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A. Kostitsyn Stats (w/ regards to pairings)

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Old
02-24-2009, 07:12 AM
  #51
la25ecoupe
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CArbo =

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Old
02-24-2009, 10:19 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
so why the **** do they play together????? carbo is not the problem ON the line. but he is the one that MAKES the line. he is the coach. he makes the final decision on who plays with who.

please tell me why??

i know carbo is completely incompetent as a coach but is he blind as well?? can he not read the exact same stats a fan is able to see???

if, as u say, kovy is a ball and chain, why would he place our best offensive player alongside him when everything that has happened this year shows he plays amazing without kovy.

the stats speak for themselves. andrei has now matured into the player we hoped he would become when we drafted him. it is time for him to be the go to guy on his line. it is time for him to be the player both linemates look for. that is exactly what kovy is. you cant have 2 similar players like that play on the same line imo.

that is why i think andrei is a different player than last year and also why this line wont work like it did last year. andrei wants the puck now. he needs the puck now as opposed to last year when he was fine with kovy making the plays. judging by how he has performed without kovy he knows he can be succesful like that.

considering i do agree with a lot you say on this board, i dont know how you do not agree with some of what i say in regards to carbo. imo he has done nothing to show he can be a good head coach in this league right now and imo has not shown any progress whatsoever his 3 years! it has always been our goalies and the powerplay which have led to any success for this team. 5 on 5 has always been our weakness.
Simple. Because I believe that coaches coach and players play. If Kovalev played the way he did last year, this would be a non-issue. It's Gainey's job to get Kovalev out of town, not Carbo's. The sooner he's gone, the sooner you'll see a team instead of individuals.

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Old
02-24-2009, 10:29 AM
  #53
Erik Estrada
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Simple. Because I believe that coaches coach and players play. If Kovalev played the way he did last year, this would be a non-issue. It's Gainey's job to get Kovalev out of town, not Carbo's. The sooner he's gone, the sooner you'll see a team instead of individuals.
If Kovalev's still here past the deadline, Carbo will need to pull a major juggling act. For example, how will he play his "superstar" in the playoffs, when he knows Kovalev was mainly helpful during the regular season on special teams (much less important) and shootouts (non-existent)?

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Old
02-24-2009, 10:30 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by redmachine54 View Post
I actually feel kind of bad for making this thread in light of the responses (I predicted some Kovalev negativity, but not this much). I'm of the mind that Kostitsyn should be separated from Kovalev, but for a reason that buddha stated: Andrei and Plekanec seem to wait for Kovalev to do something, rather than try and help him do it. Maybe it's an "awe" factor, maybe it's shyness, I don't know, but I think all parties might benefit from a little separatoin.

I think if the veterans were put together, it might make for an interesting scenario. I think guys like Koivu and Tanguay wouldn't mind dishing to Kovalev; yet I'm also cautious that they all might try to be the go-to guys on a line and the situation wouldn't end nicely.

Thankfully, I don't have to make these decisions.
Agreed fully, despite me here defending Kovalev, I also think the line should be broken up. Clearly, it hasn't worked this year, so time for something new, no matter whose fault it is.

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Old
02-24-2009, 10:56 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Carbonneau must be aware of this. But I think he comes from the Driving a square peg in a round hole with hard work School of coaching.
There is no where else to Kovalev. Carbonneau is stuck with it unless Kovalev gets traded

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Old
02-24-2009, 11:04 AM
  #56
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Isn't it obvious ? AKost is a RW Carbo !

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Old
02-24-2009, 11:23 AM
  #57
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This thread makes me angry.

WAKE UP CARBO!

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Old
02-24-2009, 11:35 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
There is no where else to Kovalev. Carbonneau is stuck with it unless Kovalev gets traded
That's the problem right here.

Who would you use as Kovy's linemates? I can see an argument for swapping MaxPac with AKost and going with Higgins-Koivu-AKost, but Kovy and Pleky are kinda stuck together for lack of a better option at center.

Mind, if Kovy is going to play like last year from here on, this is a non-problem.

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Old
02-24-2009, 11:49 AM
  #59
Erik Estrada
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
That's the problem right here.

Who would you use as Kovy's linemates? I can see an argument for swapping MaxPac with AKost and going with Higgins-Koivu-AKost, but Kovy and Pleky are kinda stuck together for lack of a better option at center.

Mind, if Kovy is going to play like last year from here on, this is a non-problem.
I wouldn't want to be in Carbo's shoes. However, he's paid to find a workable solution to use down the stretch. Stop-gap measures and improvisation don't cut it. If he can't find one, it's Gainey job to take the problem off his hands.

As for Kovalev suddenly turning his season around, we're a bit close to trade deadline for wishful thinking.

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Old
02-24-2009, 11:59 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
As for Kovalev suddenly turning his season around, we're a bit close to trade deadline for wishful thinking.
I don't see what the trading deadline has to do with it. In all likelihood, Kovalev is not going to be traded anywhere.

About the only way I can see it mattering is if Gainey manages to dig up an offensive center, a Jokinen say, to play between Kovalev and say Tanguay.

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Old
02-24-2009, 12:01 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Mind, if Kovy is going to play like last year from here on, this is a non-problem.
Right, and so far he's said all the right things since coming back. And showed it on the ice against Ottawa.

I cannot blame Carbo for assuming he's for real until he proves otherwise. The whole return to the team was a fresh start, so personally, while the start of the season was crap, he's paid his pound of flesh. I'll judge him from Ottawa on.

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Old
02-24-2009, 12:04 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
Morale of the thread?

Recall Sergei and invest in a bionic leg for Lang!

The morale is: keep him on the right side with Plekanec, and you have a winning duo there. That means there is no room for Kovalev on that line.

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Old
02-24-2009, 12:09 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I don't see what the trading deadline has to do with it. In all likelihood, Kovalev is not going to be traded anywhere.

About the only way I can see it mattering is if Gainey manages to dig up an offensive center, a Jokinen say, to play between Kovalev and say Tanguay.
I mention the trade deadline because that's the last chance Gainey has to piece together a competitive roster for the stretch. Whether he decides to keep Kovalev or not he needs to be comfortable that he doesn't give a club to Carbonneau with personnel issue time bombs.

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Old
02-24-2009, 12:40 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
The morale is: keep him on the right side with Plekanec, and you have a winning duo there. That means there is no room for Kovalev on that line.
"...and therefore we should play him with X and Y." Who are X and Y?

Note that any kind of "...and therefore we should trade the worthless bum" fantasy is not a realistic answer at this point. Even if I suspect that's where you're getting at.

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Old
02-24-2009, 02:18 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
If Kovalev's still here past the deadline, Carbo will need to pull a major juggling act. For example, how will he play his "superstar" in the playoffs, when he knows Kovalev was mainly helpful during the regular season on special teams (much less important) and shootouts (non-existent)?
What are you talking about? Don't you know that come playoff time, Kovalev will be our best player? It happens every season.

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Old
02-24-2009, 02:52 PM
  #66
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I am wondering if any media has picked up on constructive telling stats like this. Someone who has a voice must have noticed the same thing, no?

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02-24-2009, 03:11 PM
  #67
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I am wondering if any media has picked up on constructive telling stats like this. Someone who has a voice must have noticed the same thing, no?
Yeah you would hope Jarvis Muller or Gainey possibly.

I want to like Carbo but man he makes some odd descions with lineups and at pivtol points in the hockey game.

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Old
02-24-2009, 03:48 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
"...and therefore we should play him with X and Y." Who are X and Y?

Note that any kind of "...and therefore we should trade the worthless bum" fantasy is not a realistic answer at this point. Even if I suspect that's where you're getting at.
You come to that same solution as I do. Kovalev wants to play on the RW because he can get a nice shot at the net, and I agree with him, he is better served by playing RW.

Problem is Kovalev is not playing like a snipper, but like a playmaker... a center. If he wants to play like that, he will need to accept to play on the LW... if not, he will have to play on a line with a center that is there for an other reason than distributing the puck. The whole idea is to have a productive team, and when he is not on the PP, Kovalev is not helping Plekanec and Kostitsyn: he slows their game. Same happened when Latendresse was playing with those guys. However, we saw how great they could play with a fast winger like Pacioretty.

So there are the solutions IMO if you want to keep him. Lang was a perfect fit for him. The other solution would be to make him play center. It didn't work in the past, it ask a lot more energy than playing on a wing, but I think he could make that job... specially when Tanguay and Latendresse will be back. If not, then we have too many wingers an not enough centers, and one winger will need to go.

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Old
02-24-2009, 08:49 PM
  #69
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The stats from this thread made Boone's Habs Inside/Out game blog, in the JT comments on the first. Good job redmachine54, and everyone else who was crunching numbers.

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Old
02-24-2009, 08:58 PM
  #70
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Well looks like we need to call SK74 up doesn't it?

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Old
02-24-2009, 09:20 PM
  #71
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this will be 2 straight games a-kost has not played anywhere near the level he does without kovy..

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Old
02-24-2009, 09:22 PM
  #72
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Wow. that list just proves that carbo juggles the lines wayyyyy too much

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Old
02-24-2009, 09:22 PM
  #73
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Kostitsyn + Kostitsyn =
Kostitsyn + Kovalev =

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Old
02-24-2009, 10:30 PM
  #74
Lucius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
this will be 2 straight games a-kost has not played anywhere near the level he does without kovy..
And again, the problem is Kostitsyn's.

Like that break he had where he stopped, spun and tried to pass to Kovalev. Even Kovalev seemed confused.

I agree that Kostitsyn needs off that line, but I don't think it's fair to lay the blame on Kovalev.

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Old
02-24-2009, 10:41 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
And again, the problem is Kostitsyn's.

Like that break he had where he stopped, spun and tried to pass to Kovalev. Even Kovalev seemed confused.

I agree that Kostitsyn needs off that line, but I don't think it's fair to lay the blame on Kovalev.
Not all of the blame, no. But does Kostitsyn deserve all the blame? Hell no.

Almost every line that Kostitsyn has played on since being a Hab has looked good.

Higgins-Plekanec-Kostitsyn (almost got us into the playoffs that year when Kovalev didn't feel like playing)
Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev (07-08: back when Kovalev moved his feet)
Kostitsyn-Koivu-D'agostini (looked awesome the 5 games they played)
Kostitsyn-Lang-Kostitsyn (Our most productive line this season)
Pacioretty-Plekanec-Kostitsyn (scored 5 goals in 2 games)

The only lines AKost has been on that don't look good are when he played with 4th line scrubs, or when he plays with Kovalev this year. And tell me who has Kovalev looked good with this year? Plekanec? The odd game. Koivu?... nope. Lang? nope. Tanguay? nope. etc etc

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