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Old
02-24-2009, 09:33 AM
  #1
gearharb
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Buf/det

To BUF:

Valterri Filppula (3,000,000 4 yrs remaining)
Chris Osgood (1.4m 2yrs remaining)

4.4m salary

To DET:

Chris Butler (850,000 2yrs remaining RFA)
Jochen Hecht (3.5 3yrs remaining)
1st in '09

4.35m salary

Both teams will keep comparable payrolls. Butler is being groomed to be a Top 4 defenseman in BUF right now and would fit in nicely once Lidstrom retires. Hecht is the type of defensive forward that would thrive playing with Datsyuk/Zetterberg.

Filppula will become the Sabres 3rd center behind Roy and Connolly allowing Gaustad to move back into a checking role, which suits him better. If Connolly leaves via FA this summer Filppula would help ease the pain at center. Osgood would come in and take over immediately until Miller can return to action. Having a goalie with playoff experience is a major plus, but this also leaves Detroit with Conklin/Howard for their playoff push.

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Old
02-24-2009, 09:49 AM
  #2
solo16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearharb View Post
To BUF:

Valterri Filppula (3,000,000 4 yrs remaining)
Chris Osgood (1.4m 2yrs remaining)

4.4m salary

To DET:

Chris Butler (850,000 2yrs remaining RFA)
Jochen Hecht (3.5 3yrs remaining)
1st in '09

4.35m salary

Both teams will keep comparable payrolls. Butler is being groomed to be a Top 4 defenseman in BUF right now and would fit in nicely once Lidstrom retires. Hecht is the type of defensive forward that would thrive playing with Datsyuk/Zetterberg.

Filppula will become the Sabres 3rd center behind Roy and Connolly allowing Gaustad to move back into a checking role, which suits him better. If Connolly leaves via FA this summer Filppula would help ease the pain at center. Osgood would come in and take over immediately until Miller can return to action. Having a goalie with playoff experience is a major plus, but this also leaves Detroit with Conklin/Howard for their playoff push.
This is interesting on a few levels. First youd have to switch Butler with Brennan. Detroits defensive crops are a bit packed for next year and we need defensemen with AHL elgibility for another year or two.

Next year after chelios retires we will already have 8 NHL defensemen... With arguably our best prospect Kindl still in the AHL. So we need someone with 1-3 years of ahl eligibility ideally.

IMO Hetch is a downgrade on Filppula. He is slightly better this year i geuss but filp has the better contract and is the better "defensive forward". Hetch brings the experience. The 1st obviously compensates for this a bit. Osgood i dunno what his value is but its almost a bit of a salary dump. Id think ud have to take a bit of cap hit back. (as Howard/Conklin) is not the answer. And wed then sign a goalie.

If Hetch hit more and blocked more shots hed be ideal but he appears to be more of what we have plenty of... two way responsible players.

Kotalik would probably be the best fit for detroit.

Kotalik
1st
Brennan

Filpulla
Osgood
Meech/Lebda

OFC this only makes sense if u think Osgood has value. Im torn. On one hand i think hes garbage on the other in the right situation obviously he can win you a cup.

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Old
02-24-2009, 10:34 AM
  #3
Jame
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i thought the whole point of Detroit trading Filpulla was to get rid of salary to re-sign Hossa/Franzen?

Besides, I think Buf/Det fans already agreed on

MacArthur, Brennan
for
Filpulla

if you want Buffalo to take Osgood's salary off your hands we can expand it to include

MacArthur, Brennan, Numminen
for
Filpulla, Osgood, Lebda

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Old
02-24-2009, 10:38 AM
  #4
solo16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i thought the whole point of Detroit trading Filpulla was to get rid of salary to re-sign Hossa/Franzen?

Besides, I think Buf/Det fans already agreed on

MacArthur, Brennan
for
Filpulla

if you want Buffalo to take Osgood's salary off your hands we can expand it to include

MacArthur, Brennan, Numminen
for
Filpulla, Osgood, Lebda
OP is a Buffalo fan. Osgood aint exactly high salary. Even as a backup 1.5M isnt horrible just for the cup rings. As much as i think osgood sucks atm he will pull it together and we will get a few more years outta him.

The deal you quoted is the approved Filp salary dump deal. I still like it. Though Filp is racking up points playing with hossa lately back in his 2nd line center role.

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Old
02-24-2009, 10:43 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
OP is a Buffalo fan. Osgood aint exactly high salary. Even as a backup 1.5M isnt horrible just for the cup rings. As much as i think osgood sucks atm he will pull it together and we will get a few more years outta him.

The deal you quoted is the approved Filp salary dump deal. I still like it. Though Filp is racking up points playing with hossa lately back in his 2nd line center role.
i like the approved deal. Mac, TJ for Filp.... but i understand that it is more of an offseason deal, then a trade deadline deal.

Can't wait to discuss in more depth in the offseason.

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Old
02-24-2009, 10:49 AM
  #6
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Not really the type of return I'd want for Butler and a 1st. The Sabres are a team that builds through the draft well. Butler has been very solid in his rookie year for us.

Osgood won't have much use when Miller gets back (I'd much rather have him starting than Lalime until Miller does get back though but again not at that price). And Filppula won't be much of a need if we resign Connolly. He'd be on our 3rd line making $3 million. Besides, Gaustad is our 3rd line Center anyways.

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Old
02-24-2009, 10:53 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabrescrazedfan4 View Post
Not really the type of return I'd want for Butler and a 1st. The Sabres are a team that builds through the draft well. Butler has been very solid in his rookie year for us.

Osgood won't have much use when Miller gets back (I'd much rather have him starting than Lalime until Miller does get back though but again not at that price). And Filppula won't be much of a need if we resign Connolly. He'd be on our 3rd line making $3 million. Besides, Gaustad is our 3rd line Center anyways.
Well say what u will but even at 1.5M Osgood is a much better backup then Lalime.
Im not really advocating the trade but an Osgood/Miller tandum would be very good for you guys. Also Osgood is a good lockerroom guy. The extra 700k or so is an acceptable insurance policy should Miller get injured again.

Filppula is best used imo as a 2nd line center. I dont really like him in the checking role hes been playing most of this year. Hes a verstile player though he can play just about any of the top 9 forward spots... Save maybe 1st line center *just aint good enough for that.

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Old
02-24-2009, 11:07 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabrescrazedfan4 View Post
Not really the type of return I'd want for Butler and a 1st. The Sabres are a team that builds through the draft well. Butler has been very solid in his rookie year for us.

Osgood won't have much use when Miller gets back (I'd much rather have him starting than Lalime until Miller does get back though but again not at that price). And Filppula won't be much of a need if we resign Connolly. He'd be on our 3rd line making $3 million. Besides, Gaustad is our 3rd line Center anyways.
Connolly = UFA
Filpulla = signed for 4 more years

Im definitely in on an offseason MacArhtur, Brennan for Filpulla deal.

the original poster's deal is terrible and makes no sense. No way Buffalo is trading Butler and a 1st.

But I don't know why you think Osgood would be better than Lalime. That's kinda silly. Osgood has 31 starts and has worse Numbers than Lalime .... 3.29 /.879... and he plays behind one of the best teams in the league.

Osgood is washed up.

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Old
02-24-2009, 11:19 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Connolly = UFA
Filpulla = signed for 4 more years

Im definitely in on an offseason MacArhtur, Brennan for Filpulla deal.

the original poster's deal is terrible and makes no sense. No way Buffalo is trading Butler and a 1st.

But I don't know why you think Osgood would be better than Lalime. That's kinda silly. Osgood has 31 starts and has worse Numbers than Lalime .... 3.29 /.879... and he plays behind one of the best teams in the league.

Osgood is washed up.
He had some of the best numbers in the nhl last year and just won a cup. Its premature to say hes washed up. He totally sucks this year though. With a new goalie coach and a tighter defense he can turn it around. TBH most of it is mental. Hes better as a backup then as a starter. This year the pressure of being a starter totally rocked him. Also detroit has had sloppy defense this year. I wish we had someone better then osgood but he can get the job done.

Just last season he had a 2.09 and a .914. He had a 1.55 in the playoffs and a .930.
Love him or hate him his problems are not due to age/being washed up.

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Old
02-24-2009, 02:53 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearharb View Post
To BUF:

Osgood would come in and take over immediately until Miller can return to action. Having a goalie with playoff experience is a major plus, but this also leaves Detroit with Conklin/Howard for their playoff push.
If Detroit were to trade Osgood it would be for an upgrade in goal, not to leave them with absolutely no playoff experience, which you point out is so important. Detroit won't trade Osgood. Conklin or Howard could be had if there is something better available, and I'm not so sure there is in their price range.

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Old
02-24-2009, 02:59 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearharb View Post
To BUF:

Valterri Filppula (3,000,000 4 yrs remaining)
Chris Osgood (1.4m 2yrs remaining)

4.4m salary

To DET:

Chris Butler (850,000 2yrs remaining RFA)
Jochen Hecht (3.5 3yrs remaining)
1st in '09

4.35m salary

Both teams will keep comparable payrolls. Butler is being groomed to be a Top 4 defenseman in BUF right now and would fit in nicely once Lidstrom retires. Hecht is the type of defensive forward that would thrive playing with Datsyuk/Zetterberg.

Filppula will become the Sabres 3rd center behind Roy and Connolly allowing Gaustad to move back into a checking role, which suits him better. If Connolly leaves via FA this summer Filppula would help ease the pain at center. Osgood would come in and take over immediately until Miller can return to action. Having a goalie with playoff experience is a major plus, but this also leaves Detroit with Conklin/Howard for their playoff push.


Why would Buffalo do this?? Trading a 1st, a future top 3 dman and Hecht(a brutal season yes, but just the same)

for an old goaltender and Filppula?

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Old
02-24-2009, 03:01 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabrescrazedfan4 View Post
Not really the type of return I'd want for Butler and a 1st. The Sabres are a team that builds through the draft well. Butler has been very solid in his rookie year for us.

Osgood won't have much use when Miller gets back (I'd much rather have him starting than Lalime until Miller does get back though but again not at that price). And Filppula won't be much of a need if we resign Connolly. He'd be on our 3rd line making $3 million. Besides, Gaustad is our 3rd line Center anyways.

Filpulla>>>>>>>>>>Gaustad. Gaustad could move back and play with Ellis and Mair every night for the rest of Filpulla's contract IMHO. Having Four quality centers is how this team made to the ECF two years in a row. (Briere, Drury, Connolly, Roy) Of course before Connolly got hurt. Now there is a drop off and wingers are playing center and we are trying to make guys like Gaustad out to be more than what they are. When you had three lines that could score it was hard to defned this team. When one line was shut down, someone else picked up the slack. We don't have that now. We have one good line and two others that are equal in caliber, at least that is how they are playing.

Butler and a 1st is way to much to give up for Filpulla. I know you have to overpay sometimes to get players but that is to much. Your sending a young NHL rookie defenseman who has played extremely well his rookie campaign almost completely bypassing the AHL and a first for Filpulla. I would love to get Filpulla, it would just have to be with picks and Non-NHL or AHL prospects. Schutz, Biega, I hate to part with Brennan because he brings the toughness this team needs, but defense is all we really have to trade as far as prospects right now.

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Old
02-24-2009, 03:15 PM
  #13
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Sabres keep Butler and Brennan....

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Old
02-24-2009, 03:20 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amd View Post
Filpulla>>>>>>>>>>Gaustad. Gaustad could move back and play with Ellis and Mair every night for the rest of Filpulla's contract IMHO. Having Four quality centers is how this team made to the ECF two years in a row. (Briere, Drury, Connolly, Roy) Of course before Connolly got hurt. Now there is a drop off and wingers are playing center and we are trying to make guys like Gaustad out to be more than what they are. When you had three lines that could score it was hard to defned this team. When one line was shut down, someone else picked up the slack. We don't have that now. We have one good line and two others that are equal in caliber, at least that is how they are playing.

Butler and a 1st is way to much to give up for Filpulla. I know you have to overpay sometimes to get players but that is to much. Your sending a young NHL rookie defenseman who has played extremely well his rookie campaign almost completely bypassing the AHL and a first for Filpulla. I would love to get Filpulla, it would just have to be with picks and Non-NHL or AHL prospects. Schutz, Biega, I hate to part with Brennan because he brings the toughness this team needs, but defense is all we really have to trade as far as prospects right now.
We tend to think you could probably pull Filpulla for your 1st+5th/lower prospect or so... No need for the defensive prospect. If ur 1st is above 20 u wouldn't even need the prospect/5th. We suspect that is what holland is looking for that type of deal in order to keep franzen. Personally Id prefer we keep filpulla. Hes one of those guys that is a great core piece for a 3-6 forward that plays in all situations and has some upside. Franzen while a monster will cost to much etc.

If holland decides he wants to keep filpulla hes nearly untouchable imo. Hes a coaches favorite (who rarely trusts young players) and has barely touched his offensive upside.

He only gets moved in the context of Hossa and Franzen.

Actually if your interested its looking like Hudler may be available as well. As much as we love the guy hes the most likely player to be gone next season. He sorta has priced himself out.

Filpulla +Hudler+ 2/3rd

for
MacArthur + Myers(pretty solid 1st from last year)+ 1st(2009)

I think thats pretty fair. Filpulla/Hudler give you a solid second or third line have great chemistry in the AHL and gives you great depth/versatility. Hudler is in offer sheet range of 1st+3rd possibly a bit higher. But You seem to have enough small forwards.

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Old
02-24-2009, 03:27 PM
  #15
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Would Detroit still think of Moving Filppula? I think Buffalo would be very interested.

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Old
02-24-2009, 03:29 PM
  #16
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We tend to think you could probably pull Filpulla for your 1st+5th/lower prospect or so... No need for the defensive prospect. If ur 1st is above 20 u wouldn't even need the prospect/5th. We suspect that is what holland is looking for that type of deal in order to keep franzen. Personally Id prefer we keep filpulla. Hes one of those guys that is a great core piece for a 3-6 forward that plays in all situations and has some upside. Franzen while a monster will cost to much etc.

If holland decides he wants to keep filpulla hes nearly untouchable imo. Hes a coaches favorite (who rarely trusts young players) and has barely touched his offensive upside.

He only gets moved in the context of Hossa and Franzen.

Actually if your interested its looking like Hudler may be available as well. As much as we love the guy hes the most likely player to be gone next season. He sorta has priced himself out.

Filpulla +Hudler+ 2/3rd

for
MacArthur + Myers(pretty solid 1st from last year)+ 1st(2009)

I think thats pretty fair. Filpulla/Hudler give you a solid second or third line have great chemistry in the AHL and gives you great depth/versatility. Hudler is in offer sheet range of 1st+3rd possibly a bit higher. But You seem to have enough small forwards.
we'll stick with the Mac, TJ for Filp

Myers goes no where

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Old
02-24-2009, 03:30 PM
  #17
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Would Detroit still think of Moving Filppula? I think Buffalo would be very interested.
TBH we dont know. Holland has his cards up to his chest atm. If he ends up needing to free up about 2M of cap space to keep Hossa and/or Franzen and/or hudler who are willing to sign sweet heart deals Filppula is the most likely to be moved.

Unless they agree to take a big discount I think Holland keeps Filppula and just doesn't sign as many of the above.

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Old
02-24-2009, 03:33 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
we'll stick with the Mac, TJ for Filp

Myers goes no where
I personally dont think Hudler is a good fit for you was just trying to find a way to get 2 firsts in the picture as Hudler+Filp are worth about that (yet antropov isnt??? kinda funny. Its also a bit absurd imo that Hudler(RFA) is more valuable then Filp.

Myers is a good prospect you are lucky to have him. Hes like a more polished version of our Ericsson.

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02-24-2009, 03:42 PM
  #19
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One bad side effect for Detroit (in a before the dealine deal) would be Buffalo being more at ease with Moving Connolly at the deadline. ( Likely to a western conf. team)

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Old
02-24-2009, 03:43 PM
  #20
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
I personally dont think Hudler is a good fit for you was just trying to find a way to get 2 firsts in the picture as Hudler+Filp are worth about that (yet antropov isnt??? kinda funny. Its also a bit absurd imo that Hudler(RFA) is more valuable then Filp.

Myers is a good prospect you are lucky to have him. Hes like a more polished version of our Ericsson.
ummm, Ericsson is the more polished, Myers is 18 years old. Myers has much higher overall upside. Myers has a Chara-esque ceiling... and also a Hal Gill floor

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02-24-2009, 03:44 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Dog View Post
Would Detroit still think of Moving Filppula? I think Buffalo would be very interested.
if they feel they can sign Franzen and or Hossa, then yes... but i dont see Detroit moving Filp til the offseason if ever.

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02-24-2009, 03:49 PM
  #22
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ummm, Ericsson is the more polished, Myers is 18 years old. Myers has much higher overall upside. Myers has a Chara-esque ceiling... and also a Hal Gill floor
Well im not sure anyone knows Ericssons upside. I think HF rankings on him are a bit conservative. Not saying he will get there but he has top pairing potential. When i said polished i geuss i meant(well i dont know what i meant). They both monsters but im not sure id call Ericsson polished either. We like to think Ericsson is a decent 4/5 defensemen today. And as soon as next year 3/4 potentially after that its a clean slate. Myers on the other hand you have franchise potential upside.

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Old
02-24-2009, 06:11 PM
  #23
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This deal leaves Detroit with Conklin/Howard for the playoffs.... fail

IF however it is paired with another trade for a goalie. Then I like it...but the goalie has to be a proven playoff guy. and nobody say 'Toskala' (sorry, but i know it's coming....)

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Old
02-24-2009, 08:43 PM
  #24
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If we are trading Butler I want Hudler coming our way. Period. Can't afford to give away young defensive talent that easily. I'd rather take Legace than Osgood btw.

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Old
02-24-2009, 08:54 PM
  #25
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What could we get if we threw in Filp + Kronwald
but these talks are itneresting

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