.

Unfortunately, I don't see things getting better with Dolan & Sather at the helm. I hope I'm wrong.


Last edited by angry_treefrog: 02-22-2009 at 06:15 PM.
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02-22-2009, 06:13 PM
  #81
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Well, I'm glad I got people thinking. I like to stir the pot.

Oh, and I'll still be watching every single game on TV, and going to a few games a year. I'll still know every player in the organization, and I'll always be a loyal Ranger fan, as I have since 1989! (I'm 30)

The point of this post was just to make people think, not to ruin anyone's entertainment. Although I'm not sure how entertaining this team is right now!

Go Rangers!!

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Old
02-22-2009, 06:13 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick26 View Post
Good fans want what's best for the organization in the years to come.
Fair-weather fans are the people who continue to financially support an organization by spending thousands of dollars on tickets and merchandise no matter how horrible the owner or GM is, just because they're the local team and they want another reason to drink beer and yell.
No a fairweather fan is someone who stops supporting a team when they are doing badly, like a person who only sticks with something when things are nice and pleasant like fair weather, but when things turn stormy they leave.

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02-22-2009, 07:25 PM
  #83
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For me, this isn't about the team doing badly. It goes deeper than that. I had season tix from 98 till the lockout and went to every game. This is more about lousy ownership that can't build a winning organization while sh**ting on the fans. James Dolan at his finest.

I am the die hardest of the die hards but I am at the end of my rope.

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Old
02-22-2009, 07:57 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
Well, I'm glad I got people thinking. I like to stir the pot.

Oh, and I'll still be watching every single game on TV, and going to a few games a year. I'll still know every player in the organization, and I'll always be a loyal Ranger fan, as I have since 1989! (I'm 30)

The point of this post was just to make people think, not to ruin anyone's entertainment. Although I'm not sure how entertaining this team is right now!

Go Rangers!!
ok so basically you posted something idiotic to get attention, while actually still doing everything you spoke out against. Just checking.

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02-22-2009, 08:26 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by ilovetheflyers8 View Post
No a fairweather fan is someone who stops supporting a team when they are doing badly, like a person who only sticks with something when things are nice and pleasant like fair weather, but when things turn stormy they leave.
Thank you!! Good post!! From a Flyers fan. I was told that I'm less of a "die hard" Rangers fan because I used to go to games at the Garden proudly wearing my Rangers Jersey when they went through that period of missing the playoffs 7 years ago. I don't understand that at all. Maybe someone else can explain it to me.

Like some one said, life moves too fast and with all the stressors out there, I find some relief, watching the game I love so much. It just so happens, the Rangers are my favorite team. The other thing is I don't believe Sather is out to hurt this team. If he signs Gomez, Drury, Rozsival and Redden and people feel it was a huge mistake fine. But as long as their "busting it" wearing Rangers blue, I'll cheer for them.

For all those who say that's being "a rah, rah fan" and to get my pom poms, you know what two words I have for you.

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02-22-2009, 08:32 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
Well, I'm glad I got people thinking. I like to stir the pot.

Oh, and I'll still be watching every single game on TV, and going to a few games a year. I'll still know every player in the organization, and I'll always be a loyal Ranger fan, as I have since 1989! (I'm 30)

The point of this post was just to make people think, not to ruin anyone's entertainment. Although I'm not sure how entertaining this team is right now!

Go Rangers!!
That's fine and there's nothing wrong with that either. Me too, 1989! John Ogrodnick was the leading scorer that year!!

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Old
02-22-2009, 08:42 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
ok so basically you posted something idiotic to get attention, while actually still doing everything you spoke out against. Just checking.
it's not idiotic whatsoever; maybe read the whole thread. I seek attention only from hot chicks, not people on a message board. My point was relevant, and valid.

And let me correct myself, I haven't been to any games yet this year, and probably won't. I usually go to like 2 or 3 a year, and I get the tickets for free, so my financial output is $0.00. And I'm no less of a fan than someone that shells out thousands for seats.


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Old
02-22-2009, 09:37 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by xevious View Post
For me, this isn't about the team doing badly.
Agreed. Wins, losses, and standings mean much less to me than the product. No matter how the night ends on the scoreboard, did I get to watch high intensity hockey with lots of effort and a firm sense the players love playing hockey competitively and like playing with each other? If the team is playing that way, there will be hitting, and turnovers, scoring opportinities, and visible chemistry. Out of all those things will come an entertaining game, win or lose. That's money and time well spent.

For too much of this team, too much of the time, that just isn't the case. Mediocre product.

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02-22-2009, 10:05 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
it's not idiotic whatsoever; maybe read the whole thread. I seek attention only from hot chicks, not people on a message board. My point was relevant, and valid.

And let me correct myself, I haven't been to any games yet this year, and probably won't. I usually go to like 2 or 3 a year, and I get the tickets for free, so my financial output is $0.00. And I'm no less of a fan than someone that shells out thousands for seats.
Soooo...you're advocating being a fairweather fan unless you can get the tickets for free? What about those of us who aren't lucky enough to have your connections? Are our choices left at boycotting the team entirely or being part of the problem?

And don't say that you want people to boycott the team but it's ok to watch the games on TV. Every team is supported by good television ratings, to say nothing of the team whose owner also happens to own a major cable service.

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Old
02-22-2009, 10:13 PM
  #90
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The fans were such tools tonight. One second booing the team and chanting Fire Sather/Renney, next second cheering wildly and chanting Lets Go Rangers, next second booing and chanting Fire Renney/Sather, next minute cheering wildly...and then they lose.

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Old
02-22-2009, 11:33 PM
  #91
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In theory, yes, it works. But, having fans turn away makes about as much sense as those chain emails of 'don't buy gas day,' in other words, it's far fetched to say the least.

Give it time, the teams performance plays a massive role in how Dolan checks his pockets. A good team means happy fans, means full houses, means happy owners. Surely this doesn't reassure anyone for the near future, as everyone wants Glen daddy fired ASAP, but long term a franchise and it's financial's will not make the owners happy with angry supporters.

Just my look at it, an unhappy fan base will eventually get what they want, but New York fans are inherently obsessed with instant gratification, so it won't be good enough.

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Old
02-23-2009, 07:52 AM
  #92
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AT LEAST ****ING SHOW YOUR EMOTIONS SOMEWHERE!

instead of having an useless eternal conversation on ****ing hfboards !!

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02-23-2009, 09:37 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
How about Penguin fans? They got to see their team go to a Stanley Cup final last year and everyone was cheering on the Pens in Pittsburgh. This year and at this point. What should Penguin fans do? Not go to games? Not watch games? That sound's like a "fair weather" fan to me.
As usual, completely irrelevant point. The Penguins are struggling not because of terrible mismanagement, but because of tremendous injury problems. If the Rangers were struggling like they were because Lundqvist had missed half the season and Staal had missed the entire season, no one would be complaining. Similarly, if the Rangers had went to the Stanley Cup Finals last season and were having an off year due to injuries, there wouldn't be much *****ing going around.

Quote:
If you, or I, and a group of friends want to go to a Ranger game, it would make us less than "die hard fans?" What should we do? Not go see the team we love because some idiot thinks it makes us more of a fan too just "suck it up" and fight your desire to go have a good time with your friends at a Rangers game? Maybe be put in straight jackets?
Wait a minute? I thought you are a die-hard fan? See, when I go to games with my friends, and the team plays as terribly as this team has been playing all season, we don't have a good time. It isn't fun for me to watch the team get it's ass handed to it on a nightly basis. Maybe you are a glutton for punishment, but not everyone else is.

Oh, and if you want to call me an idiot, please have the courage to do so to my face instead of clearly referencing my post and doing it anonymously. Might want to grow up and learn how to have a discussion with normal people instead of resorting to insults.

Quote:
With the Rangers current situation. It makes someone more of a fan than myself, because I don't wish to see the Rangers take a nose dive into the basement of the Eastern conference so that my team gets a high end draft pick?
Where I come from, if you truly support a team, you want what's best for it. You don't blindly cheer for it when it's obvious that the team is going down the drain. Choosing to abstain from supporting a team in situations like this is no slight against the franchise or it's tradition, or your own fanhood. It's a statement against the people in charge.

It's just like a political protest, except obviously on a much smaller and less important scale. If you are dissatisfied with your leadership as an American citizen, and want to make it known; if you strongly believe that the people in charge are making major mistakes that will have terrible long-term ramifications, it is within your rights, nay, it is your responsibility, to help change the path. Supporting poor leadership simply because they happen to be associated with the same name you are associated with is foolhardy.

Continuing to cheer and buy tickets is a sign to the people in charge of this team that you not only support the horrendous job they've done, but that you enjoy paying for the **** they've been feeding you. As far as they are concerned, you not only are satisfied with the product they offer, you want more of the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR6814 View Post
Another excellent post.

For the OP: This is part of the point I was trying to make. If the team isn't winning, I should stop watching to "prove a point"? Do you think anyone would give two *****? No. Watching when a team is winning and turning your back when the team is losing is the textbook definition of a "fairweather fan". What the hell do you expect? To win the Stanley Cup every year? The team might be having a rough year, yes. If you don't want to watch, then YOU should stop watching or root for another team that suits your needs better. For me, I'll cheer for this team if they lose every single game or win every single game. That's what it means to be a fan.
That's what it means to be a fan in YOUR opinion. No one expects to win the Stanley Cup every year. What I'd like, however, is for my team to not make the same mistakes over and over again and then expect me to happy about it and pay MORE money for it. I'm not a buffoon and I don't appreciate being treated like one by an organization that I have spent quite a bit of money on in my lifetime. What I'd like is a clear display from the team that rather than simply taking my money, they are concerned with improving their product. Not only do I not get that sense from this team, but I strongly believe that the people in charge of the team are making tremendously poor decisions. I don't want to see another season like this one, yet I'm confident that not only will we see one more season like this one, we're going to see several more. At least. I guess you're a better fan than I am because that doesn't bother you, right? I must not be a real fan because watching my team sputter game in and game out like a 70's Pinto isn't my idea of a good time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetheflyers8 View Post
No a fairweather fan is someone who stops supporting a team when they are doing badly, like a person who only sticks with something when things are nice and pleasant like fair weather, but when things turn stormy they leave.
And what about fans, like myself, who stuck by the team for years and years of futility only to have ticket prices raised on them for the exact same kind of futility and decisions that will lead to more of the same? What kind of fan am I?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xevious View Post
For me, this isn't about the team doing badly. It goes deeper than that. I had season tix from 98 till the lockout and went to every game. This is more about lousy ownership that can't build a winning organization while sh**ting on the fans. James Dolan at his finest.

I am the die hardest of the die hards but I am at the end of my rope.
Exactly. I want what's best for this team and it is the same thing I've wanted since 1998. I want this team to re-build and stop signing big name free agents just because they can. I want this team to be good. I don't want to look up the history of the New York Rangers year after year and see 80+ years of existence and just four Stanley Cups. That is a sad, sad stat. I want to see this team be good. What is wrong with that? I don't want to wait 54 years for a Cup like my older Ranger brethren.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
Thank you!! Good post!! From a Flyers fan. I was told that I'm less of a "die hard" Rangers fan because I used to go to games at the Garden proudly wearing my Rangers Jersey when they went through that period of missing the playoffs 7 years ago. I don't understand that at all. Maybe someone else can explain it to me.
You continue to refer to the 7 years before the lockout, and how hard it was for you, and what a great fan you were, yet now, when the team is making the same mistakes again, you don't seem phased by it at all.

If you didn't like those 7 years, why would you want another 7 eerily similar ones? Why would you continue to pay and cheer and support the people responsible for 4 of those 7 years, and responsible for taking this team back into a very similar direction. Remember those teams? The ones with the high priced free agent acquisitions that just barely missed the playoffs?

Doesn't that sound familiar? Isn't that exactly what is happening to this team right now? AGAIN?

Quote:
Like some one said, life moves too fast and with all the stressors out there, I find some relief, watching the game I love so much. It just so happens, the Rangers are my favorite team. The other thing is I don't believe Sather is out to hurt this team. If he signs Gomez, Drury, Rozsival and Redden and people feel it was a huge mistake fine. But as long as their "busting it" wearing Rangers blue, I'll cheer for them.

For all those who say that's being "a rah, rah fan" and to get my pom poms, you know what two words I have for you.
And I wouldn't expect anything more than those two words from you.

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Old
02-23-2009, 10:22 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
It's like the economy; instead of wasting money on a gigantic pseudo-stimulus package that will end up weakening the dollar, and prolonging the problem, they, like Ranger fans, should NOT throw money at the problem, and let the market (and the team) correct itself.
We've got to do the stimulus because we cannot get into new war real fast for well known reasons.
It is not like economy. There is no cap there. If not for the cap we would be fine. Or we could have spent all the time discussing Jagr's poor performance or his great plays... Who knows...

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02-23-2009, 12:13 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Fans deal with too much **** in everyday life to give up this game and this team in hopes of it helping, thats ridiculous.

This is the one thing that can take our minds off the economy, work and ******** we deal with in our lives on a daily basis and no matter how freaking frustrating this team is, theres always that glimmer of hope at the start of the game and the feeling inside when the Rangers get a goal (this year few and far between)

I understand where you are coming from, no offense... but you can kiss my ass when you say its the fans fault, i dont care how relative or significant it really is in the big picture with this team.

I'll watch every game to the end. Thats why you consider yourself a die hard.
Very good post.

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Old
02-23-2009, 01:07 PM
  #96
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I don't think that there is an owner of any team, in any sport, who doesn't want their team to be successful. The difference is that some owners do a better job of ensuring their teams' success by hiring the right personnel. What owner would be willing to miss out on the playoffs, where they will grab a large percentage of the revenues versus the players, just because they do well during the regular season? Every additional game means more tickets sold, more concessions, etc. Winning teams also sell a lot more merchandise than teams that lose, meaning more money for the owner.

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02-23-2009, 02:10 PM
  #97
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A true fan will root for and support his team no matter what. It doesn't matter if they are losing or the organization has flaws, a true fan will be there in support of their team. Being a horrible fan doesn't solve anything. The most we can do as fans is continue to root for our team and give them support. Don't misunderstand me, we can express our displeasure about what management is doing, but ultimately this is still OUR TEAM and we need to stand behind them. That is what being a fan is.

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Old
02-23-2009, 02:33 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by MCHNYG View Post
A true fan will root for and support his team no matter what. It doesn't matter if they are losing or the organization has flaws, a true fan will be there in support of their team. Being a horrible fan doesn't solve anything. The most we can do as fans is continue to root for our team and give them support. Don't misunderstand me, we can express our displeasure about what management is doing, but ultimately this is still OUR TEAM and we need to stand behind them. That is what being a fan is.
Yeah, i'll remember that about our fanbase the next time we have a pregame ceremony and our players are booed...during a ceremony

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Old
02-23-2009, 02:58 PM
  #99
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Yeah, i'll remember that about our fanbase the next time we have a pregame ceremony and our players are booed...during a ceremony
That was pretty low...

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