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Old
03-01-2009, 12:09 PM
  #76
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Youtube or it didnt happen!

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03-01-2009, 12:12 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
Asset management goes further than players. I'd still like to have given Eminger more than 12 games, and would thoroughly enjoy the cap space right now.
Yeah that's definitely a solid argument. I personally don't think Eminger is really designed to succeed with firewagon hockey which requires quick thinking and strong hockey smarts, but I can certainly respect that opinion.

I still think Carle might have a higher ceiling though and be more tailored to this team's need, it's nice to have an offensive d-man who can still play a good shift in his own zone.

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03-01-2009, 12:15 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
Because it was. Drafting Downie was dumb but trading him was a great move. Look at Downie always getting into trouble always causing controversy. You can't sit here and say drafting Downie was a good move. Look at his character problems. As soon as he got into some trouble when he was apart of this organization i knew his days were numbered. How is that so hard to understand??? Its no question he has some talent but he is a headcase.


Look at Downie captaining Team Canada to a gold medal. I would imagine character is an issue when they select Team Canada. I know what you're getting at and yes...Downie was a risky pick but his skillset was that of a very good playmaker that could win battles along the wall while adding physicality. He was a prototypical Flyer who was involved in a hazing incident. I can't really take your headcase theory seriously until you show credentials that you can diagnose such things on a professional level. This would make you an "arm-chair Dr."
Sorry, not meaning to come off like an idiot but there were pros and cons to drafting Downie as well as the other guys mentioned. Some people agreed, some didn't and some were just indifferent because they hadn't seen enough of them. I fall into the last group as I usually do when it comes to the draft. Unless I've really seen a lot of said player.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:17 PM
  #79
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Hope he's done in professional hockey. He just doesn't have the mental makeup, and sooner or later he'll do something to end up in court.

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03-01-2009, 12:18 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Look at Downie captaining Team Canada to a gold medal. I would imagine character is an issue when they select Team Canada. I know what you're getting at and yes...Downie was a risky pick but his skillset was that of a very good playmaker that could win battles along the wall while adding physicality. He was a prototypical Flyer who was involved in a hazing incident. I can't really take your headcase theory seriously until you show credentials that you can diagnose such things on a professional level. This would make you an "arm-chair Dr."
Sorry, not meaning to come off like an idiot but there were pros and cons to drafting Downie as well as the other guys mentioned. Some people agreed, some didn't and some were just indifferent because they hadn't seen enough of them. I fall into the last group as I usually do when it comes to the draft. Unless I've really seen a lot of said player.

agreed.he turned out to be a much better pick then joni was for us in terms of their times here.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:19 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
GKJ...

I mean, it wasn't the greatest pick in hindsight, but hindsight is 20/20 and I mean, they ended up trading him for an asset that's helped us a lot.

Not like we picked an Alexandre Daigle 1st overall.
For a team that is rumored to have Bouwmeester (possibly others) aspirations, one may think that the Flyers they can do better than Carle as well - depending on which rumors who believe or do not believe.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:20 PM
  #82
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For anyone that wants the other side of the story, credit the lightning board for posting this: http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/...spends-do.html

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:24 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Look at Downie captaining Team Canada to a gold medal. I would imagine character is an issue when they select Team Canada. I know what you're getting at and yes...Downie was a risky pick but his skillset was that of a very good playmaker that could win battles along the wall while adding physicality. He was a prototypical Flyer who was involved in a hazing incident. I can't really take your headcase theory seriously until you show credentials that you can diagnose such things on a professional level. This would make you an "arm-chair Dr."
Sorry, not meaning to come off like an idiot but there were pros and cons to drafting Downie as well as the other guys mentioned. Some people agreed, some didn't and some were just indifferent because they hadn't seen enough of them. I fall into the last group as I usually do when it comes to the draft. Unless I've really seen a lot of said player.
When i am saying headcase i am not saying the guy has anxiety attacks or he is schizophrenic. I am saying he doesn't use his brain or has common sense when he is slashing referees. But if you think it makes me an armchair doctor then okay. I mean honestly what is your deal with trying to call out someones credibility? You come off as quite a pompous ass when you do that. Downie is his own worst enemy.

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03-01-2009, 12:26 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
For a team that is rumored to have Bouwmeester (possibly others) aspirations, one may think that the Flyers they can do better than Carle as well - depending on which rumors who believe or do not believe.
Meh, J-Bouw is completely unfeasible from the cap standpoint unless we dump Carle, Lupul, and Coburn.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:27 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by flyersfan75 View Post
For anyone that wants the other side of the story, credit the lightning board for posting this: http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/...spends-do.html
I really hope this is true.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:27 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Anybody else want to keep crying about the Carle deal and "bad asset management?"

I mean, there should be like 15 people apologizing right now considering all the Downie love that was shown on here.

Yet another example that Holmgren knows what he's doing and most people on HF don't.

Anyways, I wish Downie all the best, but the kid seriously needs to learn how to control himself.
Considering the addition of Carle is the exact reason we're in cap hell right now, I'm not apologizing for anything.

I've always been a fan of Steve, but this is too much, even for me.

I still don't see Carle doing much to make me think Eminger couldn't be doing exactly the same but for much less money.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:28 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan75 View Post
For anyone that wants the other side of the story, credit the lightning board for posting this: http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/...spends-do.html
If that's how it went down, then this is a "suspension because of your name". If it's determined that he intentionally slashed an official, then he's earned the suspension.

Two very different views... the truth is in there somewhere.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:29 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Richards may very well have gone to Calgary if Phaneuf wasn't there. Quite sure I remember hearing it from a good friend of Dion's and on draft day.
It was reported by one of the talking heads at the draft, I remember. Richards would have been Calgary's pick if Phaneuf was off the board.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:29 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan75 View Post
For anyone that wants the other side of the story, credit the lightning board for posting this: http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/...spends-do.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
I really hope this is true.
If THIS is true, then my apologies to Sonny, as it would be an over-reaction.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:31 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Considering the addition of Carle is the exact reason we're in cap hell right now, I'm not apologizing for anything.

I've always been a fan of Steve, but this is too much, even for me.

I still don't see Carle doing much to make me think Eminger couldn't be doing exactly the same but for much less money.
It's really funny how this board used to constantly, constantly complain about the need for a puckmoving D-man and now that we have a good one, everyone has to start complaining about cap hell.

I bet that if we had traded for Kaberle, a lot of these "cap hell" complaints would disappear. Does anyone even realize that Bouwmeester would make it even worse?

This team can get to the POs with the current cap situation and in the POs, the cap disappears and we're going to be icing an extremely competitive team.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:32 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
If that's how it went down, then this is a "suspension because of your name". If it's determined that he intentionally slashed an official, then he's earned the suspension.

Two very different views... the truth is in there somewhere.
That's interesting and not entirely surprising. You and I know how blown out of proportion these things get when he's involved.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:34 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
That's interesting and not entirely surprising. You and I know how blown out of proportion these things get when he's involved.
Absolutely.

It's a tough one. We've both seen Downie pull some crap that leaves us shaking our heads in amazement, and we've seen it from the other side.

I really hope the Tampa report is true.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:35 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
Absolutely.

It's a tough one. We've both seen Downie pull some crap that leaves us shaking our heads in amazement, and we've seen it from the other side.

I really hope the Tampa report is true.
Hopefully. He just needs to play hockey and stay out of the ********.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:37 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
It's really funny how this board used to constantly, constantly complain about the need for a puckmoving D-man and now that we have a good one, everyone has to start complaining about cap hell.

I bet that if we had traded for Kaberle, a lot of these "cap hell" complaints would disappear. Does anyone even realize that Bouwmeester would make it even worse?

This team can get to the POs with the current cap situation and in the POs, the cap disappears and we're going to be icing an extremely competitive team.
The more I think about it, the more I realize the Bouwmeester thing is a pipe dream. Our cap is a mess and subtracting two players for one is going to kill our depth even more than it's already killed.

But the fact is we traded $1M Eminger for $3.5M Carle when we were already right up against the cap - saved only by LTIR.

For what it's worth, Eminger has produced more than Carle on a team that's scored 42 less goals than us. So yeah, we finally got that puck moving defenseman that isn't living up to his contract - the contract that ****ed our cap for the year.

Is Carle a terrible player? No. So don't waste your breath telling me I'm wrong about that. I know you love him. But the trade for Carle's contract really hurt this team when you consider the guy he was traded for makes 1/3rd the money and produces more.

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:41 PM
  #95
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I dunno....never seen an official overreact before. Especially in regards to Downie. I wonder if all the back patting continues? Stay tuned.....

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Old
03-01-2009, 12:41 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Meh, J-Bouw is completely unfeasible from the cap standpoint unless we dump Carle, Lupul, and Coburn.
They would have to open up ~1.14M in cap space if they traded for him today.

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03-01-2009, 12:51 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
The more I think about it, the more I realize the Bouwmeester thing is a pipe dream. Our cap is a mess and subtracting two players for one is going to kill our depth even more than it's already killed.

But the fact is we traded $1M Eminger for $3.5M Carle when we were already right up against the cap - saved only by LTIR.

For what it's worth, Eminger has produced more than Carle on a team that's scored 42 less goals than us. So yeah, we finally got that puck moving defenseman that isn't living up to his contract - the contract that ****ed our cap for the year.

Is Carle a terrible player? No. So don't waste your breath telling me I'm wrong about that. I know you love him. But the trade for Carle's contract really hurt this team when you consider the guy he was traded for makes 1/3rd the money and produces more.
Eminger also produces more than Timonen at even strength. I mean, this isn't hard to understand. Our defensemen do not score many ES points.

It's not about production for me as well. Carle has given us 2 solid pairings. Maybe Eminger would have done that, maybe he wouldn't have, regardless, may not have done it this year. I think Carle is definitely a strong upgrade for Eminger and worth the extra 2.5 of cap hit when you consider that we have Sbisa, Marshall, Bourdon, and Bodrov in the system who can come in on entry level contracts.

Also something to consider is that Eminger is on a 1.2 million deal after playing 20 games with 2 points last year. He's an RFA, but I bet he'll still end up making upwards of 2 million next year.

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Old
03-01-2009, 01:03 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I actually used it to rip a bad draft pick.

Guys we could have had:

Tuukka Rask/Ondrej Pavelec (satisfies our need for a 'blue chip' goaltender according to some)

TJ Oshie (he's good)

Matt Niskanen (we could use him)

Marc-Eduoard Vlasic (we could use him)

Paul Stastny (he's not too bad)
Yep, and how many other drafts could we go back and say we could have had someone better............Its pointless and irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
The more I think about it, the more I realize the Bouwmeester thing is a pipe dream. Our cap is a mess and subtracting two players for one is going to kill our depth even more than it's already killed.

But the fact is we traded $1M Eminger for $3.5M Carle when we were already right up against the cap - saved only by LTIR.

For what it's worth, Eminger has produced more than Carle on a team that's scored 42 less goals than us. So yeah, we finally got that puck moving defenseman that isn't living up to his contract - the contract that ****ed our cap for the year.

Is Carle a terrible player? No. So don't waste your breath telling me I'm wrong about that. I know you love him. But the trade for Carle's contract really hurt this team when you consider the guy he was traded for makes 1/3rd the money and produces more.
I agree completely. Eminger was never given a chance here. You know why???? Cause he is a player that needed to be coached and we have a coach here that doesnt know how to coach.

Probably the reason Coburn has regressed as well, not having Hatcher there with him or Timonen on the ice with him.

Carle has a lot of upside, I wont take that away from him....but at this time he is no where near worth the $3.5 million he is getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Eminger also produces more than Timonen at even strength. I mean, this isn't hard to understand. Our defensemen do not score many ES points.

It's not about production for me as well. Carle has given us 2 solid pairings. Maybe Eminger would have done that, maybe he wouldn't have, regardless, may not have done it this year. I think Carle is definitely a strong upgrade for Eminger and worth the extra 2.5 of cap hit when you consider that we have Sbisa, Marshall, Bourdon, and Bodrov in the system who can come in on entry level contracts.

Also something to consider is that Eminger is on a 1.2 million deal after playing 20 games with 2 points last year. He's an RFA, but I bet he'll still end up making upwards of 2 million next year.
Flyhigh...I know you are a fan of Carle and that is fine....but trying to compare Eminger to Timonen isnt going to convince anyone that you might have a point on Carle.....

Our team doesnt score at even strength, MOST of us understand that.....However, it isnt just the production that is missing from Carle, he looks like a dope out there half the time. He is a slight upgrade on Jones right now and that isnt saying much


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Old
03-01-2009, 01:08 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Our team doesnt score at even strength, MOST of us understand that.....However, it isnt just the production that is missing from Carle, he looks like a dope out there half the time. He is a slight upgrade on Jones right now and that isnt saying much
I know we get along most of the time, but are you kidding? Carle has been our 2nd most consistent defenseman since the trade without a doubt. I mean, did you catch the game against MTL? He played a whale of a game, was all over the ice, led several offensive rushes, and made a couple nice defensive plays.

This team has gotten a lot better since he came, you can argue that's also due to improved goaltending/offense, but I also think Carle deserves some credit, he's done very well and is more than "slight upgrade" on Jones.

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03-01-2009, 01:11 PM
  #100
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Carle did have a very good game vs. Montreal, there are also games where he makes dumb plays like the tape-to-tape pass to Malkin last week. He has his moments, he is far less consistent than you're painting him to be. When it comes down to it, I'll take him over Jones, Eminger, Kukkonen, etc, but we can still do better.

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