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Mark Bell By Rangers with a Confirming Link

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Old
02-25-2009, 06:00 PM
  #76
eco's bones
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
But that's the point entirely. NYR has not one top six forward among their recent "great" drafts....while NJD has scored two quality top-six forwards (one a superstar) in that same time.

Quality vs. quantity.

If one is going to make asinine statements, one ought to back it up.

Might be better off lecturing your NYR brethren who is ripping NJD's pipeline.
Admittedly those remarks made about Lamoriello were stupid. He has been one of the shrewdest hockey people ever. Even so Dubinsky is a very good player--who maybe has not quite reached his full potential. He is still only 22 years old. He's going to put up somewhere around the same numbers point wise as last year only this time without Jagr on the wing. He's not what's wrong with the Rangers--of which there is quite a lot that is wrong. He is one of the few bright spots who comes to play, can play, can play physical, will stick up and/or get into scraps for his teammates even if he's not a very good fighter. There's a bit of Adam Graves there who as well took a few years to round out.

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Old
02-25-2009, 06:04 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Laughable alright.

Laughing all the way to top three in the Conference.

But NYR fans should be giving the Devils lectures on drafting!

Been hearing from NYR fanboys for years how NJD's horrrrrible drafting is going to kill them. While meanwhile superstar draft picks like horseface Dubinsky are going to lead NYR to the promised land!

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Current NYR forwards drafted since 2003: Dubinsky; Callahan; Korpikoski; Dubinsky

Current NJD forwards drafted since 2003: Parise; Zajac

Any more questions?
wow, I mean, I knew the Devils were Islanders fans 2nd team and vice versa but thats just childish hate right there.

Anyway, Devils fans were crushing Zajac last yr in his 2nd season, so we'll see. Dubi's got cpt. material all over him.

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Old
02-25-2009, 06:09 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Laughable alright.

Laughing all the way to top three in the Conference.

But NYR fans should be giving the Devils lectures on drafting!

Been hearing from NYR fanboys for years how NJD's horrrrrible drafting is going to kill them. While meanwhile superstar draft picks like horseface Dubinsky are going to lead NYR to the promised land!

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Current NYR forwards drafted since 2003: Dubinsky; Callahan; Korpikoski; Dubinsky

Current NJD forwards drafted since 2003: Parise; Zajac

Any more questions?
Umm...c'mon, Trots, I expect better than that from you. No argument on Parise. But, look at Zajac and Dubinsky again. Zajac is a year older. Rookie year - 42 points, last year 34 points. Dubinsky - rookie year 40 points, current season, 30 points. Not seeing a big difference at the moment. Can we wait and see how Dubinsky does in his 3rd year before giving him this treatment? Add in faceoffs - as a rookie, Zajac was at 46.9%; ; as rookie last year, Dubinsky was .2% higher than Zajac; this year, Zajac is better by .9%, but Dubinsky is at 52.3%, higher than where Zajac was last year. And, we won't even get into hits or physical play, because there's no comparison. Dubinsky led all rookies in hits and was top 15 in the league; this year he's at #9. Zajac doesn't even register. Zajac's the better goal-scorer; Dubinsky plays a more complete game, and is still a year younger. Again, no argument with Parise. But, Zajac...not quite.

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Old
02-25-2009, 06:10 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Admittedly those remarks made about Lamoriello were stupid. He has been one of the shrewdest hockey people ever. Even so Dubinsky is a very good player--who maybe has not quite reached his full potential. He is still only 22 years old....There's a bit of Adam Graves there who as well took a few years to round out.
I agree fully about your assessment of Dubinsky and thought the same things about the Graves connection. And, one is reminded that this time last season a certain sophomore center on NJD was suffering through a very ordinary second NHL season, before blossoming this year. So point taken. I just need a Ranger to dislike and his on-ice brashness makes him my favorite target; consider it a compliment.

The real point is that the meme about NJD's wretched drafting is getting stale. And despite such "laughable" drafting (we've heard this since the turn of the century, BTW), NJD's NHL team remains highly successful. So missing the forest for the trees is an apt description of anyone ripping NJD's drafting. You draft to win...not collect the most bottom six forwards.

To be sure, Girardi and Staal on the backline are coups for NYR's drafting. However, just as one is silly (premature) to brand NJD's picks of the last four years "laughable", it is equally silly to assume success for the Del Zottos and Sanguinetti's of the world, before they skate even one NHL shift.

Adding: Jas - we posted simultaneously. You'll see we're thinking alike about BD/TZ regarding the sophmore season. I disagree with you, however, in your assessment of Dubinsky as the more complete player. Zajac is a SUPERB defensive player and a superior skater to Dubinsky. No doubt, both have opportunity to further evolve their respective games.


Last edited by Trottier: 02-25-2009 at 06:21 PM.
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Old
02-25-2009, 06:12 PM
  #80
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Bad Contracts on NYR

Wade Redden
Scott Gomez
Chris Drury
Petr Prucha
Dmitri Kalinin
Michal Roszival
Marcus Naslund
Mark Bell

There may be more, that was just off the top of my head

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Old
02-25-2009, 06:16 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
I agree fully about your assessment of Dubinsky and thought the same things about the Graves connection. And, one is reminded that this time last season a certain sophomore center on NJD was suffering through a very ordinary second NHL season, before blossoming this year. So point taken. I just need a Ranger to dislike and his on-ice brashness makes him my favorite target; consider it a compliment.

The real point is that the meme about NJD's wretched drafting is getting stale. And despite such "laughable" drafting (we've heard this since the turn of the century, BTW), NJD's NHL team remains highly successful. So missing the forest for the trees is an apt description of anyone ripping NJD's drafting. You draft to win...not collect the most bottom six forwards.

To be sure, Girardi and Staal on the backline are coups for NYR's drafting. However, just as one is silly (premature) to brand NJD's picks of the last four years "laughable", it is equally silly to assume success for the Del Zottos and Sanguinetti's of the world, before they skate even one NHL shift.

Adding: Jas - we posted simultaneoulsy. You'll see we're thinking alike about BD/TZ
.
As I said, I have respect for your opinion as a knowledgeable hockey fan. And, the "trade rumor" boards bring out the worst in every fanbase.

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Old
02-25-2009, 06:17 PM
  #82
Trottier
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
wow, I mean, I knew the Devils were Islanders fans 2nd team and vice versa but thats just childish hate right there.

Anyway, Devils fans were crushing Zajac last yr in his 2nd season, so we'll see. Dubi's got cpt. material all over him.
How is pointing out the FACTS about recent draft picks (among forwards) childish?

And Devils fans who were crushing Zajac last year were silly.

That said, one finds the folk hero celebrity of Dubinsky among some NYR fans a bit over the top. He can, and very likely will, become more productive offensively. But he will always be somewhat limited by his skating. Just my opinion.

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As I said, I have respect for your opinion as a knowledgeable hockey fan.
Ditto Jas.

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Old
02-25-2009, 06:17 PM
  #83
jas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
Bad Contracts on NYR

Wade Redden
Scott Gomez
Chris Drury
Petr Prucha
Dmitri Kalinin
Michal Roszival
Marcus Naslund
Mark Bell

There may be more, that was just off the top of my head
Mark Bell is costing the Rangers $300,000 for the rest of the year...not seeing a real problem there.

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Old
02-25-2009, 06:21 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Laughable alright.

Laughing all the way to top three in the Conference.

But NYR fans should be giving the Devils lectures on drafting!

Been hearing from NYR fanboys for years how NJD's horrrrrible drafting is going to kill them. While meanwhile superstar draft picks like horseface Dubinsky are going to lead NYR to the promised land!

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Current NYR forwards drafted since 2003: Dubinsky; Callahan; Korpikoski; Dubinsky

Current NJD forwards drafted since 2003: Parise; Zajac

Any more questions?
We've been building for our d. Staal is already very good, Sangs made the AHL All-Star team, and we still have Del Zotto. And honestly, we HAD our superstar winger, but he tragically passed.

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Old
02-25-2009, 06:34 PM
  #85
Trottier
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
We've been building for our d. Staal is already very good, Sangs made the AHL All-Star team, and we still have Del Zotto. And honestly, we HAD our superstar winger, but he tragically passed.
Again, I'm not suggesting otherwise. (Although - and I write this with no disrespect to the deceased Cherapanov - I simply cannot label any player an NHL "superstar" before he produces in it.)

It was the original poster's description of NJD's pipeline that was dubious, to be kind.

Want to rip a lousy draft record? Look at NYI's overall this decade. And it is reflected on the ice. Not so NJD's.

Anyway, back to the thread topic....

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Old
02-25-2009, 06:39 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post

Adding: Jas - we posted simultaneously. You'll see we're thinking alike about BD/TZ regarding the sophmore season. I disagree with you, however, in your assessment of Dubinsky as the more complete player. Zajac is a SUPERB defensive player and a superior skater to Dubinsky. No doubt, both have opportunity to further evolve their respective games.
Speed is not Dubinsky's problem as a skater; balance is the problem. Aside from Gomez, Dubinsky is the best Ranger forward moving with the puck. Zajac is a much smoother skater.

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Old
02-25-2009, 07:06 PM
  #87
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You forgot Dawes, Trotts (5th round 2003).

Still I agree with what you said about the Rangers'/Devils' draft records. And: trademasterb is one of those fans who makes a certain fan base look stupid (in this case: the NY Rangers). Better not respond to him at all...

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Old
02-25-2009, 07:29 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by trademasterb View Post
What's a big laugh is your farm system which is the worst in all of hockey. Part of the reason why beside your laughable drafting the past 4 years is that you don't support your kids with a few strong vets down there.
Do you have any clue what your talking about. Bell was down there all year. Deveraux was down there all year. Battaglia is down there. Stapelton is down there. There are many others with some NHL experience playing on the farm and last year we had Clemmenson on the farm all year (except for when he got called up) playing with Pogge. So 3 to 4 vets is about exactly what we have. We have drafted pretty well the last few years with the picks we had. We've simply traded away too many picks and prospects. We traded Rask who is currently ranked top 50 for prospects who was traded to Boston. We still have Pogge who also is ranked top 50 along with Tlusty and Kulemin. Not to mention Schenn. So I really don't have a problem with the way we've drafted at all. Oh and Stralman is also looking like a pretty safe bet. The rangers do have some nice prospects I won't argue that. But really get a clue before saying our farm is in the dumps when their 29 21 and 2. Eight games over 500 is respectable in my eyes.

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Old
02-25-2009, 11:01 PM
  #89
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to all teams out there... im happy to be in leafs land rite now.. finally more younger guys r going to get achance in AHL affiliate to the leafs.. now how can we get rid of tucker making a mill for next 3-4 years? leafs r winning again and players could not be producing at a better time... this could lead to a good return for players at the DD...

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Old
02-26-2009, 03:53 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
I agree fully about your assessment of Dubinsky and thought the same things about the Graves connection. And, one is reminded that this time last season a certain sophomore center on NJD was suffering through a very ordinary second NHL season, before blossoming this year. So point taken. I just need a Ranger to dislike and his on-ice brashness makes him my favorite target; consider it a compliment.

The real point is that the meme about NJD's wretched drafting is getting stale. And despite such "laughable" drafting (we've heard this since the turn of the century, BTW), NJD's NHL team remains highly successful. So missing the forest for the trees is an apt description of anyone ripping NJD's drafting. You draft to win...not collect the most bottom six forwards.

To be sure, Girardi and Staal on the backline are coups for NYR's drafting. However, just as one is silly (premature) to brand NJD's picks of the last four years "laughable", it is equally silly to assume success for the Del Zottos and Sanguinetti's of the world, before they skate even one NHL shift.

Adding: Jas - we posted simultaneously. You'll see we're thinking alike about BD/TZ regarding the sophmore season. I disagree with you, however, in your assessment of Dubinsky as the more complete player. Zajac is a SUPERB defensive player and a superior skater to Dubinsky. No doubt, both have opportunity to further evolve their respective games.
Only reason NJ is competitive is because Lou hires great coaches. That's it. However, the playoffs don't lie and the Devils aren't a factor any longer in the playoffs. They currently have 5 scrubs on defense of which 3 should be in the AHL.

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Old
02-26-2009, 04:12 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by trademasterb View Post
Only reason NJ is competitive is because Lou hires great coaches. That's it. However, the playoffs don't lie and the Devils aren't a factor any longer in the playoffs. They currently have 5 scrubs on defense of which 3 should be in the AHL.
previously the devils success was due to Marty--MArtygoes down and now it is the coaches(they have had a few)

Any stop to think that NJD success might be because

1) There is something in the swanp water there
2)Little green men from mars are behind it
3)Lou Lam got got game for building a team year in and year out

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The twenty year rebuild is on!!! Embrace the suck
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Old
02-26-2009, 05:36 AM
  #92
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Oh man, I remember when the sharks got Bell, I thought he was going to be the left wing on the first line with thornton and cheech lol

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:37 AM
  #93
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Oh man, I remember when the sharks got Bell, I thought he was going to be the left wing on the first line with thornton and cheech lol
He was...in name only...

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