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Old
02-25-2009, 09:03 PM
  #26
txpd
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I've learned that the values that fans put on players almost always are wrong, because we are not aware of all the conditions at play. Players bring more or bring less than what we think because we don't know enough.

I have also learned that McPhee never tips his hand. What he says is usually true to the letter of the comment. Last season he said that he would not sell the farm. That he would make a move if he could improve the team and it was not too expensive. He made three trades including a starting goaltender and a hall of fame former hart trophy center.

He said that the only time he saw Gustafsson play that he was not very good. That based on what he saw, he was not very interested. Then he drafted him in the first round and said that his scouting staff had seen him many times and sold him that he was the guy.

Pronger may not require Carslon. We just don't know how badly Anaheim wants/needs to move him and how many other teams are making serious offers. It could be that there are other Caps prospects that Anaheim wants. The Caps have many prospects of quality.

McPhee could be looking in a competely different direction.

KDP says the Caps are one of three teams talking with the Ducks about Pronger. I believe that. We will see.

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Old
02-25-2009, 09:07 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDC-RES View Post
Name the last team to win the Cup after acquiring a big name rental player at the deadline?
Carolina traded for Weight and Recchi for their cup run. The Devils almost always landed a big fish on deadline day before they won their cups.

I think you take it too far though when you require it to be a cup winner. Sergei Fedorov made a huge impact at the deadline last season and remains a key figure.

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Old
02-25-2009, 09:17 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
I've learned that the values that fans put on players almost always are wrong, because we are not aware of all the conditions at play. Players bring more or bring less than what we think because we don't know enough.

I have also learned that McPhee never tips his hand. What he says is usually true to the letter of the comment. Last season he said that he would not sell the farm. That he would make a move if he could improve the team and it was not too expensive. He made three trades including a starting goaltender and a hall of fame former hart trophy center.

He said that the only time he saw Gustafsson play that he was not very good. That based on what he saw, he was not very interested. Then he drafted him in the first round and said that his scouting staff had seen him many times and sold him that he was the guy.

Pronger may not require Carslon. We just don't know how badly Anaheim wants/needs to move him and how many other teams are making serious offers. It could be that there are other Caps prospects that Anaheim wants. The Caps have many prospects of quality.

McPhee could be looking in a competely different direction.

KDP says the Caps are one of three teams talking with the Ducks about Pronger. I believe that. We will see.
Anaheim doesn't need to move Pronger until the season is over, and much of that will decide on Niedermayer's decision. The rumor is that Niedermayer is leaning towards staying another season, at the least. Possibly that he's informed the Ducks management of that decision already. If this is the case, Pronger becomes expendable. Niedermayer is more highly valued by the organization, and unquestionably so.

If Niedermayer stays then Pronger is gone. Either at the trade deadline, or in the off-season. The latter might make more sense, because more teams might be interested in him. I think it comes down to what kind of offers are being made right now. But they are absolutely not in any rush right now, so they can wait for the best offers, if that's what Murray wants. The Caps always seemed to be a team that stood out if they had interest in him, primarily because they had some good prospect depth. They can afford to grab a guy like Pronger and not dip too deeply into their pool and hurt themselves in the process.

Obviously, if a move were made at the trade deadline Anaheim would need to take salary in return. I'm not sure who the Caps would be willing to move who could give them the kind of space they would need.

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Old
02-25-2009, 10:47 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDC-RES View Post
Name the last team to win the Cup after acquiring a big name rental player at the deadline?


Bourque is the only one who jumps to my mind, and the Avs won the Cup with him the year AFTER they got him at the deadline.

Mortaging the team's future to take a stab at the Cup this year is a mistake. Ask Pittsburgh!

Besides: I'd like to see how far this team can go. I think, as is, they are the team comming out of the East.
Don't mean to drag this off-topic, but the Pens got a cup final out of Hossa, while only giving up a wannabe 2nd liner, a bottom six guy with an unreal wristshot that never scores, a project prospect and a 1st rounder who is a project too. Worked out pretty well for them. They're hurting this season, but you can't tell me it wasn't worth it for them.

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Old
02-25-2009, 10:48 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDC-RES View Post
Name the last team to win the Cup after acquiring a big name rental player at the deadline?


Bourque is the only one who jumps to my mind, and the Avs won the Cup with him the year AFTER they got him at the deadline.

Mortaging the team's future to take a stab at the Cup this year is a mistake. Ask Pittsburgh!

Besides: I'd like to see how far this team can go. I think, as is, they are the team comming out of the East.

The Avs picked up Blake near the '01 deadline

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Old
02-25-2009, 10:56 PM
  #31
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I love the team ( Caps), but don't think they have the goaltending to get out of the east. Think they could and should be looking for a netminder.

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Old
02-25-2009, 11:00 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDC-RES View Post
Name the last team to win the Cup after acquiring a big name rental player at the deadline?
.
Well!!!! Oilers went to the final with Pronger. Without the injury of Roloson, Pronger have another ring in his hand...

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Old
02-25-2009, 11:24 PM
  #33
txpd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Obviously, if a move were made at the trade deadline Anaheim would need to take salary in return. I'm not sure who the Caps would be willing to move who could give them the kind of space they would need.
I think we spend too much time insisting that it has to be this player or that player.
These teams have a much better idea of what they want to do than we do.

As you say, the Caps are deep in quality prospects. For instance, it may well be that Carlson is not on the table, yet if Anaheim chooses wisely they might instead land a top 4 defensemand and a top 6 forward rather just one player that might be a more sure thing.

We will see

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Old
02-26-2009, 01:50 AM
  #34
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I'd trade Carlson & 1st in heartbeat to get Pronger because he makes us the clear favorites to win the East and maybe even the Cup. Cups are worth this. If we don't win the Cup in the 2 years Pronger is here, and Carlson becomes a stud, it's a loser. Risk I'm willing to take. If we win 1 Cup, it's a winner. I disagree with the talk that this isn't the year. This is a great year for the Caps to make a serious run ... if we steady our D a little.

I think we've got more than enough assets to make a splash on deadline day, it's all a matter of dealing with: 1) the Nylander/Salary Cap issue, and 2) the heartburn that comes with trading good prospects. But we've got a number of interesting prospects that it just seems will never get a shot with us (Borque, Lepisto), and I hope we move them (or other players that open up opportunities for them). I hope McPhee makes some big moves (and not for a Goalie) b/w now and 3/4.

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Old
02-26-2009, 10:26 AM
  #35
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Washigton would be crazy not to go after Pronger. Landing a big shut down defensmen puts them over the top and a favorite to come out of the east

If you managment system is not willing to trade prospects in order to win a stanley cup, enjoy a life of watching a good hockey team that never could get over the top.

Personally I truely feel landing pronger will make Washigton the best team in the East,

Here is a deal i find to be a little more fair and approriate to the salary cap

To Wash:
Pronger

To Ducks:
Carlson
Shaone Morrisonn (salary dump)
Chris Bourque or Sami Lepisto
2nd 09

Providing this deal can get done aswell

To Toronto:
Nylander
first 09

To wash:
Dominic Moore
Mike Van Ryan

After these deals Washigton's defense is solid
Pronger Green
Poti Van Ryan
Pothier Erskine


Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
They aren't trading Carlson.

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Old
02-26-2009, 10:58 AM
  #36
Sean Garrity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovys Missing Tooth View Post
I'd trade Carlson & 1st in heartbeat to get Pronger because he makes us the clear favorites to win the East and maybe even the Cup. Cups are worth this. If we don't win the Cup in the 2 years Pronger is here, and Carlson becomes a stud, it's a loser. Risk I'm willing to take. If we win 1 Cup, it's a winner. I disagree with the talk that this isn't the year. This is a great year for the Caps to make a serious run ... if we steady our D a little.

I think we've got more than enough assets to make a splash on deadline day, it's all a matter of dealing with: 1) the Nylander/Salary Cap issue, and 2) the heartburn that comes with trading good prospects. But we've got a number of interesting prospects that it just seems will never get a shot with us (Borque, Lepisto), and I hope we move them (or other players that open up opportunities for them). I hope McPhee makes some big moves (and not for a Goalie) b/w now and 3/4.
Someone gets it... If you win a cup it will all be worth it even if you hAve to give up a stud prospect...

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Old
02-26-2009, 06:03 PM
  #37
FrankM73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PensFan101 View Post
Don't mean to drag this off-topic, but the Pens got a cup final out of Hossa, while only giving up a wannabe 2nd liner, a bottom six guy with an unreal wristshot that never scores, a project prospect and a 1st rounder who is a project too. Worked out pretty well for them. They're hurting this season, but you can't tell me it wasn't worth it for them.
it was worth it at the time for them but the difference is that the Pens don't have the draft depth to do that and still be solid in the prospect ranks. I think that Caps could lose one of the untouchables and still be very solid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR425 View Post
I love the team ( Caps), but don't think they have the goaltending to get out of the east. Think they could and should be looking for a netminder.
You may be right... but it Theo plays solid like he has been then the only issue will be defense... and with Pronger, we vault Boston as favorites to represent the East in the SCF's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juice1815 View Post
Washington would be crazy not to go after Pronger. Landing a big shut down defensmen puts them over the top and a favorite to come out of the east

If you managment system is not willing to trade prospects in order to win a stanley cup, enjoy a life of watching a good hockey team that never could get over the top.

Personally I truely feel landing pronger will make Washigton the best team in the East,

Here is a deal i find to be a little more fair and approriate to the salary cap

To Wash:
Pronger

To Ducks:
Carlson
Shaone Morrisonn (salary dump)
Chris Bourque or Sami Lepisto
2nd 09

Providing this deal can get done aswell

To Toronto:
Nylander
first 09

To wash:
Dominic Moore
Mike Van Ryan

After these deals Washigton's defense is solid
Pronger Green
Poti Van Ryan
Pothier Erskine
I think the first trade has to have a 1st in it...

the second trade needs to have another D from the Caps going over or only Nylander for a pick! Otherwise we now add Pronger and Van Ryn and only subtract Morrisonn... and the Caps already have 8 D up in DC... and that's before the possibility of Pothier getting cleared to play (unlikely IMHO, but still a possibility)

the second doesn't work Cap-wise!

it needs to be more like this:
To Toronto:
Nylander (4.875)

To wash:
2009 3rd round

----
Players IN (Caps):
Pronger (6.25 hit)

Players OUT (Caps):
Nylander (4.875)
Morrisonn (1.9 hit)


Pothier is on LTIR and not coming back soon!

D is more likely this:
Pronger Green
Poti Schultz
Alzner Jurcina
x-Erskine (scratch)
x-Kronwall (scratch)
x-Pothier (LTIR)

Quote:
Originally Posted by karacter View Post
Someone gets it... If you win a cup it will all be worth it even if you have to give up a stud prospect...
I agree but there are plenty of teams that made the "big deal" that did not put them over the top... nothing is guarenteed... for me, if they land Pronger, I think it scares the bejesus out of the other East teams... kind of an "oh crap, he's in our conference now" kind of thing!

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