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Old
02-26-2009, 08:31 AM
  #1
Fletch
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Renney in today's Post

mods - sorry if you don't want this to be a stand-alone thread. It will definitely be discussed and I didn't know under which of the 20 Renney threads it belonged.

I have had my criticisms of Renney in the past, and they are a plenty, but now, after hearing him in the Post, I think his next stint as head coach will be even better than with the Rangers (only because he agrees with me). I think he's grown as a coach in many ways (remember the time out debates in his first season when he wouldn't take them and this season he's probably taken more than the prior 3 seasons comined), and that his self analysis and retrospective thoughts will make him better going forward.

Some things noted (again, sorry, I only have a hard copy of the paper): he thinks he should've pushed harder for Sather to sign Jagr (as well as Shanny in December). Why? He felt their departure left too much of a void (a little disappointed he needs to figure this out in retrospect, however, when it was plain as day when it happened).

He also stated there was a struggle all year with internal leadership (didn't see that coming?). In other words, he doesn't think Gomez and Drury were the leaders he had hoped they would be and it was a problem.

Also, he regrets no showing his side that contains an "edge". Basically, he wanted to coddle his stars and not be in their face, and that was a mistake. He believes he should've been more demanding and intheir face.

One thing I always said about Renney is that he's a great analyzer. Didn't think much of what he could during the game (i.e., adjustments), but if he took a step back, he'd be able to see things in the hockey world better than most everyone, and it seems like he did that and I'm glad he and I are in agreement.

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02-26-2009, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
mods - sorry if you don't want this to be a stand-alone thread. It will definitely be discussed and I didn't know under which of the 20 Renney threads it belonged.

I have had my criticisms of Renney in the past, and they are a plenty, but now, after hearing him in the Post, I think his next stint as head coach will be even better than with the Rangers (only because he agrees with me). I think he's grown as a coach in many ways (remember the time out debates in his first season when he wouldn't take them and this season he's probably taken more than the prior 3 seasons comined), and that his self analysis and retrospective thoughts will make him better going forward.

Some things noted (again, sorry, I only have a hard copy of the paper): he thinks he should've pushed harder for Sather to sign Jagr (as well as Shanny in December). Why? He felt their departure left too much of a void (a little disappointed he needs to figure this out in retrospect, however, when it was plain as day when it happened).

He also stated there was a struggle all year with internal leadership (didn't see that coming?). In other words, he doesn't think Gomez and Drury were the leaders he had hoped they would be and it was a problem.

Also, he regrets no showing his side that contains an "edge". Basically, he wanted to coddle his stars and not be in their face, and that was a mistake. He believes he should've been more demanding and intheir face.

One thing I always said about Renney is that he's a great analyzer. Didn't think much of what he could during the game (i.e., adjustments), but if he took a step back, he'd be able to see things in the hockey world better than most everyone, and it seems like he did that and I'm glad he and I are in agreement.
Internal leadership doesn't surprise me one bit, and what he says about Jagr & Shanny is very telling, now if we could only hear Sathers rebuttal

I agree, he'll go on to be a successful coach wherever he lands.

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02-26-2009, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I think he's grown as a coach in many ways (remember the time out debates in his first season when he wouldn't take them and this season he's probably taken more than the prior 3 seasons comined), and that his self analysis and retrospective thoughts will make him better going forward.
I was stuck with the TSN feed on NHLnet last night and, ironically, that's exactly what the "desk crew" said about Torts. Through working with him over the course of the year, they felt he had really identified the mistakes he made in Tampa, addressed how he would do things differently next time, and also learned a lot by watching a lot of NHL games and conversing regularly with analysts like McKenzie and McGuire. (bit of a pat on the back there, McGuire was giving us this report)

There's a good video on there online put together by Honda Performance Development entitled "Failure: The new success" that talks how much can be learned from failure, and I think Renney can be a case study. He's going to emerge as a better coach for the experience.

It should also be noted that TSN couldn't stop commenting on how "the wrong guy was fired". The second intermission was dedicated to an anti-Sather rant that would have had many here salivating. Not sure if they're closet Renney lovers, or are trying to minimize expectations for their buddy Torts, but McKenzie and Super Ray inparticular ripped off laundry lists of Sather errors and failures over the years.

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02-26-2009, 08:57 AM
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I think that many have been taking a look up and down this Rangers roster and realizing that it ain't so great. Of course, they (the "experts") do things the shortcut way and say, hmmm, no superstars; this team is short on talent, so it's tough to take what they say seriously and I'm sure they think one of Sather's biggest mistakes was not resigning Jagr and Shanny, why? Because they are names they recognize. I'm really disappointed in hockey analysts all over. They really do not seem to dig deep and analyze these teams and really just look at things from the surface.

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02-26-2009, 09:03 AM
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Loved the article, and I think Renney was fine with Jagr and Shanny being gone when they were 13 games over .500 but clearly he thinks (as well as we all do) that the direction the team went in 2008 and now 2009 had an adverse effect on the quality of play.

At least renney is honest and said he would have done more to retain Jagr and Shanny. But I think he took a little swipe there at Drury and Gomez, and considering how poor they have been this season, I think it's justified.

I think renney is a very good coach who doesn't need to make too many drastic adjustments for his next job. I think he will have a coaching job in the NHL next season (Ottawa, Montreal, St. Louis???)

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02-26-2009, 09:05 AM
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He also stated there was a struggle all year with internal learship de(didn't see that coming?). In other words, he doesn't think Gomez and Drury were the leaders he had hoped they would be and it was a problem.

Also, he regrets no showing his side that contains an "edge". Basically, he wanted to coddle his stars and not be in their face, and that was a mistake. He believes he should've been more demanding and intheir face.
This was my biggest problem with Renny. He had the longest time to try to motivate these players before these slumps become unfixable. He seemed afraid to mess with Sather's picks or beg him for movement.
Even if Rennys system turns out better, I feel at least torts isnt afraid to tell Sather he needs better players!

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02-26-2009, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
.

He also stated there was a struggle all year with internal leadership (didn't see that coming?). In other words, he doesn't think Gomez and Drury were the leaders he had hoped they would be and it was a problem.

Pretty candid for Tom eh? Thats a salty comment at this stage of the game.

Interesting to see where that comment leads

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02-26-2009, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Of course, they (the "experts") do things the shortcut way and say, hmmm, no superstars; this team is short on talent, so it's tough to take what they say seriously and I'm sure they think one of Sather's biggest mistakes was not resigning Jagr and Shanny, why? Because they are names they recognize.
Not really. They had pulled out footage of Jessiman, Montoya, et al, receiving their sweaters on draft day, trashed the pre-lockout coaching choices, railed against UFA signings dating back to 2000, cited the quotes from his EDM days of how he'd be "competing for the Cup every year with the NYR budget", etc, etc, etc.

The heart of it were the draft failures though and, as McKenzie put it, put Sather on the track of "chasing his tail" with UFA's to fill the void.

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02-26-2009, 09:13 AM
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Scipio - I think it was a big swipe at Gomez and Drury, which now explains, to a certain extent, the comments made by Drury upon Renney's departure.

MJ - thanks for the clarification - I'm surprised they so deep (although looking at the roster and realizing who's homegrown would tell you how many #1 picks the Rangers have had are currently on this team. I think the number stands at two currently. Two first round picks of Sather's is currently on this team.

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02-26-2009, 09:57 AM
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This is yet another indictment on Gomez. This stuff has been brewing for years.

The Gomez who plays with a star (Jagr) is far better than the Gomez who needs to be the star.

The public will find out soon that Gomez was the ringleader in the anti-Renney movement. They may also find out that he's been openly pushing for Tortorella since December.

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02-26-2009, 10:07 AM
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This is yet another indictment on Gomez. This stuff has been brewing for years.

The Gomez who plays with a star (Jagr) is far better than the Gomez who needs to be the star.

The public will find out soon that Gomez was the ringleader in the anti-Renney movement. They may also find out that he's been openly pushing for Tortorella since December.
Why not just ask for a trade? Renny kissed Gomers ass. Torts is going to take one look at Gomezs anti bang for the buck and send him packing...

watch

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02-26-2009, 10:14 AM
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Thanks for posting this, Fletch. I think Tom will have great success in his next coaching gig.

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02-26-2009, 10:20 AM
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This is yet another indictment on Gomez. This stuff has been brewing for years.

The Gomez who plays with a star (Jagr) is far better than the Gomez who needs to be the star.

The public will find out soon that Gomez was the ringleader in the anti-Renney movement. They may also find out that he's been openly pushing for Tortorella since December.
First of all, Gomez didn't play with Jagr. But you're right, Gomez needs a star. In fact, he needs to be surrounded by stars, like he was in NJ, when he was a role player.

But how exactly do you see this team acquiring those stars when you're paying a second line center 7 mill a season?

My guess: Gomez is just as useless under Tortorella as he was under Renney.

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02-26-2009, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abev View Post
This is yet another indictment on Gomez. This stuff has been brewing for years.

The Gomez who plays with a star (Jagr) is far better than the Gomez who needs to be the star.

The public will find out soon that Gomez was the ringleader in the anti-Renney movement. They may also find out that he's been openly pushing for Tortorella since December.
I have known this for some time. That's why the sooner his smirking wiseass face is off the Ranger roster they happier I'll be.

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02-26-2009, 10:29 AM
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he played behind Jagr...away from the attention, both from fans and media and from other teams.

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02-26-2009, 10:33 AM
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he played behind Jagr...away from the attention, both from fans and media and from other teams.
Could be why Jagr wanted the young impressionable Dubinsky to center him instead of Gomez.

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02-26-2009, 10:59 AM
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No surprises there... it's pretty obvious Gomez is no leader, with that a-hole grin on his face after he takes a penalty or turns over the puck. Drury is pretty quiet and uninspiring as a captain.

Renney is pretty spot-on with his analysis, I think if he coaches with more of an edge and avoids coddling his veterans he will have more success elsewhere. I read in an article earlier in the year that Sather wanted to bring Shanny back, but Renney was hesitant for him to come back midseason. I think that's what Renney was referring to in this article when he said "I was the one standing in his way."

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02-26-2009, 01:36 PM
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Not saying it's not true--but the Gomez stuff appears speculation at this point. Not happy with him though and not happy with a captain who struggles to say the right thing in public and even so can't get it together on the ice. 16 games without a goal now. Going back to when he was signed--lots of people focused more than anything on the 37 regular season goals and the clutch playoff goals he got against us. He was being looked at as a goal scorer.

As for Jagr and Shanahan--I don't think we need Shanahan back. He does not appear to me to have much left in the tank. Great leadership skills but he would probably have been very much a part time player at least the first half. We miss Jagr badly though. His numbers were declining but he took a lot of pressure off the other players both on the ice and off. He faced the biggest players--the toughest checkers. He also kept the team loose--handled the media very well. We miss Avery and we miss Straka. We've been through Avery enough but Straka was one hell of a hard worker--often racing back into the defensive end to break up plays. We also miss the kind of character Ortmeyer was--a limited player for sure but a guy who would give everything on the ice.

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02-26-2009, 01:42 PM
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Sometimes a coach losing his job leads to him learning a few things.

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02-26-2009, 01:50 PM
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Sometimes a coach losing his job leads to him learning a few things.
He was learning those things anyway... Good coaches always do... And Renney is a good coach.

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02-26-2009, 01:52 PM
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He was learning those things anyway... Good coaches always do... And Renney is a good coach.
Never seemed to learn that constant line juggling doesn't work, that his PP coach was awful, and that putting the 4th line on the ice in critical parts of the game is just a terrible move...

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02-26-2009, 01:52 PM
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Wow.. at the end of the article, when mentioning what he's proud of accomplishing as the Rangers head coach... he doesn't name a single player on the current roster.

Quote:
"I'm very proud of what we did in New York, and what people like Jags, Shanny, Marty Straka, Michael Nylander and Sean [Avery] did in helping to bring the franchise back,
Not as naive as I thought he was.
He knows this team gave up on him.

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02-26-2009, 02:07 PM
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He also stated there was a struggle all year with internal leadership (didn't see that coming?). In other words, he doesn't think Gomez and Drury were the leaders he had hoped they would be and it was a problem.
Hmm...I guess Mr. Intangibles doesn't even have intangibles.

I remember all this talk "we don't know what goes on in the locker room"....I guess with Captain Drury, it's nothing!

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02-26-2009, 02:31 PM
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Maybe he should replace Sather as GM.

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02-26-2009, 02:42 PM
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mods - sorry if you don't want this to be a stand-alone thread. It will definitely be discussed and I didn't know under which of the 20 Renney threads it belonged.

I have had my criticisms of Renney in the past, and they are a plenty, but now, after hearing him in the Post, I think his next stint as head coach will be even better than with the Rangers (only because he agrees with me). I think he's grown as a coach in many ways (remember the time out debates in his first season when he wouldn't take them and this season he's probably taken more than the prior 3 seasons comined), and that his self analysis and retrospective thoughts will make him better going forward.

Some things noted (again, sorry, I only have a hard copy of the paper): he thinks he should've pushed harder for Sather to sign Jagr (as well as Shanny in December). Why? He felt their departure left too much of a void (a little disappointed he needs to figure this out in retrospect, however, when it was plain as day when it happened).

He also stated there was a struggle all year with internal leadership (didn't see that coming?). In other words, he doesn't think Gomez and Drury were the leaders he had hoped they would be and it was a problem.

Also, he regrets no showing his side that contains an "edge". Basically, he wanted to coddle his stars and not be in their face, and that was a mistake. He believes he should've been more demanding and intheir face.

One thing I always said about Renney is that he's a great analyzer. Didn't think much of what he could during the game (i.e., adjustments), but if he took a step back, he'd be able to see things in the hockey world better than most everyone, and it seems like he did that and I'm glad he and I are in agreement.
Too bad he can't be that way even if he tried. He doesnt have that innate ability inside him to be that way. Its just not in his fabric, and players can read that. Thats why he gets tuned out.

He's got no other edge... like theres some hidden dual personality we've never seen... it doesnt exist.

That is his biggest downfall as a coach.

Great guy, good mind for the game, but his shortfalls in that area goes hand in hand with his inability to coach outside of his comfort zone, and that leads to sub par stretches during games and stretches during the season.

Im sure hell tack onto another team, and i wish him all the best. But hes not the type of coach i would want running my team if im a different NHL team's fan.

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