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Old
02-23-2009, 12:20 PM
  #51
Brian28
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Originally Posted by Urkie View Post
I only brought this up because Garrioch said the Sens have interest in Smid. You don't have to thrash me.

This flavor of the week reasoning is a little dumb as well. Vermette is easily worth Smid and then some.
Only to a team who needs a forward more than a shutdown D. Edmonton needs the shutdown D and therefore as the value to Edmonton goes: Smid>>>Vermette. In this trade proposal it doesn't matter who the Sens would value more as it's Edmonton who decides to pull the trigger or not. If it was Edmonton proposing the trade then it would be the Sens who got last pull on the trigger.

As it stands now Smid is more valuable to Edmonton than the majority of the Sens. Heatley, Spezza, Volchenkov would be the big three targets from an Edmonton standpoint but Ottawa isn't going to give them up...and rightfully so.

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Old
02-23-2009, 12:27 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
Only to a team who needs a forward more than a shutdown D. Edmonton needs the shutdown D and therefore as the value to Edmonton goes: Smid>>>Vermette. In this trade proposal it doesn't matter who the Sens would value more as it's Edmonton who decides to pull the trigger or not. If it was Edmonton proposing the trade then it would be the Sens who got last pull on the trigger.

As it stands now Smid is more valuable to Edmonton than the majority of the Sens. Heatley, Spezza, Volchenkov would be the big three targets from an Edmonton standpoint but Ottawa isn't going to give them up...and rightfully so.
Fair enough. I see the predicament but value wise Vermette is equal to Smid without taking needs into consideration.

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Old
02-23-2009, 12:43 PM
  #53
Brian28
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Originally Posted by Urkie View Post
Fair enough. I see the predicament but value wise Vermette is equal to Smid without taking needs into consideration.
You always have to take needs into consideration. There is no such thing as straight up value. The value is always conditional upon the team trading with. For example Souray. Souray is amazing this year and has really proven himself to be worth the contract and more than just a defensively liable shot from the blue. Bearing in mind how many teams would love to add him either for a playoff role or as a long term addition the value would fluctuate wildly.

Detroit has one of if not the best D in the league. Sourays value to Detroit would be very small compared to someone else who might need a 1st/2nd line d-man. Calgary wouldn't need Smid as a stay at home type, but there's other teams that would pay quite well for a young developing stay at home type. Toronto would like to unload Kaberle, but Edmonton wouldn't be a top destination as we've got 4 puck rushers already...do you honestly believe Edmonton would pay just as much as a team making a cup run or a team who needed a 1st line puck mover? The value is always factored around the team you're trading with or it's completely unreasonable and you'll get flamed.

A lot of these flame trade threads are people trying to push the absolute value agenda to bring back the best return for their team despite the player being needed or not. You'll avoid a lot of flaming if you consider what a team needs and then try to trade them that player instead of trying to trade the best asset your team has to another team for a high return.

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Old
02-23-2009, 06:13 PM
  #54
Asquaredx2
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Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
Did you bother to read the entire post? I specifically stated Ottawa isn't iving up what Edmonton really needs and Edmonton isn't overpaying for Ottawa's rentals this year.
I interpreted "Ottawa isn't giving up what Edmonton really needs" as being in regards to the original proposal.

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Old
02-23-2009, 06:20 PM
  #55
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To Ottawa I would say they value a scoring winger more than a shutdown D right now. Smid's decent but Ottawa doesn't need him.

The only player that I could see Edmonton having interest in is perhaps Mike Fisher and that would probably require a d-man going the other way, something like Fisher and a 3rd for Grebeshkov.

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Old
02-23-2009, 06:48 PM
  #56
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Smid is overrated. He did nothing in Edmonton, why would the Sens want to acquire him?

I do agree that Kuba will likely be on the way out, but it doesn't seem to make the Sens better (either now, or next year).

As a practical matter, the Sens have:
Lee
Karlsson
Campoli
Smith
Phillips
Volchenkov
Bell
and I think a few others under contract... How does adding Smid make them better?

There isn't really anyone on the Oilers I would consider a good return package.

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