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Old
02-27-2009, 03:53 PM
  #401
GKJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Wonder if they are planning on having Matsumoto and Nodl come up next year.

I mean, we can get under the cap I think, but the real issue is going to be getting anyone to play on the 3rd line and possibly our bottom defensive pairing.

Just a hypothetical...

Gagne-Richards-Briere
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
Upshall---X-------X
Asham----Powe------Cote

So I think we'll get all the big pieces, but I think we're going to lose our 3rd line scoring which will be kind of a bummer.
They feel Powe is a 3rd line player, so it shouldn't be out of the question to let guys like Matsumoto and Nodl earn jobs full-time.

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02-27-2009, 03:54 PM
  #402
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Guys, I am just seeing this due to my travels and havent read the postings....but this is idiotic.....I am fine with waiving Metro, I wasnt a big fan of him to begin with and Powe seemed to make his expendable once Briere was ready to come back but Ossi was easily our most steady dman on the back end not named Timonen all year and isnt on an expensive contract....Stupid move, absolutely stupid move.

Jones is a waste on this team and should be the one waived/moved. He is more money than both of them combined.

Now we have 0 dman who even attempt to check anyone.....

RIDICULOUS

I am beginning to wonder if Stevens/Homer are really the ones to get it done. Did Homer just get lucky with the Forsberg and Zhitnik trades??

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02-27-2009, 03:54 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
A better price would have been to simply sign him as a UFA. I saw it at the time as a good move for morale, and as long as it is the guy they wanted, and made sure they got him. Would 17 teams be tripping over each other and offering $4.5M+ on July 1, 2007? No.
Could you not this same principle and use on Vaanenen and Metro being claimed???

Why give a pick when you could claim them at no extra cost other than taking on salary?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth now, c'mon GKJ...I'm a little disapointed.

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02-27-2009, 03:56 PM
  #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
They feel Powe is a 3rd line player, so it shouldn't be out of the question to let guys like Matsumoto and Nodl earn jobs full-time.
I've gotten the impression that Powe is more of a stopgap than a guy who will play 3rd line minutes in the playoffs although you never know, I do like the guy.

They're going to be tight up against it.

I think you basically figure that Lupul's deal goes to Coburn's raise after 09-10. So you really shouldn't use that cash (assuming you trade Lupul and don't take much, if any, salary back).

So then you have Knuble's 2.8 to spend a bit. The real thing is that we're going to be paying nearly 4 mill to our 3rd pairing, that's a number that definitely can (and should) be cut.

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02-27-2009, 03:58 PM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post

Now we have 0 dman who even attempt to check anyone.....
I think the only reason Alberts is still here is because he hits more than Vaananen.

I don't like to see Ossi go, but he really wasn't too physical. Like Kimmo, he often used body positioning more than brute physicality.

I think the organization saw Parent and Ossi as 2 extremely similar players and decided to let Ossi go.

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02-27-2009, 03:58 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I think you basically figure that Lupul's deal goes to Coburn's raise after 09-10. So you really shouldn't use that cash (assuming you trade Lupul and don't take much, if any, salary back).
Take off the orange tinted glasses.

Trade a 4.25 million guy and take not much, if any...salary back?


Good luck with that.

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02-27-2009, 03:58 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Jaydepps View Post
Acquisition of Coburn
Acquisition of Carle
Signing of Timonen
Signing of Hartnell
Contract Extension to Richards
Contract Extension to Carter
Contract Extension to Coburn
Acquiring Danny Syvret
Trading Umberger and acquiring two picks which he used to draft two potentially good D-men.
Ended up turning Triston Grant and a 7th round pick into a 6th round pick
Signing Powe as an undrafted Free Agent
Contract Extension to Scottie Upshall
Contract Extension to Antero Niittymaki
Acquiring Upshall, Parent, a 3rd, and a 1st for Peter Forsberg

And some people love these and some hate em, but:

Acquiring Biron for a 2nd and signing Briere.

The list of the great things he's done is so much longer than the list of minor faults he may have.
The Coburn trade, Umberger trade and Parent trade were great....however, I am not sure how much credit you can give to a GM for throwing lots of money at the top free agents out there....that is a very obvious solution.

Also, I still think our terrible year was more of a fluke than some people think and Stevens/Homer have the benefit of a bunch of young guys that were picked before Homer and Stevens came here reaching their potential.

I am certainly happy with what Homer has done to date, but with some of these contracts (Lupul, Jones) and now moves like waiving Ossi instead of Jones, while minor, just dont make any sense......Its a combination of the little moves that win you championships, not just the obvious moves like signing the best dman and forward on the free agent market. Any GM can do that.

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02-27-2009, 03:59 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post

I am beginning to wonder if Stevens/Homer are really the ones to get it done. Did Homer just get lucky with the Forsberg and Zhitnik trades??
OMG are you serious ? ITS OSSI ****ING VAANANAN. MY GOD. He is a bottom pairing dman in the NHL. He's a below average player.

Your doubting Homer because he had to waive a player who A- isnt very good and lost his job. B - Clear space for Briere.

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02-27-2009, 04:00 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I think the only reason Alberts is still here is because he hits more than Vaananen.

I don't like to see Ossi go, but he really wasn't too physical. Like Kimmo, he often used body positioning more than brute physicality.

I think the organization saw Parent and Ossi as 2 extremely similar players and decided to let Ossi go.
I am not saying he ran over anyone, but he was much better than Alberts in my opinion, and actually cheaper if I remember correctly.

Ignoring Jones for a minute, Alberts should have been waived before Ossi. Does Homer/Stevens forget he was on our top defensive pairing most of the year???

They are idiots and I am sick of the blatant favoritism towards certain players...

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02-27-2009, 04:01 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Flyersfan1216 View Post
OMG are you serious ? ITS OSSI ****ING VAANANAN. MY GOD. He is a bottom pairing dman in the NHL. He's a below average player.

Your doubting Homer because he had to waive a player who A- isnt very good and lost his job. B - Clear space for Briere.
If you want to debate something, read and understand my point before you begin taking shots.

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02-27-2009, 04:01 PM
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Take off the orange tinted glasses.

Trade a 4.25 million guy and take not much, if any...salary back?


Good luck with that.
We've been through this one before, no reason to fight the same battle again.

We can agree to disagree and see what happens.

At least if we take back salary for Lupul, we could make sure it was expendable and expired after 09-10.

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02-27-2009, 04:01 PM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Could you not this same principle and use on Vaanenen and Metro being claimed???

Why give a pick when you could claim them at no extra cost other than taking on salary?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth now, c'mon GKJ...I'm a little disapointed.
They were being a buyer in a year they were the worst team in the league. That is rather unconventional. They were likely going to trade him somewhere else as a rental.

And I'm not talking out of both sides of my mouth. The Sabres were close to waiving Biron that season until Miller got hurt for a stretch, and then chose to hold on until they could make a swap, and open up to their trade for Zubrus.

They traded for Alberts when the Bruins were up against it, and were likely going to waive him. The Flyers then traded for him. It's the Flyers talking out both sides of their mouth, not me.

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02-27-2009, 04:02 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Flyersfan1216 View Post
OMG are you serious ? ITS OSSI ****ING VAANANAN. MY GOD. He is a bottom pairing dman in the NHL. He's a below average player.

Your doubting Homer because he had to waive a player who A- isnt very good and lost his job. B - Clear space for Briere.
Agreed on all points .

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02-27-2009, 04:03 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Agreed on all points .
And again....read and understand someone's position before you agree or disagree.

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02-27-2009, 04:03 PM
  #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I am not saying he ran over anyone, but he was much better than Alberts in my opinion, and actually cheaper if I remember correctly.

Ignoring Jones for a minute, Alberts should have been waived before Ossi. Does Homer/Stevens forget he was on our top defensive pairing most of the year???

They are idiots and I am sick of the blatant favoritism towards certain players...
I don't disagree with any of your points really, I'm just trying to explain the organization's philosophy.

Alberts hits guys and is a lot more physical than any of our other d-man. Vaananen is basically a slightly less talented Ryan Parent clone.

I think the organization wanted to keep some physicality on the blue line and decided to let Ossi go instead.

Do I agree with letting go of Ossi over Alberts? Not sure. My issue was more with people crying over the fact that we didn't get compensation which wasn't very likely to happen.

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02-27-2009, 04:06 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Holmgren isn't the Flyers GM to win more Calder Cups.
Huh? Are you complaining about the Syvret trade now?

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02-27-2009, 04:07 PM
  #417
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Hitting people was never Vaananen's game. He would hit occasionally, but his work was more in front of the net and on the boards. If this became news to the Flyers over the course of this season, well then, it only supports my points more.

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02-27-2009, 04:09 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
They were being a buyer in a year they were the worst team in the league. That is rather unconventional. They were likely going to trade him somewhere else as a rental.

And I'm not talking out of both sides of my mouth. The Sabres were close to waiving Biron that season until Miller got hurt for a stretch, and then chose to hold on until they could make a swap, and open up to their trade for Zubrus.

They traded for Alberts when the Bruins were up against it, and were likely going to waive him. The Flyers then traded for him. It's the Flyers talking out both sides of their mouth, not me.
The Flyers are having their balls squeezed by the NHL, and were being watched...simple as that. MSE posted the article, here it is...

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=1...6&postcount=92

We are simply not in a situation where we can sit on Ossi and Metro and wait for a trade to spring up. You know as well as I do...that Holmgren made calls to try and move them. Nothing was there, option #2 kicks in...waive them. Done.

The Flyers traded for a goalie (Biron, UFA) because they had every intention of signing him...and they did just that. Like Jester said, if a team wanted someone enough, they make a move for him. If they don't, they wait for the 'waive' or July 1st. No?

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02-27-2009, 04:09 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
If you want to debate something, read and understand my point before you begin taking shots.
I did. Your upset because Holmgren waived everyones new favorite " Kukkonen " in Vaananan. Hate to break it to you but he isn't very good.

I think the Flyers head coach and GM know who will bring more to their club then you. Alberts is better then Vaananan.

Lupul's deal isnt awful as some make it out to be. 4 M for a 20 goal scorer / 45 point player who will go through the prime of his career and may add more. His new deal doesn't kick in until next year. It has NO BALANCE on the cap this year.


Once again the Jones deal isn't THAT bad. He makes a shade under 3M. He is on the PP and is a solid player. He is everyone's new scapegoat for some reason. Yes he does make mistakes but who doesn't. He is a solid NHL D-man and gets paid like it.

That said Holmgren isnt perfect. The Briere deal is too long and yes he did overpay for Jones. That said the man turned the franchise around and has made numerous great trades. He has my respect and support until he completely ****s up.

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02-27-2009, 04:15 PM
  #420
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I'm not complaining about the Syvret trade, but I find it to be rather laughable to laud a GM for making a trade for a guy who has yet to be called up, and the team finds reasons to keep it that way.

The fact they kept Sbisa who was an undersized 18-year old kid thrown into the deep end of the pool and took the team half the season to figure it out, told me what I needed to know about what they think of Syvret.


And for people who are complaining that me and Jester are armchair GM's and 'what do we know,' well, we both knew that in September, along with a good number of the rest of you.

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02-27-2009, 04:19 PM
  #421
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Opus, if that was the issue, then you demote Kukkonen, and then tell Powe, Parent and Giroux they have to go back to the Phantoms for a couple weeks while the trade deadline straightens itself out. If Powe, Parent and Giroux are professionals, they will understand, and they will understand that it's not a condemnation of their game. It is simply business.

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02-27-2009, 04:24 PM
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Opus, if that was the issue, then you demote Kukkonen, and then tell Powe, Parent and Giroux they have to go back to the Phantoms for a couple weeks while the trade deadline straightens itself out. If Powe, Parent and Giroux are professionals, they will understand, and they will understand that it's not a condemnation of their game. It is simply business.
Would that be before or after Ossi and Metro were waived? Cause then we wouldn't have enough players to play a game. You would waive Kukks and then move 3 players off the roster? Briere takes one, metro and vaan take 2 and now you have a big gap for someone else who you now can't afford?

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02-27-2009, 04:28 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post

They traded for Alberts when the Bruins were up against it, and were likely going to waive him. The Flyers then traded for him. It's the Flyers talking out both sides of their mouth, not me.
didnt that have to do with trading for Alberts would have put them over the 50 contract limit? so they sent the Bruins a ECHL scrub?
yeah I know the sent a 4th rounder as well which was just dumb.

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02-27-2009, 04:29 PM
  #424
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Would that be before or after Ossi and Metro were waived? Cause then we wouldn't have enough players to play a game. You would waive Kukks and then move 3 players off the roster? Briere takes one, metro and vaan take 2 and now you have a big gap for someone else who you now can't afford?
Before the waivers, and Kukkonen didn't play the last game, and if you have to use him as a forward like they have done. Kukkonen isn't on waivers yet either, he was never waived again.

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02-27-2009, 04:30 PM
  #425
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Opus, if that was the issue, then you demote Kukkonen, and then tell Powe, Parent and Giroux they have to go back to the Phantoms for a couple weeks while the trade deadline straightens itself out. If Powe, Parent and Giroux are professionals, they will understand, and they will understand that it's not a condemnation of their game. It is simply business.
Post me the line-up that we would ice with your moves, please and thank you.

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