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A. Kostitsyn Stats (w/ regards to pairings)

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Old
02-23-2009, 10:31 PM
  #26
Cenzo_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
So...

9 pts in 27 games with Kovalev (26 with Plekanec, 1 with Lang)
29 pts in 29 games away from Kovalev

Hmm.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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02-23-2009, 10:44 PM
  #27
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Not that it would turn out this way, but based on this...

If he played the whole season with Kovalev: 82 games - 15 goals - 12 assists - 27 points

If he never played with Kovalev:
82 games - 48 goals - 34 assists - 82 points


Can't wait to see him without Kovalev all of next year

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02-23-2009, 11:24 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
So...

9 pts in 27 games with Kovalev (26 with Plekanec, 1 with Lang)
29 pts in 29 games away from Kovalev

Hmm.
Amazing what he can do without a ball and chain isn't it?

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02-23-2009, 11:29 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Amazing what he can do without a ball and chain isn't it?
yet our favorite jack adams nominee keeps them together

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02-23-2009, 11:40 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey View Post
Not that it would turn out this way, but based on this...

If he played the whole season with Kovalev: 82 games - 15 goals - 12 assists - 27 points

If he never played with Kovalev:
82 games - 48 goals - 34 assists - 82 points


Can't wait to see him without Kovalev all of next year

I have said it and I will say it again. Kovalev is a black whole who sucks the production of everyone on his line away from them. (this year)

If Kovalev changes only these two things we have an awesome asset

- Pass le puck
- Dump le puck (when up against 3-4 players)

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Old
02-23-2009, 11:41 PM
  #31
lou4gehrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Amazing what he can do without a ball and chain isn't it?
Just wait until Kovalev realizes his full potential. Then you'll see. Just wait. Huh? 35? 15 years in the league? Yeah, but he's the most skilled player ever to walk on the Earth.

Can't wait until he's gone.

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02-23-2009, 11:51 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
yet our favorite jack adams nominee keeps them together
You (and some others) need to realize that Carbonneau is not the problem on this line. When Kovalev was motivated, when he put in his ****ing mind that he wanted to play last year, they were our best line out there. Because Lord Kovy now chooses to pack it in for yet another season, Carbonneau is responsible? I don't buy the Kool-Aid!

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02-24-2009, 12:02 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
You (and some others) need to realize that Carbonneau is not the problem on this line. When Kovalev was motivated, when he put in his ****ing mind that he wanted to play last year, they were our best line out there. Because Lord Kovy now chooses to pack it in for yet another season, Carbonneau is responsible? I don't buy the Kool-Aid!
so why the **** do they play together????? carbo is not the problem ON the line. but he is the one that MAKES the line. he is the coach. he makes the final decision on who plays with who.

please tell me why??

i know carbo is completely incompetent as a coach but is he blind as well?? can he not read the exact same stats a fan is able to see???

if, as u say, kovy is a ball and chain, why would he place our best offensive player alongside him when everything that has happened this year shows he plays amazing without kovy.

the stats speak for themselves. andrei has now matured into the player we hoped he would become when we drafted him. it is time for him to be the go to guy on his line. it is time for him to be the player both linemates look for. that is exactly what kovy is. you cant have 2 similar players like that play on the same line imo.

that is why i think andrei is a different player than last year and also why this line wont work like it did last year. andrei wants the puck now. he needs the puck now as opposed to last year when he was fine with kovy making the plays. judging by how he has performed without kovy he knows he can be succesful like that.

considering i do agree with a lot you say on this board, i dont know how you do not agree with some of what i say in regards to carbo. imo he has done nothing to show he can be a good head coach in this league right now and imo has not shown any progress whatsoever his 3 years! it has always been our goalies and the powerplay which have led to any success for this team. 5 on 5 has always been our weakness.


Last edited by holyhabs87: 02-24-2009 at 12:15 AM.
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Old
02-24-2009, 12:51 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by rgolt View Post
is there anybody who can send this to habs i/o or eric engels on hockeybuzz or somebody who can make people see this.

i really want people to fully comprehend the the andre pleks kovi like does not work and for carbo to stop trying to force it
don't worry
next 2-3 games will prove carbo wrong and he will juggle lines again

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02-24-2009, 12:54 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by redmachine54 View Post
Just some Andrei Kostitsyn stats with regards to the players he was paired with. Note that I'm not trying to promote a certain trio really, and if I was, well, these stats don't really favor the trio I'd be advocating anyway. These are just a summary of some stats I think people here might be interested in. If you're interested in other stats (with regards to AKost, since he's all I've done), let me know.

Remember, these are statistics: they're just numbers, they don't take into account hot streaks, slumps, etc.

The stats shown are Andrei's stats when playing on that trio for the majority of a game. I could do other players, but it takes awhile... note that the ordering of players is LW-C-RW, and that it is sorted by points, then goals, then games played, then plus-minus.

Scoring Per Trio
A. Kostitsyn - Lang - S. Kostitsyn: 12GP, 8-5-13, Even
A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev: 26GP, 5-4-9, Even
Pacioretty - Plekanec - A. Kostitsyn: 2GP, 2-3-5, +2
A. Kostitsyn - Koivu - D'Agostini: 5GP, 2-2-4, +3
A. Kostitsyn - Higgins - Dandenault: 2GP, 2-0-2, +1
Latendresse - Plekanec - A. Kostitsyn: 2GP, 1-1-2, -2
A. Kostitsyn - Lapierre - S. Kostitsyn: 1GP, 1-1-2, +2
A. Kostitsyn - Lang - Kostopoulos: 2GP, 1-0-1, Even
A. Kostitsyn - Maxwell - D'Agostini: 2GP, 0-0-0, Even
A. Kostitsyn - Lang - Kovalev: 1GP, 0-0-0, -1
A. Kostitsyn - Higgins - Kostopoulos: 1GP, 0-0-0, -3

These show Kostitsyn's stats when paired with a specific player. Note that Andrei has (as of Feb. 21) 56 GP, 22-16-38, +2... so you can figure out the math when not playing with a player.

Scoring When Paired With...
Plekanec: 30GP, 8-8-16, Even
S. Kostitsyn: 13GP, 9-6-15, +2
Lang: 15GP, 9-5-14, -1
Kovalev: 27GP, 5-4-9, -1
Pacioretty: 2GP, 2-3-5, +2
D'Agostini: 7GP, 2-2-4, +3
Koivu: 5GP, 2-2-4, +3
Dandenault: 2GP, 2-0-2, +1
Latendresse: 2GP, 1-1-2, -2
Lapierre: 1GP, 1-1-2, +2
Kostopoulos: 3GP, 1-0-1, -3
Maxwell: 2GP, 0-0-0, Even

Enjoy (or not).
can you also find the number of shots made by andrei while playing with kovy on the same line and without

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Old
02-24-2009, 01:10 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by superstar436 View Post
can you also find the number of shots made by andrei while playing with kovy on the same line and without
Sure. He has 54 shots in 27 games on Kovalev's line, 78 in 29 games not on Kovalev's line.

Other notes...

Shots While Paired With...
Plekanec - 66 shots in 30 games
Kovalev - 54 shots in 27 games
Lang - 37 shots in 15 games
S. Kostitsyn - 34 shots in 13 games
D'Agostini - 18 shots in 7 games
Koivu - 17 shots in 5 games
Pacioretty - 8 shots in 2 games
Kostopoulos - 8 shots in 3 games
Dandenault - 5 shots in 2 games
Latendresse - 5 shots in 2 games
Lapierre - 3 shots in 1 game
Maxwell - 1 shot in 2 games

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Old
02-24-2009, 01:21 AM
  #37
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A Kost only has 132 SOG this season (Kovalev and Plek both have 154). That's freakin' embarassing. He's suppose to be our top line winger. He needs to be on the right wing the rest of his career and Kovafloat needs his "star" status removed.

Ovy has 380 shots on goal. Almost 3 times more. How do you think players score 50+ goals? They shoot 350+ times a season.

Imagine getting a real pass first type of center like Savard or Thornton on this team? A Kost would score 50 every season. Maybe Gomez?

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Old
02-24-2009, 01:21 AM
  #38
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the most important statistic as to why carbo should put a-kost on another line:

Habs record when A-kost scores 1 point: 16-4-3

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Old
02-24-2009, 01:22 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
I have said it and I will say it again. Kovalev is a black whole who sucks the production of everyone on his line away from them. (this year)

If Kovalev changes only these two things we have an awesome asset

- Pass le puck
- Dump le puck (when up against 3-4 players)
I tend to believe that its not just Kovalev's fault that lines aren't productive when he is on them, alot of his linemates just sit there and watch and expect him to make the plays.

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02-24-2009, 01:23 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I tend to believe that its not just Kovalev's fault that lines aren't productive when he is on them, alot of his linemates just sit there and watch and expect him to make the plays.
Or they have given up trying to get him to pass and they just wait for him to turn it over.

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02-24-2009, 01:28 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I tend to believe that its not just Kovalev's fault that lines aren't productive when he is on them, alot of his linemates just sit there and watch and expect him to make the plays.
Exactly.

Kovalev doesn't dump the puck in often, which is a fault. But he does pass the puck (see Plekanec's goal last game). I really don't think he's that much of a puck hog. He does try more one on one (or one on three) moves than the average player, but that's because he's not the average player. You all freak out whenever it works, but whine about it the rest of the time. That's the price you pay for a talented, creative player. If you want someone to dump and chase, call Steve Begin.

If Kostitsyn isn't producing on Kovalev's line, then I'd put 80% of the blame on Kostitsyn, 10% on Carboneau for not making a move and 10% on Kovalev for not utilizing his linemate better.

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02-24-2009, 01:31 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Or they have given up trying to get him to pass and they just wait for him to turn it over.
You do know that he has the second most assists on the team right?

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02-24-2009, 01:33 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
You do know that he has the second most assists on the team right?
Ironic isn't it that a thread based on cold hard math devolves into ignoring... cold hard math

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02-24-2009, 01:37 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
You do know that he has the second most assists on the team right?
Yeah and only 59th best in all of the NHL. Right on par with Bertuzzi and Dominic Moore.

We'd be better offer with Todd White, Dominic Moore, Slava Kozlov, Ray Whitney than Kovalev.

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02-24-2009, 01:40 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
You do know that he has the second most assists on the team right?
Yeah, but as a counter-ish point, he (and Plekanec) get a boatload more time on the ice than the rest of the guys. Powerplay too. They should certainly have more points considering the ice time. Or, atleast shouldn't average 30 minutes of ice time between points.

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02-24-2009, 01:41 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
Exactly.

Kovalev doesn't dump the puck in often, which is a fault. But he does pass the puck (see Plekanec's goal last game). I really don't think he's that much of a puck hog. He does try more one on one (or one on three) moves than the average player, but that's because he's not the average player. You all freak out whenever it works, but whine about it the rest of the time. That's the price you pay for a talented, creative player. If you want someone to dump and chase, call Steve Begin.

If Kostitsyn isn't producing on Kovalev's line, then I'd put 80% of the blame on Kostitsyn, 10% on Carboneau for not making a move and 10% on Kovalev for not utilizing his linemate better.
i can understand this.

but lets not act like his dekin 3 players has amounted to much if anything at all this year. he might get past the intital 2 forwards..then go behind the net with a d on his back and center a weak pass in the middle, ultimately creating a turnover.

you put a lot of blame on a-kost.dont you think it is a little hard for a 2nd year player to go to kovy and tell him, "hey listen buddy..give me the puck, let me carry it in the zone a few times. look at my numbers without you, i am capable of doing what you do now. you helped me play better last year...so now its time for you to let me help make you better." if anyone were to say that, it would be gainey. but lets face it, it is hard to break old habits.

nobody can tell kovy to change his game. at the end of the day, if kovy wants to create something, he will try to carry the play. he will revert back to trying to deke 3 players rather than using his linemates.

or maybe im wrong and kovy saw a-kost and plek play well without him and maybe he trusts them to make more plays. we will be able to tell in a week or so.

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02-24-2009, 01:46 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
Ironic isn't it that a thread based on cold hard math devolves into ignoring... cold hard math
I actually feel kind of bad for making this thread in light of the responses (I predicted some Kovalev negativity, but not this much). I'm of the mind that Kostitsyn should be separated from Kovalev, but for a reason that buddha stated: Andrei and Plekanec seem to wait for Kovalev to do something, rather than try and help him do it. Maybe it's an "awe" factor, maybe it's shyness, I don't know, but I think all parties might benefit from a little separatoin.

I think if the veterans were put together, it might make for an interesting scenario. I think guys like Koivu and Tanguay wouldn't mind dishing to Kovalev; yet I'm also cautious that they all might try to be the go-to guys on a line and the situation wouldn't end nicely.

Thankfully, I don't have to make these decisions.

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02-24-2009, 01:57 AM
  #48
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Yeah, but as a counter-ish point, he (and Plekanec) get a boatload more time on the ice than the rest of the guys. Powerplay too. They should certainly have more points considering the ice time. Or, atleast shouldn't average 30 minutes of ice time between points.
Oh man, I know and agree, I was simply just stated a fact, albeit quite smug, that some others were ignoring when they said that Kovalev "doesn't pass", which is simply not true.

I find Kovalev often is left out to dry by his linemates. Alot of the time I will see him have the puck, and instead of a linemate going to a open spot for a pass, or staying with the play for support, just expect Kovalev to magically do everything himself and pass a cross crease tap in for them to glorify themselves with. Kovalev has a very dynamic playing style yes, but that doesn't mean he is intellectually dumb, quite the opposite. Kovalev knows the game better than anyone on the team, he also has more talent than anyone on the team, but those things don't always translate to success, obviously.
I see Kovalev trying to make passes that are harder than they need to be because players are not being smart and reading off him. He likes to carry the puck and coordinate the plays, but he is definitely not inept without the puck...when was the last time that you saw a linemate of Kovalev's find him in a spot where he could just easily tap the puck in(I am going to exempt Markov on this statement, because of his trademark cross seam pass on the PP)? I think that players on the team still haven't figured out totally how to play with Kovalev, even players that have played on his line in the past and for extended periods. But that doesn't mean that he couldn't give more effort out there, because he could...but I hate when people place all the blame on him, because when I watch the games, I see his linemates not producing as well alot of the time.

I will use an example of a goal last game against Ottawa to correlate my point a bit better. You guys seem to think that Andrei can't play well with Kovalev on his line and seem to lead on that it's Kovalev fault, well lets see here:

This goal was the first goal of the night, on the PP I believe. Alfredsson has the puck on the far boards ready to clear but Andrei comes in an impedes him well, using his body he is able to win a puck battle on the boards. Andrei then takes the puck out to the blueline where he leaves it for I believe Markov, could have been Schneider. From there, Andrei moves to the near boards and stretches out the box to leave Kovalev open in the slot, Kovalev recieves the pass, and using his hockey intelligence realises Pleks over in the backdoor area and moves the puck to him for a wideopen shot into the goal. This is what I want to see Andrei doing out there with Kovalev on his line. He needs to make plays on the boards, he needs to get his nose dirty a bit, and when he wins that puck, he needs to get open and spread out defenses and make room for Kovalev. You give Kovalev room, and he will make it hurt, he will find a way to put it in the net whether by shot or a pass. So I think alot of it is up to Andrei, and if he can learn and be willing to play to his ability out there on Kovalev's line, I think they will be successful.

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02-24-2009, 03:11 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I tend to believe that its not just Kovalev's fault that lines aren't productive when he is on them, alot of his linemates just sit there and watch and expect him to make the plays.
Watch him in the transition game...

Kovalev has the puck in our zone, there are two opponents right inside our blueline, he tries to take it out by himself, they manage to take it away from him and we are still in our zone having lost the puck and are probably out of position. The more time we spend in our zone, the more pressure/stress we are under and the more likely we are to make a mistake in coverage/assignements which is usually how a goal happens (for the other team)

Kovalev now has the puck in the neutral zone, we are on a PP, he attempts to go in against two players, we lose the puck, they dump it back and we waste 10 seconds recovering it all the way from our end of the ice. The powerplay was and had been until Schneider came disastrous. This made our team even more frustrated, stressed and stiff on the powerplay. Stiff sticks receiving passes, stiff sticks shooting, over thinking, over passing leading to mistakes and a more inept and impotent powerplay.


Kovalev is not the only person at fault. The biggest mistake has been Bob Gainey's non re-signing of Mark Streit, which has lead to our PP woes, we've been shooting blanks from the point and teams didn't respect that until Schneider came back.

What I'm saying is that Kovalev could do better, and him not being as good as he should be should have been called out a long time ago. Here now part of the blame can lie on Carbo. He displayed preferential and star treatment to a player that wasn't playing like a star, because that's not what he is anymore. (Personally I think this made him almost lose the locker room)


Actually there's alot of blame to go around. We aren't all Kovalev haters, we are just Hab fans trying to find and identify the problems, and since we are fans we don't just want to complain about it we want to find the solutions.

I just want the team to win the Stanley Cup. I could care less who we ice as long as we win that damn cup.

That's all I want, every year

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02-24-2009, 04:24 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Oh man, I know and agree, I was simply just stated a fact, albeit quite smug, that some others were ignoring when they said that Kovalev "doesn't pass", which is simply not true.

I find Kovalev often is left out to dry by his linemates. Alot of the time I will see him have the puck, and instead of a linemate going to a open spot for a pass, or staying with the play for support, just expect Kovalev to magically do everything himself and pass a cross crease tap in for them to glorify themselves with. Kovalev has a very dynamic playing style yes, but that doesn't mean he is intellectually dumb, quite the opposite. Kovalev knows the game better than anyone on the team, he also has more talent than anyone on the team, but those things don't always translate to success, obviously.
I see Kovalev trying to make passes that are harder than they need to be because players are not being smart and reading off him. He likes to carry the puck and coordinate the plays, but he is definitely not inept without the puck...when was the last time that you saw a linemate of Kovalev's find him in a spot where he could just easily tap the puck in(I am going to exempt Markov on this statement, because of his trademark cross seam pass on the PP)? I think that players on the team still haven't figured out totally how to play with Kovalev, even players that have played on his line in the past and for extended periods. But that doesn't mean that he couldn't give more effort out there, because he could...but I hate when people place all the blame on him, because when I watch the games, I see his linemates not producing as well alot of the time.

I will use an example of a goal last game against Ottawa to correlate my point a bit better. You guys seem to think that Andrei can't play well with Kovalev on his line and seem to lead on that it's Kovalev fault, well lets see here:

This goal was the first goal of the night, on the PP I believe. Alfredsson has the puck on the far boards ready to clear but Andrei comes in an impedes him well, using his body he is able to win a puck battle on the boards. Andrei then takes the puck out to the blueline where he leaves it for I believe Markov, could have been Schneider. From there, Andrei moves to the near boards and stretches out the box to leave Kovalev open in the slot, Kovalev recieves the pass, and using his hockey intelligence realises Pleks over in the backdoor area and moves the puck to him for a wideopen shot into the goal. This is what I want to see Andrei doing out there with Kovalev on his line. He needs to make plays on the boards, he needs to get his nose dirty a bit, and when he wins that puck, he needs to get open and spread out defenses and make room for Kovalev. You give Kovalev room, and he will make it hurt, he will find a way to put it in the net whether by shot or a pass. So I think alot of it is up to Andrei, and if he can learn and be willing to play to his ability out there on Kovalev's line, I think they will be successful.
Kovalev is being «left out to dry» by linemates who «just expect Kovalev to magically do everything himself» and «glorify themselves» because of the result of his plays? Maybe, Plekanec and Akost are the ones that don't deserve him after all. Carbo should «demote» them permanently to the 2nd or 3rd line.

Kovalev gets some blame because he's being played by Carbonneau as the guy who should drive the offense. If it's about Kovalev in good times, it's about Kovalev in bad times. How about trying Kovalev on is off wing? How about trying lines buit around other players with Kovalev on them, instead of the other way around. If his load of responsibilities diminishes he'll be more immune to criticism...


Last edited by Erik Estrada: 02-24-2009 at 04:34 AM.
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