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The Official we don't need Briere thread

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Old
02-26-2009, 10:20 AM
  #201
sa cyred
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Welcome to Fantasyland.


Yep... that's what I thought of

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Old
02-26-2009, 10:43 AM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
This isn't about offensive hockey. It's about scoring more than your opponent. That's how you win hockey games last I checked.



We're talking even strength rayearth. And read up a bit for my thoughts when you factor in PP goals.
If its all about scoring more than your opponent than stop pointing out JUST his even strength stats. Powerplays DO happen and if its about scoring more than your oppenent then I want briere back because with him on the PP we do score more than our opponent.

I honestly think Briere will be better in the +/- area when he comes back. Im not saying he will be +10 come seasons end but I wouldnt be surprised if he were around even. Teams are now keying on carter and richards while before briere was playing with Gagne and they were clearly the line to watch. He wont have the top lines going up against him anymore. If its gagne, richards, knuble and lupul, carter, hartnell i think teams will be sending out their top lines against them instead of upshall, briere, giroux if thats how things work out.

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02-26-2009, 10:45 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
If its all about scoring more than your opponent than stop pointing out JUST his even strength stats. Powerplays DO happen and if its about scoring more than your oppenent then I want briere back because with him on the PP we do score more than our opponent.

I honestly think Briere will be better in the +/- area when he comes back. Im not saying he will be +10 come seasons end but I wouldnt be surprised if he were around even. Teams are now keying on carter and richards while before briere was playing with Gagne and they were clearly the line to watch. He wont have the top lines going up against him anymore. If its gagne, richards, knuble and lupul, carter, hartnell i think teams will be sending out their top lines against them instead of upshall, briere, giroux if thats how things work out.
People here might kill themselves if that happened. Imagine Briere, in the +, and putting up points. I think the Flyers boards might crash...

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Old
02-26-2009, 12:04 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
If its all about scoring more than your opponent than stop pointing out JUST his even strength stats. Powerplays DO happen and if its about scoring more than your oppenent then I want briere back because with him on the PP we do score more than our opponent.
Look at what our PP has done without Briere. It isn't going to leap some significant % once he returns...it's just not. We're not going to have a 30% PP. Therefore, the addition to the PP from Briere is negligible at best most likely. The question, then, is whether we're really improved by adding to a PP that is performing at almost the height of the efficiency you can expect...while detracting some from even strength play.

As said...if we had a 15% PP...then Briere coming back would be a huge boost to our club. Our PP is humming right along without him, which decreases his value to this team exponentially.

Quote:
I honestly think Briere will be better in the +/- area when he comes back. Im not saying he will be +10 come seasons end but I wouldnt be surprised if he were around even. Teams are now keying on carter and richards while before briere was playing with Gagne and they were clearly the line to watch. He wont have the top lines going up against him anymore. If its gagne, richards, knuble and lupul, carter, hartnell i think teams will be sending out their top lines against them instead of upshall, briere, giroux if thats how things work out.
Well, Gagne didn't play last year really, so they weren't really keying on the two of them for much of the season. And if you really think a team like the Caps isn't going to throw Ovechkin over the boards for an offensive zone draw with Briere out there you're kidding yourself.

Teams will be sending out their strong defensive lines against Carter and Richards...they'll be sending out their scoring lines to do damage against Briere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
People here might kill themselves if that happened. Imagine Briere, in the +, and putting up points. I think the Flyers boards might crash...
Which wouldn't really equate to proof of him "improving" our even strength play. As noted with Buffalo...the guy was putting up prolific even strength numbers and still +30 behind a teammate.

Lets just hope he can get back to maintaining an even rating, since then he won't be hurting us.

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Old
02-26-2009, 12:07 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Look at what our PP has done without Briere. It isn't going to leap some significant % once he returns...it's just not. We're not going to have a 30% PP. Therefore, the addition to the PP from Briere is negligible at best most likely. The question, then, is whether we're really improved by adding to a PP that is performing at almost the height of the efficiency you can expect...while detracting some from even strength play.

As said...if we had a 15% PP...then Briere coming back would be a huge boost to our club. Our PP is humming right along without him, which decreases his value to this team exponentially.
You really seem to be unwilling or unable to admit that the PP started off very hot but has been HORRIBLE for the last 2 months or so.

You're claim, clearly clouded by your obvious disdain for briere, is just silly.

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Old
02-26-2009, 12:09 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
People here might kill themselves if that happened. Imagine Briere, in the +, and putting up points. I think the Flyers boards might crash...
I dont expect a big +, I expect somewhere around even. Thats reasonablie since now we have 2 other centers that are arguably more dangerous than he is.

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Old
02-26-2009, 12:12 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Look at what our PP has done without Briere. It isn't going to leap some significant % once he returns...it's just not. We're not going to have a 30% PP. Therefore, the addition to the PP from Briere is negligible at best most likely. The question, then, is whether we're really improved by adding to a PP that is performing at almost the height of the efficiency you can expect...while detracting some from even strength play.

As said...if we had a 15% PP...then Briere coming back would be a huge boost to our club. Our PP is humming right along without him, which decreases his value to this team exponentially.



Well, Gagne didn't play last year really, so they weren't really keying on the two of them for much of the season. And if you really think a team like the Caps isn't going to throw Ovechkin over the boards for an offensive zone draw with Briere out there you're kidding yourself.

Teams will be sending out their strong defensive lines against Carter and Richards...they'll be sending out their scoring lines to do damage against Briere.



Which wouldn't really equate to proof of him "improving" our even strength play. As noted with Buffalo...the guy was putting up prolific even strength numbers and still +30 behind a teammate.

Lets just hope he can get back to maintaining an even rating, since then he won't be hurting us.
Our powerplay has been terrible lately whether you want to admit it or not. It started hot and has cooled off a ton, if we add Briere to the PP my opinion is that it will go back to where it was before and even if that means us adding just a little more offense, thats fine with me. Briere never got steady linemates, put him with a couple defensive minded forwards on the 3rd line and limit his ES ice time and use him for the PP and he will be great for us.

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Old
02-26-2009, 12:15 PM
  #208
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Old
02-26-2009, 02:34 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
You really seem to be unwilling or unable to admit that the PP started off very hot but has been HORRIBLE for the last 2 months or so.

You're claim, clearly clouded by your obvious disdain for briere, is just silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Our powerplay has been terrible lately whether you want to admit it or not. It started hot and has cooled off a ton, if we add Briere to the PP my opinion is that it will go back to where it was before and even if that means us adding just a little more offense, thats fine with me.
Our PP started off at our average, then went crazy in December. Here are the numbers:

October 22.9%
November 20%
December 37%
January 16.6% (0-11 against St. Louis killed it)
February 16.6%

Reversion to mean friggin sucks, but it's the way it goes when you put up a friggin 37% spot in December. Freaking out over the PP regressing slightly is pretty much the same thing as the idiots that wanted to trade Ryan Howard last June. Cuz, you know, he was sucking and we better get something before he lost all value.

PPs do not operate at a consistent threshold. Some times they're going to get the goals, sometimes they're not going to get the goals. Sometimes you're going to be 37%, sometimes you're going to be 16%. Danny Briere isn't going to change that.

Quote:
Briere never got steady linemates, put him with a couple defensive minded forwards on the 3rd line and limit his ES ice time and use him for the PP and he will be great for us.
Simon Gagne was a minus player for the first time in his career last year in the 25 games he played with Briere.

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Old
02-27-2009, 02:07 PM
  #210
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Canucks fan here, I'll offer you Jason LaBarbera and any one of Kevin Bieksa, Mattias Ohlund, Shane O'Brien, Sami Salo. Can we make a deal quick before you change your mind?

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Old
02-27-2009, 02:29 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Our PP started off at our average, then went crazy in December. Here are the numbers:

October 22.9%
November 20%
December 37%
January 16.6% (0-11 against St. Louis killed it)
February 16.6%

Reversion to mean friggin sucks, but it's the way it goes when you put up a friggin 37% spot in December. Freaking out over the PP regressing slightly is pretty much the same thing as the idiots that wanted to trade Ryan Howard last June. Cuz, you know, he was sucking and we better get something before he lost all value.

PPs do not operate at a consistent threshold. Some times they're going to get the goals, sometimes they're not going to get the goals. Sometimes you're going to be 37%, sometimes you're going to be 16%. Danny Briere isn't going to change that.



Simon Gagne was a minus player for the first time in his career last year in the 25 games he played with Briere.
Obviously the pp will go up and down but the fact is it's been bad for 2 months, your crazy if you don't think it will me better when he comes back. Yes there will be down times but maybe if he's here that 16% is an 18% and that may have won us an extra game or two which would put us on pace for 1st in the division given the games in hand between us and nj.

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02-27-2009, 02:35 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Simon Gagne was a minus player for the first time in his career last year in the 25 games he played with Briere.
And we have a new winner for the coveted "Worst Argument of the Thread" award.

Jester, step up and collect your prize!

While you collect your prize, also collect your memory and remember that Gagne played 17 games last year with a concussion and according to everybody was nowhere near the same player. In Gagne's first 8 games with Briere of 07-08, he had 4 G and 4 A and was even before the concussion hit.

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Old
02-27-2009, 02:51 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
And we have a new winner for the coveted "Worst Argument of the Thread" award.

Jester, step up and collect your prize!

While you collect your prize, also collect your memory and remember that Gagne played 17 games last year with a concussion and according to everybody was nowhere near the same player. In Gagne's first 8 games with Briere of 07-08, he had 4 G and 4 A and was even before the concussion hit.
Jester takes numbers too "as a matter of fact" when it's his argument and never thinks about why the stay was that way. But when other people use stats against his argument he breaks out ridiculous excuses why the stat doesn't tell the whole story and how it's so flawed. Makes me laugh sometimes.

Good point though flyhigh.

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Old
02-27-2009, 10:14 PM
  #214
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timmonen was out, but bet briere could've helped turn the 0fer 8 into at least 1 goal.
Proof is in the pudding

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02-27-2009, 10:20 PM
  #215
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Briere would have helped that horrible powerplay we had tonight.

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Old
02-27-2009, 10:34 PM
  #216
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I can't wait for Danny to return

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Old
02-27-2009, 10:40 PM
  #217
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This thread should be locked.

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Old
02-27-2009, 10:51 PM
  #218
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Briere plays, we win that game.

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02-28-2009, 04:47 AM
  #219
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^and this is why he gets paid the big bucks. I hope to god he and kimmo are playing sunday

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02-28-2009, 07:22 AM
  #220
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Old
02-28-2009, 10:07 AM
  #221
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Paging Jester?

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:09 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Briere plays, we win that game.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

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02-28-2009, 10:54 AM
  #223
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We need Danny Briere.

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Old
02-28-2009, 12:14 PM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
Paging Jester?
jester will come in with some bull saying how were all playing the what if game and how we dont know the outcome if briere had played or not. He'll have so e weak argument amount averages and how teams are bound to slump at some point and every one of us will read his post shaking our heads saying as much bull that you throw out there we all know this game is a win with the munchkin playing. And worst of all it's just one of many lately that have gone this way. This is the prime example of why come playoff time we NEED Daniel Briere.

He will prob also pick out one part of this post to argue and disregard the point that we need briere.


Last edited by Juicy Couturier*: 02-28-2009 at 12:21 PM.
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Old
02-28-2009, 12:39 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
jester will come in with some bull saying how were all playing the what if game and how we dont know the outcome if briere had played or not. He'll have so e weak argument amount averages and how teams are bound to slump at some point and every one of us will read his post shaking our heads saying as much bull that you throw out there we all know this game is a win with the munchkin playing. And worst of all it's just one of many lately that have gone this way. This is the prime example of why come playoff time we NEED Daniel Briere.

He will prob also pick out one part of this post to argue and disregard the point that we need briere.


We had all kinds of munchkins playing in this one.

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