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The Official we don't need Briere thread

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Old
02-25-2009, 02:08 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You think having different wings covering the point was impacting Briere's defensive zone coverage? No other player on the team was even close to him in giving up goals against last year. Different linemates does not make you lazy coming back to play defense. It does not make you small and easy to body off the puck...and hard for you to body others off the puck. It doesn't make you hook with a regular basis (he took an absurd amount of minors last year).

Hell, the very point of defensive zone coverage is that players have SPECIFIC jobs and places to be on the ice. You have a "defensive system," no matter how loose and ill-conceived ours is. It shouldn't matter who you're on the ice with when you're playing defense...you have your job, go do it.

I could buy the linemate argument hindering his offensive output, which would have some effect on his +/- (not his own defensive play). However, last year was also the 2nd highest point total of his career...so it wasn't hurting him that much.
You seem to dislike briere allot. It's not his fault that he's being paid 6.5 mil a season to be here. Just remember if we don't sign briere to we even come close to signing kimmo and hartnell? would they want to come here.

Oh and too your point of linemates changing. That is all based purely upon your opinion. You have no idea how much of a difference changing linemates every game would impact your defensive game. Playing with different players constantly, some better in defense than others, some faster, slower, harder hitters, better stick checking. Of course it makes a huge difference. How are you meant to know when to retrieve pucks, help out linemates in the corners ect when you have no idea how they play.

Fact is, with briere on this team the offense looks scary. Very scary. Other teams will find it difficult to cope with three rolling lines that can put up that many points. Even if they don't put up massive numbers, just having lines that keep the puck in the offensive zone for large periods of games can tire out defenseman massively.

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02-25-2009, 02:14 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
It's not his fault that he's being paid 6.5 mil a season to be here.
To play the devils advocate, you could say the same about Jones.

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02-25-2009, 02:15 PM
  #178
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Fact is, with briere on this team the offense looks scary. Very scary.


I aint buying that

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02-25-2009, 02:16 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
You seem to dislike briere allot. It's not his fault that he's being paid 6.5 mil a season to be here. Just remember if we don't sign briere to we even come close to signing kimmo and hartnell? would they want to come here.
I do believe that those two signed before Briere (we traded Nas their 1st back for the rights to negotiate with them before free agency started, and then signed Briere the day free agency opened.

I still think Briere just has to be better utilized by the coaching staff. Have his line play an up tempo style that suits Briere (similar to what Buffalo had).

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02-25-2009, 02:27 PM
  #180
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Ah my mistake, i got my dates mixed up.

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02-25-2009, 02:30 PM
  #181
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Just like last season, everyone will be happy Briere is wearing orange and black come playoff time.

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02-25-2009, 02:39 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
You seem to dislike briere allot. It's not his fault that he's being paid 6.5 mil a season to be here. Just remember if we don't sign briere to we even come close to signing kimmo and hartnell? would they want to come here.
I don't dislike Briere a lot. He's a fantastic offensive player. I think his contract is perfectly fine for his services. It's a fair market contract (at the time).

What I dislike is the assertion that he improves our team at even strength. He doesn't.

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Oh and too your point of linemates changing. That is all based purely upon your opinion. You have no idea how much of a difference changing linemates every game would impact your defensive game. Playing with different players constantly, some better in defense than others, some faster, slower, harder hitters, better stick checking. Of course it makes a huge difference. How are you meant to know when to retrieve pucks, help out linemates in the corners ect when you have no idea how they play.
Because the very purpose of a defensive system is that you don't need to know how they play...they play the way the team system tells them to play. That's why you have systems. So guys aren't free-styling out there...so players know where each other will be for outlet passes, and so guys know who they should be covering in the plethora of situations.

If your suggestion is that our team system is so lacking that it made Danny Briere suck that bad defensively...then you need to explain why he was such an outlier on the team defensively.

So, no...it shouldn't make a huge difference. There's a reason why the well managed and well coached teams are ridiculously consistent in this league, especially in their defensive play. It isn't because of consistent rosters.

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Fact is, with briere on this team the offense looks scary. Very scary. Other teams will find it difficult to cope with three rolling lines that can put up that many points. Even if they don't put up massive numbers, just having lines that keep the puck in the offensive zone for large periods of games can tire out defenseman massively.
At what point under John Stevens has this team ever "kept the puck in the offensive zone for large periods of games?"

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02-25-2009, 02:43 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Just like last season, everyone will be happy Briere is wearing orange and black come playoff time.
...and then get pissed off when we can't sign a nice UFA?

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02-25-2009, 02:44 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Well, I would consider this. He was a plus 14 during his tenure in Buffalo and one the things that always remained a constant were his wingers (I know Hect was one of his wingers, not sure who the other was), but I don't find it a coincedence at all that once Briere started getting different linemates all over the map, it played a big part in terms of his plus minus rating. Once again, different linemates, different positioning, different styles, lack of chemistry, can lead to defensive miscues, no matter the system.
Briere led the league in even strength scoring with that team and had a teammate that was +30 better than him. +30.

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We get it, you don't like Briere. We get it, you don't like offensive hockey. But don't dismiss the fact that 13 different linemates isn't going to create some sort of difficulty.......
This isn't about offensive hockey. It's about scoring more than your opponent. That's how you win hockey games last I checked.

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Originally Posted by rayearth View Post
07-08
Team Goals For - 96
Team Goals Against - 62
We're talking even strength rayearth. And read up a bit for my thoughts when you factor in PP goals.

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02-25-2009, 02:45 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
...and then get pissed off when we can't sign a nice UFA?
Screw signing anyone...we're going to be losing people.

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02-25-2009, 02:46 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Screw signing anyone...we're going to be losing people.
Trust me, I know.

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02-25-2009, 02:48 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
...and then get pissed off when we can't sign a nice UFA?
It's inevitable that the Flyers will be losing someone significant, but Briere's not going anywhere.


.... and that anger should be directed at Holmgren, not Briere.

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02-25-2009, 02:50 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
It's inevitable that the Flyers will be losing someone significant, but Briere's not going anywhere.
Who knows. I wouldn't expect him to waive his NMC, but you never know. If they go to him over the summer and ask him if he'd accept a trade, he might.

Just based on articles as of now, you're going to see an avalanche of columns about that if the Flyers don't make serious noise this playoffs.

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02-25-2009, 02:50 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
It's inevitable that the Flyers will be losing someone significant, but Briere's not going anywhere.

.... and that anger should be directed at Holmgren, not Briere.

Amen.

I hope it's Lupul, although it won't be easy to move him.

I agree. You can't fault Briere for signing the offer that was presented to him. And the same goes for Jones.

Both of those are on nobody but Holmgren.

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02-25-2009, 02:52 PM
  #190
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Amen.

I hope it's Lupul, although it won't be easy to move him.
Meh, he's 25...on pace for ~25 goals. Would have had that with ease last year if not for injuries...

While I don't think you'd get a huge return with his salary, I don't think it would be that hard to find a taker for Lupul.

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02-25-2009, 02:54 PM
  #191
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Well, I don't think Holmgren should be too criticized for Briere's contract. Richards did not look like a PPG player his first couple of years. He was looking like he was going to be a very good third line center who would chip in offensively and be an excellent two-way guy. Carter...he was all over the place, even through last year.

If neither of those guys turn into first-line talent...or even just one of 'em did...signing Briere was a smart move.

Both have...and that's problematic.

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02-25-2009, 02:58 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Meh, he's 25...on pace for ~25 goals. Would have had that with ease last year if not for injuries...

While I don't think you'd get a huge return with his salary, I don't think it would be that hard to find a taker for Lupul.
Way too hot and cold of a player to eat 4.25 IMO.

I don't know, I think it may be a little more difficult that you think. For everybody and their mother wanting to get rid of Jones, with Visnovsky and Grebeshkov going down for the Oilers, you'd think we could have sent Jones North-West for a 3rd/4th. Teams aren't going to be in a rush to add salary...just my hunch.

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02-25-2009, 02:59 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Who knows. I wouldn't expect him to waive his NMC, but you never know. If they go to him over the summer and ask him if he'd accept a trade, he might.

Just based on articles as of now, you're going to see an avalanche of columns about that if the Flyers don't make serious noise this playoffs.
True enough. I'd be surprised if the Flyers asked him to waive it, though.

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02-25-2009, 03:02 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Way too hot and cold of a player to eat 4.25 IMO.

I don't know, I think it may be a little more difficult that you think. For everybody and their mother wanting to get rid of Jones, with Visnovsky and Grebeshkov going down for the Oilers, you'd think we could have sent Jones North-West for a 3rd/4th. Teams aren't going to be in a rush to add salary...just my hunch.
See, I don't think they're even trying to move Jones...so the fact that he hasn't moved is not indicative of whether he could be moved.

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True enough. I'd be surprised if the Flyers asked him to waive it, though.
Depends on how things play out...they're absolutely screwed against the cap at the moment, and god knows what's going to happen in the next year or two with the economy. If they have a reasonable deal on the table, I could absolutely see them asking him.

JVR at 3M, Lupul...etc. Lots of reasons to at least see what Briere might return.

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02-25-2009, 03:06 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, I don't think Holmgren should be too criticized for Briere's contract. Richards did not look like a PPG player his first couple of years. He was looking like he was going to be a very good third line center who would chip in offensively and be an excellent two-way guy. Carter...he was all over the place, even through last year.

If neither of those guys turn into first-line talent...or even just one of 'em did...signing Briere was a smart move.

Both have...and that's problematic.
The Briere contract alone isn't what condemns Holmgren. It's the contracts that followed that helped put him in an unenviable position. This summer will be an enormous test for Holmgren.

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02-25-2009, 03:11 PM
  #196
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See, I don't think they're even trying to move Jones...so the fact that he hasn't moved is not indicative of whether he could be moved.
Neither do I, they seem high on him...and I am not one of the haters on the board so I'm fine if he stays for now.

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Depends on how things play out...they're absolutely screwed against the cap at the moment, and god knows what's going to happen in the next year or two with the economy. If they have a reasonable deal on the table, I could absolutely see them asking him.

JVR at 3M, Lupul...etc. Lots of reasons to at least see what Briere might return.
I think they're screwed too. I was having a debate with FlyHigh the other day and he insisted I'm taking the cap too serious. Needless to say, we agreed to disagree. In fact, I don't think were screwed...WERE ****ED!!!

It wouldn't be the first time a player has been asked to waive the NTC, and if we don't resign Biron, we don't run the risk of upsetting Biron by asking his best friend if he wants to leave. I think it's very realistic to at least venture down this path...

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02-25-2009, 11:36 PM
  #197
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This thread was probably not needed and has been discussed before but I'm bored out of my mind, and have drank about 8 cups of coffee in an hour.

Get Danny to waive his NTC, free up a ass load of cap. Get good goaltender and/or defensemen in return and win the stanley cup! We have enough offensive talent without him, most teams don't even stack up even without Briere. Come on, guys you know it's that simple
That contract will never get moved. The league will face massive downturn in the 10-11 season. Cap will go down maybe 10 million.

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02-25-2009, 11:52 PM
  #198
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..Wow, I originally posted something more acerbic, but I'll just stick with wow.

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02-26-2009, 08:12 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by panayiotis View Post
That contract will never get moved. The league will face massive downturn in the 10-11 season. Cap will go down maybe 10 million.
Probably not. The college-educated/corporate crowd (to this point) has not been hit terribly by the recession in lost jobs, so they'll still have income to spend on tickets, and I imagine that's the primary demographic around the NHL as far as their core financial backbone.

While a 20% hit is not entirely unfeasible, I would expect you to see the NHL and NHLPA strike an agreement to freeze the salary cap before anything that drastic happened.

You are right, however, that if the salary cap stagnates, as it is likely to do so, many of the contracts handed out to UFAs the last few years will become poison pills.

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02-26-2009, 08:22 AM
  #200
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Welcome to Fantasyland.

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