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I never said Howson said that was why. I said he used them as examples of why he wasn't worried about not getting a #1 during the draft/summer. Sorry but I vividly remember Howson on 1460 last summer saying exactly that. He was asked about not getting a true #1 during the draft and commented he thought Umberger could step up and he was confident Brassard was ready for a breakout year. I also seem to recall similar comments coming out of his town hall meetings.
I am sure Howson's intent WAS to get a true #1, but he wasn't willing to sell the farm to do so. Two number 2's or a 2 and a good 3 can serve a purpose, especially when they put effort into bolstering the blueline.
RE: Adding Spezza would hamper the jackets--ummm...you do realize that the jackets don't give a rats behind about the cap, right? They operate under this thing called a budget, and Howson already has his for next year so yeah, he wants to be sure that when it comes time to re-signing Nash, he has the flexibility to do so.
Maclean--Cassels, Marchant, Fedorov. All brought in and sold as #1 centers for Nash.
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Picking up a young 3rd liner because he's cheap and trying to make him a top 6.
Ummm, yeah...not quite the YOUNG players that you claimed he repeatedly went out and got no are they? Maclean was an idiot to try to sell those guys as number 1 centers to the fanbase. Howson has done nothing of the like. He is well aware of RJ's skill set, and the fact that RJ is on pace for a career year is evidence that he is playing better than expected. He is still a 2nd line winger at best, and nobody has ever tried to sell him any differently.
Howson--Umberger. Sold as a potential #1 last summer. How has that worked out?
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Again I don't see trading a potential superstar like Filatov (who can actually shoot and score I might add) for another 1st line "experiment" whose career high is 42 points. I wouldn't mind giving Staal a try but not at the expense of Filatov and Voracek. If you are including either of them it better be for a bona fide #1 who has proven he can play that position at the NHL level.
I would never trade Voracek, NEVER. Imo, he can be better than Nash. Anyone who would trade Voracek before Filatov needs to get their head examined.
Maybe I'm not up to date on how well certain Columbus defensemen are playing but I wouldn't say you have "enough talent to compete with anybody" when I don't even see a top 2 defenseman on the team.
Your preliminary supposition is correct. We don't have any clear #1 all-around guys, but we have a very good 3-4 guy (Commie), a 3-4 guy who might move up eventually (Tyutin), and a guy I would take over any other pure shutdown defenseman in the league (Hejda).
Klesla (another 3-4 guy who eats minutes) has been in and out this year, and Russell is still developing, along with Methot. OKT and Backman are kind of throw-ins.
Columbus's D is kind of like Vancouver's has been. Not exactly filled with heralded superstars, but they get the job done very effectively.
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Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards
Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
RE: Adding Spezza would hamper the jackets--ummm...you do realize that the jackets don't give a rats behind about the cap, right? They operate under this thing called a budget, and Howson already has his for next year so yeah, he wants to be sure that when it comes time to re-signing Nash, he has the flexibility to do so.
Howson and Priest have both repeatedly said there is no hard cap and there is room to add payroll for the right player.
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Originally Posted by hashmarks
Ummm, yeah...not quite the YOUNG players that you claimed he repeatedly went out and got no are they? Maclean was an idiot to try to sell those guys as number 1 centers to the fanbase. Howson has done nothing of the like. He is well aware of RJ's skill set, and the fact that RJ is on pace for a career year is evidence that he is playing better than expected. He is still a 2nd line winger at best, and nobody has ever tried to sell him any differently.
Go back and read what I wrote. I never said anything about young players. I said this organization has a history of picking up 3rd and 4th liners and trying to make them a top line center instead of paying the price for a proven #1. And no Staal is not. Howson did sell Umberger last summer. I personally heard him do it on 1460. Malhotra? Are you kidding me. The mere fact he is our current #1 center speaks volumes to the problem.
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Originally Posted by hashmarks
Imo, he can be better than Nash. Anyone who would trade Voracek before Filatov needs to get their head examined.
Check back in 4-5 years. Filatov will be a superstar. He has already averaged almost 2.5ppg as a Junior which is over a point more per game than Voracek.
Me, too. In a package similar to the OP. Prefer Letang to Goligoski or Whitney, and I'd simplify it a bit, but the general parameters are there. (Much as I'd hate to move Nikki.)
Geez, from reading the comments here and on the Jackets board, you would think Filatov is the unnatural spawn of the forbidden union of Gretzky and Ovechkin.
I concede that Filatov does have a lot of talent / potential, but until he proves his ability over a period of time in the NHL that is all it is. He has 4 goals in his 8 games this year with 3 of them coming in one game. So which is the fluke stat - 1 goal in 7 games or 3 goals in 1?
I think Filatov can prosper in the NHL, but it will depend on his linemates. His major pros are his speed and shot. His major cons are his lack of size and his tendency to get knocked off the puck. Considering this, I think he would be best suited to be paired up with a playmaker. He can be the finisher without having to carry the puck. Playing on a line with Crosby would seem like a perfect fit.
If Filatov stays in Columbus, who would set him up? The Jackets have been trying for years to get a centerman for Nash, so now are two centers going to miraculously appear? Since both are left wings, the Jackets' best center is going to play with Nash leaving Filatov to play with lesser talent. I'm not sure if he will prosper in this situation.
The Jackets two main weaknesses are center and an offensive D-man. Now looking at their roster, who could you trade to fill these needs?
I think Nash is the most untouchable, then followed by Brassard, Voracek and then maybe Filatov. So the deal was to trade your FOURTH best offensive talent plus picks/prospects to fill TWO areas of need.
Staal has size, but is still lanky and can fill out more. If you put him with Nash, there is some good size on that line. Some people like Goligoski better than Whitney. That is a personal preference, but Whitney has more size, pedigree, and is still not completely over his surgery. He should be back to normal by next season.
I still see a lot of potential in this trade because both teams can benefit.
Geez, from reading the comments here and on the Jackets board, you would think Filatov is the unnatural spawn of the forbidden union of Gretzky and Ovechkin.
I concede that Filatov does have a lot of talent / potential, but until he proves his ability over a period of time in the NHL that is all it is. He has 4 goals in his 8 games this year with 3 of them coming in one game. So which is the fluke stat - 1 goal in 7 games or 3 goals in 1?
Considering he averaged almost 2.5 points per game as a Junior I would say 1 goal in 7 is the fluke. One thing to remember about Filatov's NHL games is they were spread out. He played a few early in the year and a few later. He was never allowed to stay for any significant amount of time and get comfortable. I may be in the minority but I think Filatov will be a better player than Voracek. Everyone is in love with Voracek because he may pass Nash's rookie numbers. Big deal. Nash went straight to the NHL and played on a bad CBJ team. I also don't agree that Filatov needs a setup man. He's a very dynamic offensive player that IMHO can make his own changes. All he needs to do is bulk up which isn't hard for an 18 year old and get comfortable with the NHL rink. I predict he comes into camp next summer much bigger and stronger and really lights it up next year. I stand by my opinion that Filatov > Voracek and I think the next 4 years will prove it. If Columbus trades him now they will regret it.
yes you guys are right and every nhl scout and gm is wrong..... you guys no more then people who get paid for a living to do this stuff... surely that's it!
and as or the trade offer made PIt wins big time in this one.... I do how ever think the idea behind this is a good one
Of course. We all know how impeccable their judgment is. Patrick Stefan FTW!
Howson and Priest have both repeatedly said there is no hard cap and there is room to add payroll for the right player.
Yes, the RIGHT player. Dude, I have heard it straight from the mouth of many in the org. that picking up a guy with a Spezza-like contract would cripple the org. in the future, so get over it. Adding a player and salary is one thing, adding a contract like that ain't going to happen.
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Go back and read what I wrote. I never said anything about young players.
Ummm, yes you did. I quoted it in a previous post.
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I said this organization has a history of picking up 3rd and 4th liners and trying to make them a top line center instead of paying the price for a proven #1. And no Staal is not. Howson did sell Umberger last summer.
I am well aware of the crap that went on with Maclean and his sale's pitches, but like someone else already said--RJ was going to play along side Nash. If you think Howson doesn't realize that both he and Manny and even Brassard aren't top line centers, you have misinterpreted what he has said. They are simply trying to make the best out of the situation that they are in. If Maclean had half a brain, we would have either Richards, Kopitar or Getzlaf playing with Nash.
From an interview with Scott Howson:
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We were weak at center ice, then we got weaker when Derick Brassard was lost for the season. He was probably our second-line center at that point. We put Umberger in the middle. That's not an awkward fit because he can play anywhere, but we prefer to have him on the wing. We've been pretty clear that center ice is the position we're trying to add to, probably at the higher end. Although there doesn't seem to be a lot out there available at the higher end.
Check back in 4-5 years. Filatov will be a superstar. He has already averaged almost 2.5ppg as a Junior which is over a point more per game than Voracek.
Will do. Bring your Voracek stats in tow as well. I guess Voracek's 101 points in 53 games (north American games) isn't in the superstar realm
It's not 242 points in 100 games. Wonder who did that?
One of them is currently playing in the NHL, the other is not deemed ready. Which is which?
They are both going to be great players, but it is my contention that if we could trade one to help the team get the long lost center, it would be Filatov. Hey, some people love soft, light skill, I am just not one of them. It would be great if we could address our needs without letting either of them go.
Some serious underrating of filatov here and overtating of staal... I don't think CBJ trades filatov for staal straigh up, let alone adds a first to get an overpaid Whitney...
It's not 242 points in 100 games. Wonder who did that?
You should have specified russian junior leagues, I suppose. I don't know why you're relying on those stats when Filatov has 20 points in the AHL while he's still 18 though. His AHL numbers are way more impressive, and do a lot more for your argument than anything he did in Russia.
One of them is currently playing in the NHL, the other is not deemed ready. Which is which?
And one is a year older. How many games did Voracek play in the NHL last year? That would be 0 so I guess Filatov is already ahead of him since he played 8 games in his first year. I never said Voracek wouldn't be good. You're the one who claimed anyone picking Filatov over Voracek was an idiot.
This team has 4 active players with 10 goals or more this year (and Voracek isn't one of them). That's pathetic. They need someone who can score goals consistently. Filatov fits that mold better than Voracek in my opinion. He's done it at every level he has played.
I posted his Junior stats merely because they were easy to get on TSN's website. I wish they would list AHL stats for younger players as well.
And one is a year older. How many games did Voracek play in the NHL last year? That would be 0 so I guess Filatov is already ahead of him since he played 8 games in his first year.
Yeeaaahhh, typical HF board logic...
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I never said Voracek wouldn't be good. You're the one who claimed anyone picking Filatov over Voracek was an idiot.
And I stand by that. Voracek prided himself in jr. with his board play. Although it hasn't translated into the NHL game yet, I would rather have a guy with possibly a bit less skill, but is willing to get his hands dirty than a guy who is only effective in open ice. Filatov will catch on, but when? How long will he take? 3 years? 4 years? In that time, if we can use him to get that elusive center, I would do it. Voracek? No way--the guy will be a lot better and more consistent next season, imo.
And I stand by it--a player has to be more well rounded than just being able to fling pucks to the net. If we had a proper top 6, Voracek would be playing the allotted minutes he should be (minimal) and his goal production (or lack thereof) wouldn't be used against him like you tried to do.
Stating that Filatov has 'scored at every level he has played' is a stretch if you are trying to apply it to the NHL games he has played. Voracek started the year scoring at a vapid pace as well. It didn't take long before they figured out how to get the puck off of him.
Other than Filatov's hattrick game, didn't you see how he got manhandled in games? He was ragdolled off the puck li
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This team has 4 active players with 10 goals or more this year (and Voracek isn't one of them). That's pathetic. They need someone who can score goals consistently. Filatov fits that mold better than Voracek in my opinion. He's done it at every level he has played.
I agree, but it is better than last year. Considering that, however, I would much rather see Filatov playing exactly where he is. I want this team to grow properly instead of fast tracking guys. Quite frankly if Voracek was AHL eligible it wouldn't surprise me if he would be there too.
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I posted his Junior stats merely because they were easy to get on TSN's website. I wish they would list AHL stats for younger players as well.
Why not just go to the Crunch website?
20 points in 28 games with 11 goals for Filatov--He isn't exactly ripping up the AHL-averaging right around 2 goals per month...
So Whitney's out of the picture, but the Pens still need a reasonably priced scoring winger and the Jackets still need a center and an offensive D-man. What if we replaced Whitney with Goligoski? The proposed trades would be either:
Filatov + 1st for Staal + Goligoski
or
Filatov, Mayorov, + 2nd for Staal + Goligoski
Goligoski right now makes less than $1 million, but is due for a new contract. He has a good shot that he likes to use a lot. He is not nearly as big as Whitney is, even though Whitney never took full use of his size.
So Whitney's out of the picture, but the Pens still need a reasonably priced scoring winger and the Jackets still need a center and an offensive D-man. What if we replaced Whitney with Goligoski? The proposed trades would be either:
Filatov + 1st for Staal + Goligoski
or
Filatov, Mayorov, + 2nd for Staal + Goligoski
Goligoski right now makes less than $1 million, but is due for a new contract. He has a good shot that he likes to use a lot. He is not nearly as big as Whitney is, even though Whitney never took full use of his size.
So Whitney's out of the picture, but the Pens still need a reasonably priced scoring winger and the Jackets still need a center and an offensive D-man. What if we replaced Whitney with Goligoski? The proposed trades would be either:
Filatov + 1st for Staal + Goligoski
or
Filatov, Mayorov, + 2nd for Staal + Goligoski
Goligoski right now makes less than $1 million, but is due for a new contract. He has a good shot that he likes to use a lot. He is not nearly as big as Whitney is, even though Whitney never took full use of his size.
Filatov is not going anywhere. Why would the Pens want him right now anyway? I thought they needed someone to play with Crosby now. They would be better off targeting Huselius or Umberger if they wanted an immediate impact player. Change Filatov to Huselius and I would do that deal in a heartbeat. Columbus could also throw in a good 3rd line center to replace Staal. We seem to have alot of those
