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Old
03-01-2009, 09:36 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonMTG View Post
I'm interested in this thread because Steve Downie is a hugely entertaining train wreck, and I'd LOVE to see a video of whatever he did this time
I just watched a video of him "fighting" a guy in 2007 in the A. The guy goes down, Downie still tries to hit him even with referees in the way. He goes in the penalty box, punches the glass. Then, as the guy is skating by, he opens the penalty box door and starts yapping.

Kid is a ****ing moron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Sorry, that's exactly the point. Hindsight, is 20/20.


Do yourself a favour...

Look at his (Steve Downie) stats in the OHL, and tell me that he doesn't have talent. For the record, he was 1.23 PPG (if my math is correct) in the O. He was plenty good enough to play for Team Canada as well. To suggest that Steve Downie doesn't/didn't have talent, is simply ridiculous.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=76798


As I mentioned in the post above to GKJ, looking back at picks after the fact, it's VERY EASY to dissect the picks apart.

Who's to say Pavelic isn't the next Lehtonen/Dipietro/Leclaire??? You simply don't know. And no, I'm not suggesting he is. I'm just merely commenting.
I think Downie, given his soft hands and willingness to battle in the corners, could have been a decent 3rd liner, maybe a 2nd liner. I think when he was drafted, the Flyers saw a kid who would do anything to win and would endear himself to the fans. I also think that regardless of how much skill you have, it means jack **** if you can't get your head on straight. Downie never will.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:36 AM
  #27
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When I read the thread title I loled inside. I love the way Downie plays and at the rookie camp this year I thought he looked like one of the best prospects we had on the ice. Of course, that's not the same as actually being able to play on the NHL level. It's been said over and over again; he has the talent to play, but he needs to get his head screwed on right to use it.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:37 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Sorry, that's exactly the point. Hindsight, is 20/20.


Do yourself a favour...

Look at his (Steve Downie) stats in the OHL, and tell me that he doesn't have talent. For the record, he was 1.23 PPG (if my math is correct) in the O. He was plenty good enough to play for Team Canada as well. To suggest that Steve Downie doesn't/didn't have talent, is simply ridiculous.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=76798


As I mentioned in the post above to GKJ, looking back at picks after the fact, it's VERY EASY to dissect the picks apart.

Who's to say Pavelic isn't the next Lehtonen/Dipietro/Leclaire??? You simply don't know. And no, I'm not suggesting he is. I'm just merely commenting.
There are alot of guys who put up points in the Juniors but that doesn't always mean they will be NHL stars. Downie will be a good 3rd liner. Maybe he might be a decent 2nd liner if he gets his head on straight.. Chris Simon put up good numbers in the OHL but he wasn't nothing but a 3rd liner his whole career. You are overrating Downie like he is this guy with vast potential.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:39 AM
  #29
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The thread in the TB forum says Downie slashed a linesman. That's pretty dumb if true.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:42 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
The thread in the TB forum says Downie slashed a linesman. That's pretty dumb if true.
I'd like to see how vicious it was.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:42 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Sorry, that's exactly the point. Hindsight, is 20/20.


Do yourself a favour...

Look at his (Steve Downie) stats in the OHL, and tell me that he doesn't have talent. For the record, he was 1.23 PPG (if my math is correct) in the O. He was plenty good enough to play for Team Canada as well. To suggest that Steve Downie doesn't/didn't have talent, is simply ridiculous.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=76798


As I mentioned in the post above to GKJ, looking back at picks after the fact, it's VERY EASY to dissect the picks apart.

Who's to say Pavelic isn't the next Lehtonen/Dipietro/Leclaire??? You simply don't know. And no, I'm not suggesting he is. I'm just merely commenting.



Well said Opus. In a world where we have "Fantasy armchair GM's," why would anyone want to be an armchair Scout? Coulda, shoulda, woulda...

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:45 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
There are alot of guys who put up points in the Juniors but that doesn't always mean they will be NHL stars. Downie will be a good 3rd liner. Maybe he might be a decent 2nd liner if he gets his head on straight.. Chris Simon put up good numbers in the OHL but he wasn't nothing but a 3rd liner his whole career. You are overrating Downie like he is this guy with vast potential.
I think he is just saying that at the time, with Downie's PPG rate in the OHL, you would think that Downie has enough skill to be a solid offensive contributor everynight in the NHL...theoretically. Unfortunately, theoretically is a word that is taken very lightly all over HFBoards.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:47 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
The thread in the TB forum says Downie slashed a linesman. That's pretty dumb if true.
I want to know what the hell is going through his head, does he honestly think he'll get away with some of these things he does? Is he aware there are camera's at every NHL game, and at most, if not all AHL games?

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03-01-2009, 09:48 AM
  #34
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you cant hit a home run on every pick. its easy to say oh we should've / could've drafted/signed him.

scouting and drafting can really be a crap shoot. would vlasic, pavelec, stasny be an upgrade over downie? no question. however, for instance looking back to the 03 draft if players went the way they were SUPPOSED to go based on current NHL career. shea weber went 49th...

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:49 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Well said Opus. In a world where we have "Fantasy armchair GM's," why would anyone want to be an armchair Scout? Coulda, shoulda, woulda...
Yeah because you have never played that game before. LOL

Some of you on here kill me with this i am right you are wrong elite attitude. There is nothing wrong with having a discussion on the past or what you think about this players abilities. That is why we are on message boards and that is why we are fans. Hindsight i wish we could have taken someone else instead of Downie but i know in my mind its the past and nothing is going to change about that pick.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:49 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
I'd like to see how vicious it was.
I'm curious why you say this. Just to see if he took a full blown whack at an official, or to see if it's because people are making "too big a deal" of it.

I can't tell from your post, but I hope it's not the latter.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:51 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by shamski7 View Post
you cant hit a home run on every pick. its easy to say oh we should've / could've drafted/signed him.

scouting and drafting can really be a crap shoot. would vlasic, pavelec, stasny be an upgrade over downie? no question. however, for instance looking back to the 03 draft if players went the way they were SUPPOSED to go based on current NHL career. shea weber went 49th...
Duh. I don't think anybody is saying that. Who doesn't know the draft is a crap shoot? IMO i didn't like the Downie pick but we got something out of it by trading him for Carle.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:51 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I actually used it to rip a bad draft pick.

Guys we could have had:

Tuukka Rask/Ondrej Pavelec (satisfies our need for a 'blue chip' goaltender according to some)

TJ Oshie (he's good)

Matt Niskanen (we could use him)

Marc-Eduoard Vlasic (we could use him)

Paul Stastny (he's not too bad)
Why don't you ask the Rangers how they feel about Hugh Jessiman?

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:51 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
You could do this to EVERY TEAM, in EVERY DRAFT...years after the fact. Whoopty doo!
You can, but this wasn't your run-of-the-mill bad pick.

Downie was not the best prospect left on the draft board - however, we had him in our crosshairs, arguably, because of the team's legacy.

You can argue that it was a pick based more on attitude than talent - and, I think that's why people are second guessing this pick more than other botched picks.

Because of Philadelphia's history in hockey, we were willing to invest in a kid based on antiquated reasoning. We drafted the sort of player that would've fit in perfectly in a bygone era.

I think that's what gkj meant. It was a franchise-identity pick.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:51 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
There are alot of guys who put up points in the Juniors but that doesn't always mean they will be NHL stars. Downie will be a good 3rd liner. Maybe he might be a decent 2nd liner if he gets his head on straight.. Chris Simon put up good numbers in the OHL but he wasn't nothing but a 3rd liner his whole career. You are overrating Downie like he is this guy with vast potential.
That's right, and based on what they have done, and are doing in the Juniors...is how they slotted and ranked to be drafted. At 1.23 PPG, a kid who could score, a kid who could set up plays, a kid that was solid along the wall...a kid who wasn't afraid to drop the gloves...he was looking pretty good. Like, really ****ing good.

I'm not overrating him at all. I said in my first post in this thread...

Quote:
Having said all that, I couldn't care less at this point that he's not a Flyer. With crap like this...I'm actually relieved he's not. We need the negative publicity like a hole in the head.
As for Simon, look above. It's what they do in the Juniors is how it's dictated how they are drafted. Am I wrong, please correct me if I am.

I thinks it's safe to say, that if the Flyers knew Downie would be this troubled...they would have taken a pass. Of course, you asshats will say otherwise, and that you all saw this coming from a mile away...to which I would, and will respond...why aren't you working in the NHL? You could be making millions.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:55 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
They traded down from 20.



That was before I was interested in anyone more than the Flyers, so I wasn't all that worried about Matt Zultek.

Downie on the other hand, was considered a reach by ALL armchair GMs across the world. I believe the first post on this board upon being drafted was that "Phantoms fans will love him." And was considered by others 'a 3rd round talent at best.' I wasn't the only one.
Other recent Flyers draft picks considered "reaches" at the time:

Claude Giroux
Mike Richards
Jeff Carter

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:55 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
I'd like to see how vicious it was.
Touching an official is going to get your ass in a sling in every league on the planet. It's unbelievably stupid. But I suspect if it was a tap, nothing would have come from it.

I love Downie when he wants to be a player. There are very few bigger competitors, and we all saw what he's capable of doing when he's focused. But this kind of crap has to stop. There is no excuse for slashing a linesman or ref. None.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:56 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by salzy View Post
Other recent Flyers draft picks considered "reaches" at the time:

Claude Giroux
Mike Richards
Jeff Carter
Bingo.

Nice to see you around here, Salzy!

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:57 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
As for Simon, look above. It's what they do in the Juniors is how it's dictated how they are drafted. Am I wrong, please correct me if I am.

I thinks it's safe to say, that if the Flyers knew Downie would be this troubled...they would have taken a pass. Of course, you asshats will say otherwise, and that you all saw this coming from a mile away...to which I would, and will respond...why aren't you working in the NHL? You could be making millions.


No what stats they put up in the juniors doesn't always mean they will get drafted high. If that was the case, Corey Locke would be a high first round draft pick for putting up good numbers in the OHL but instead he gets picked in the 4th round. Scouts look at more than just numbers.

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03-01-2009, 09:59 AM
  #45
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Linesman probably said something about his eye. That always seemed to set him off.

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03-01-2009, 10:01 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Sorry, that's exactly the point. Hindsight, is 20/20.


Do yourself a favour...

Look at his (Steve Downie) stats in the OHL, and tell me that he doesn't have talent. For the record, he was 1.23 PPG (if my math is correct) in the O. He was plenty good enough to play for Team Canada as well. To suggest that Steve Downie doesn't/didn't have talent, is simply ridiculous.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=76798


As I mentioned in the post above to GKJ, looking back at picks after the fact, it's VERY EASY to dissect the picks apart.

Who's to say Pavelic isn't the next Lehtonen/Dipietro/Leclaire??? You simply don't know. And no, I'm not suggesting he is. I'm just merely commenting.
Well the leading scorer in OHL history's last name is Sakic.

Brian Sakic.


Can't look at numbers and determine that because he has talent, that he has the tools.

Yes hindsight is 20/20, but there was also a lot of guys we passed on who were considered much more safer picks. There was no reason for the Flyers to pass on Rask in that draft, as he was considered by a lot (he and Cogliano) to be considered BPA. That's the beauty of hindsight though, is that sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salzy View Post
Other recent Flyers draft picks considered "reaches" at the time:

Claude Giroux
Mike Richards
Jeff Carter
What? Carter was projected to go 10-20, Richards and Giroux were considered late 1st-early 2nd. They were not reaches. Richards was taken a little higher, but not like Downie was. Downie was considered a very late 2nd, mostly 3rd round talent by more people than who thought Richards was.

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Old
03-01-2009, 10:07 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
No what stats they put up in the juniors doesn't always mean they will get drafted high. If that was the case, Corey Locke would be a high first round draft pick for putting up good numbers in the OHL but instead he gets picked in the 4th round. Scouts look at more than just numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Well the leading scorer in OHL history's last name is Sakic.

Brian Sakic.

Can't look at numbers and determine that because he has talent, that he has the tools.

When I say what they do, I don't mean just literally that show up on the scoresheet.

Of course they look at everything, and as they should, but the number don't hurt.

This I would hazard to guess...explains why Matt ****ing Zultek was picked ahead of Brenden Morrow.

For anybody to suggest that Downie wasn't a solid prospect, speak volumes.

I'd just like to say this - While some of you American posters have chimed in on us Canadian posters who haven't (and don't really, for the most part) seen JVR all that much. All I can say is this, how many of you watched Downie in the OHL?

The kid was a solid prospect. Period.

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Old
03-01-2009, 10:18 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Linesman probably said something about his eye. That always seemed to set him off.
You mean his ear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
This I would hazard to guess...explains why Matt ****ing Zultek was picked ahead of Brenden Morrow.
I think we should name the next Obsequious thread, "Matt ****ing Zultek".

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Old
03-01-2009, 10:20 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Well the leading scorer in OHL history's last name is Sakic.

Brian Sakic.


Can't look at numbers and determine that because he has talent, that he has the tools.

Yes hindsight is 20/20, but there was also a lot of guys we passed on who were considered much more safer picks. There was no reason for the Flyers to pass on Rask in that draft, as he was considered by a lot (he and Cogliano) to be considered BPA. That's the beauty of hindsight though, is that sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong.



What? Carter was projected to go 10-20, Richards and Giroux were considered late 1st-early 2nd. They were not reaches. Richards was taken a little higher, but not like Downie was. Downie was considered a very late 2nd, mostly 3rd round talent by more people than who thought Richards was.



Richards may very well have gone to Calgary if Phaneuf wasn't there. Quite sure I remember hearing it from a good friend of Dion's and on draft day.

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Old
03-01-2009, 10:21 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Jules801 View Post
I think we should name the next Obsequious thread, "Matt ****ing Zultek".
C'mon, seriously...who the **** is Matt ****ing Zultek!?!?!?

I'm done with this thread, it's going nowhere positive.

Parting thoughts. Steve Downie is capable of playing very good hockey. He's a roll player and has the heart of the lion. He'll do anything for his teammates and wants nothing more than to win. It's thi very passion, IMO, that makes him the fierce competitor that we all know he is. Unfortunately for himself, he doesn't know when to pull it back...and lacks some discipline.

Out~




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