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A. Kostitsyn Stats (w/ regards to pairings)

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Old
02-24-2009, 09:43 PM
  #76
holyhabs87
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
And again, the problem is Kostitsyn's.

Like that break he had where he stopped, spun and tried to pass to Kovalev. Even Kovalev seemed confused.

I agree that Kostitsyn needs off that line, but I don't think it's fair to lay the blame on Kovalev.
blame carbo

we can say kovy holds the puck too much or a-kost is not as agressive playing with kovy...

at the end of the day, one person makes the decision on who plays with who.

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02-24-2009, 10:21 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
The only lines AKost has been on that don't look good are when he played with 4th line scrubs, or when he plays with Kovalev this year. And tell me who has Kovalev looked good with this year? Plekanec? The odd game. Koivu?... nope. Lang? nope. Tanguay? nope. etc etc
And weirdly, he's our top scoring forward.

I mean, it's obvious when you watch. Kostitsyn doesn't play the same when Kovalev is on the ice. The problem lies between his ears exclusively. Plekanec was guilty of it too, but I think the time away cleared his head as well. He's playing like himself and they're all better for it. Kostitsyn, who cannot be blamed for being a touch out of it, isn't.

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02-24-2009, 10:29 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
blame carbo

we can say kovy holds the puck too much or a-kost is not as agressive playing with kovy...

at the end of the day, one person makes the decision on who plays with who.
This. It's getting frustrating watching Carbo try to force a square peg into the round hole by grardually wearing down the corners. When you finally get players getting multi-point nights playing together, you'd think the obvious course would be to keep them together. But no... the corners will wear off that square peg before the playoffs... honest.

I mean, if there is potential for them to regain the "magic", shouldn't Carbo have been able to coach them towards that by the end of 60 games? Or is he confused as well and just keeps sending them out there hoping they'll figure it out by themselves?

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02-25-2009, 09:37 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
blame carbo

we can say kovy holds the puck too much or a-kost is not as agressive playing with kovy...

at the end of the day, one person makes the decision on who plays with who.
It's ****ing Kovalev that decides if he plays or not!

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02-25-2009, 09:40 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
It's ****ing Kovalev that decides if he plays or not!
You took what you quoted out of context.

Kovalev obviously does not decide who plays with who..

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02-25-2009, 09:50 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
You took what you quoted out of context.

Kovalev obviously does not decide who plays with who..
No, I didn't take it out of context. You misunderstood.

Last year, Kovalev was playing with Plekanec and Kostitsyn and they took over as the first line. Why? Because Kovalev decided to get his sorry ass in gear and that he was going to work. It's not working this year why? I'll let you fill in the blanks...

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02-26-2009, 01:45 PM
  #82
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Since the stats I posted were biased in Andrei's favor, here are Tomas' and Alex's stats. Thank god I saved my template from Andrei's stats.

TOMAS PLEKANEC

Scoring Per Trio
A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev: 27GP, 8-11-19, -2, 61 shots
Pacioretty - Plekanec - A. Kostitsyn: 2GP, 3-1-4, +2, 10 shots
Pacioretty - Plekanec - Kovalev: 10GP, 2-2-4, -2, 26 shots
Kovalev - Plekanec - Dandenault: 1GP, 0-2-2, Even, 1 shot
S. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev: 4GP, 1-0-1, Even, 18 shots
Tanguay - Plekanec - Kostopoulos: 3GP, 1-0-1, +2, 6 shots
Latendresse - Plekanec - A. Kostitsyn: 2GP, 1-0-1, Even, 7 shots
Higgins - Plekanec - Kostopoulos: 3GP, 0-0-0, Even, 7 shots
Latendresse - Plekanec - S. Kostitsyn: 3GP, 0-0-0, Even, 11 shots
Higgins - Plekanec - Kovalev: 2GP, 0-0-0, Even, 2 shots
Bégin - Plekanec - Kostopoulos: 1GP, 0-0-0, -1, 1 shot
Bégin - Plekanec - S. Kostitsyn: 1GP, 0-0-0, Even, 5 shots
S. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kostopoulos: 1GP, 0-0-0, Even, 3 shots

Scoring When Paired With...
Kovalev: 44GP, 11-15-26, -4, 108 shots
A. Kostitsyn: 31GP, 12-12-24, Even, 78 shots
Pacioretty: 12GP, 5-3-8, Even, 36 shots
Dandenault: 1GP, 0-2-2, Even, 1 shot
S. Kostitsyn: 9GP, 1-0-1, Even, 37 shots
Kostopoulos: 7GP, 1-0-1, +1, 17 shots
Latendresse: 5GP, 1-0-1, Even, 18 shots
Tanguay: 3GP, 1-0-1, +2, 6 shots
Higgins: 4GP, 0-0-0, Even, 9 shots
Bégin: 2GP, 0-0-0, -1, 6 shots

--------

ALEX KOVALEV

Scoring Per Trio
A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev: 27GP, 8-14-22, 2, 72 shots
Pacioretty - Plekanec - Kovalev: 10GP, 4-2-6, Even, 27 shots
Tanguay - Lang - Kovalev: 4GP, 1-3-4, Even, 12 shots
S. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev: 4GP, 1-3-4, -1, 16 shots
Higgins - Lang - Kovalev: 3GP, 0-3-3, 2, 7 shots
Tanguay - Koivu - Kovalev: 2GP, 0-1-1, Even, 7 shots
Higgins - Plekanec - Kovalev: 2GP, 0-1-1, -1, 5 shots
Kovalev - Plekanec - Dandenault: 1GP, 0-1-1, -2, 2 shots
A. Kostitsyn - Lang - Kovalev: 1GP, 0-1-1, -1, 2 shots
Kovalev - Koivu - Kostopoulos: 2GP, 0-0-0, Even, 0 shots
Bégin - Lang - Kovalev: 1GP, 0-0-0, -1, 0 shots
S. Kostitsyn - Lang - Kovalev: 1GP, 0-0-0, -1, 1 shot
Latendresse - Lang - Kovalev: 1GP, 0-0-0, Even, 3 shots

Scoring When Paired With...
Plekanec: 44GP, 13-21-34, -2, 122 shots
A. Kostitsyn: 28GP, 8-15-23, 1, 74 shots
Lang: 11GP, 1-7-8, -1, 25 shots
Pacioretty: 10GP, 4-2-6, Even, 27 shots
Tanguay: 6GP, 1-4-5, Even, 19 shots
S. Kostitsyn: 5GP, 1-3-4, -2, 17 shots
Higgins: 5GP, 0-4-4, 1, 12 shots
Koivu: 4GP, 0-1-1, Even, 7 shots
Dandenault: 1GP, 0-1-1, -2, 2 shots
Kostopoulos: 2GP, 0-0-0, Even, 0 shots
Bégin: 1GP, 0-0-0, -1, 0 shots
Latendresse: 1GP, 0-0-0, Even, 3 shots

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03-02-2009, 03:36 AM
  #83
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Just to update:

As of today Kostitsyn now has 9 points in 29GP with Kovalev.

29 points in 30GP without Kovalev

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03-02-2009, 04:59 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre2112 View Post
Just to update:

As of today Kostitsyn now has 9 points in 29GP with Kovalev.

29 points in 30GP without Kovalev
I hate to be the optimist but there is still time for him to even these stats out. People shouldn't worry too much. All it'll take is a 20 point game for him against Buffalo and he's all level. Simple

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03-02-2009, 08:41 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre2112 View Post
Just to update:

As of today Kostitsyn now has 9 points in 29GP with Kovalev.

29 points in 30GP without Kovalev
It should be 9 in 30 with, and 29 in 29 without -- he played the majority of the last three games with Kovalev (and Plekanec).

http://www.cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/icetime61.html - 17:22 for KPK (team leader)
http://www.cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/icetime62.html - 10:07 for KPK (team leader)
http://www.cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/icetime63.html - 14:49 for KPK (team leader)

I'm in a rush right now to go to school, so I'll change the numbers later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
I hate to be the optimist but there is still time for him to even these stats out. People shouldn't worry too much. All it'll take is a 20 point game for him against Buffalo and he's all level. Simple
Here's hoping

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03-02-2009, 09:15 AM
  #86
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Someone kindly sent me this... don't shoot the messenger:


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03-02-2009, 09:25 AM
  #87
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Someone kindly sent me this... don't shoot the messenger:

beautiful why would you be shot!

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03-02-2009, 09:51 AM
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beautiful why would you be shot!
A few here seem to be upset when I say anything with any negative tone towards Kovalev. I'm just trying to be good until March 4th. Had to bite my lips a couple of times already...

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03-02-2009, 10:29 AM
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beautiful why would you be shot!
Dude, as if you don't know?

Throughout human history, many have been shot for telling the truth

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03-02-2009, 11:19 AM
  #90
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FREE Andrei!!

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03-02-2009, 11:25 AM
  #91
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Yikes.. a lot worse than I thought. How about;

Tanguay - Koivu - D'Agostini
Pacioretty - Plekanec - Kovalev
S. Kostitsyn - Higgins - A. Kostitsyn
Latendresse - Lapierre - Kostopoulos
Metropolit, Laraque

I know Higgins isn't a centre.. but with him and S. Kost there to take faceoffs, we may be able to win 50%.

Also, Gainey told Sergei that he'd be recalled (even though he's not scoring in the AHL) shortly.. He plays best with his brother.. maybe they a line like that will be similar to the Sedin/Sedin/Burrows line.

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03-02-2009, 11:59 AM
  #92
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After I get home tonight, I'm going to try and compile the W-L stats of Andrei with and without Kovalev. I saw it floating around for awhile that, if putting Andrei with Alex leads to wins, why break it up? And it hard to disagree with that -- I much prefer a winning combination than a losing one, even if it forces a player into a somewhat undesirable role. It would be interesting to see... might be able to get to it now, since I have a break.

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03-02-2009, 12:02 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by redmachine54 View Post
After I get home tonight, I'm going to try and compile the W-L stats of Andrei with and without Kovalev. I saw it floating around for awhile that, if putting Andrei with Alex leads to wins, why break it up? And it hard to disagree with that -- I much prefer a winning combination than a losing one, even if it forces a player into a somewhat undesirable role. It would be interesting to see... might be able to get to it now, since I have a break.
i posted a while ago that we are 16-4-2 when a-kost gets 1 point. not sure about the exat numbers when he is with/away from kovy

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03-02-2009, 12:03 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redmachine54 View Post
After I get home tonight, I'm going to try and compile the W-L stats of Andrei with and without Kovalev. I saw it floating around for awhile that, if putting Andrei with Alex leads to wins, why break it up? And it hard to disagree with that -- I much prefer a winning combination than a losing one, even if it forces a player into a somewhat undesirable role. It would be interesting to see... might be able to get to it now, since I have a break.
Another idea would be the total number of "goals for" by the Habs depending on variables.

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03-02-2009, 12:09 PM
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i think its interesting to note that out of andrei's 22 goals..kovalev has only assisted on 2 of them..1 being a 2nd assist

his only real assist to andrei was that nice tic-tac-toe play vs pittsburgh when we won 4-2 at home

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03-02-2009, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Another idea would be the total number of "goals for" by the Habs depending on variables.
Yeah, I just did a quick run through of the records (I have other work to do right now ), and while the results weren't favoring a Kovalev-Kostitsyn break-up, it seemed the goal spread was nicely shaped.

Anyway, here's a telling stat:

When paired with Kovalev, through 30 games, Andrei has 9 points, and the team has an 18-8-4 record.
When not paired with Kovalev, through 29 games, Andrei has 29 points, and the team has a 13-14-4 record.

Interpret these how you will. I might be off a win here or there, since I did a quick run through the standings, but those are either the actual stats or very close to the actual stats. Quite telling.

I'll probably go into a little more depth with regards to W-L with specific lines, but I think it's generally set that the KPK line will have the best record. The AKost-Lang-SKost line doesn't look too good record-wise, IIRC.

Sorry guys, I'm not on March break anymore

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03-02-2009, 12:23 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by redmachine54 View Post
Yeah, I just did a quick run through of the records (I have other work to do right now ), and while the results weren't favoring a Kovalev-Kostitsyn break-up, it seemed the goal spread was nicely shaped.

Anyway, here's a telling stat:

When paired with Kovalev, through 30 games, Andrei has 9 points, and the team has an 18-8-4 record.
When not paired with Kovalev, through 29 games, Andrei has 29 points, and the team has a 13-14-4 record.

Interpret these how you will. I might be off a win here or there, since I did a quick run through the standings, but those are either the actual stats or very close to the actual stats. Quite telling.

I'll probably go into a little more depth with regards to W-L with specific lines, but I think it's generally set that the KPK line will have the best record. The AKost-Lang-SKost line doesn't look too good record-wise, IIRC.

Sorry guys, I'm not on March break anymore
The Win/Loss stats is problematic because one reason Carbonneau seems to have separated Kovalev and Kost was as a last resort when the team was getting critically depleted by injury, and one reason he seems to bring them back together is when the team is/becomes healthy.


Last edited by Erik Estrada: 03-02-2009 at 12:43 PM.
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03-02-2009, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by redmachine54 View Post
Yeah, I just did a quick run through of the records (I have other work to do right now ), and while the results weren't favoring a Kovalev-Kostitsyn break-up, it seemed the goal spread was nicely shaped.

Anyway, here's a telling stat:

When paired with Kovalev, through 30 games, Andrei has 9 points, and the team has an 18-8-4 record.
When not paired with Kovalev, through 29 games, Andrei has 29 points, and the team has a 13-14-4 record.


Interpret these how you will. I might be off a win here or there, since I did a quick run through the standings, but those are either the actual stats or very close to the actual stats. Quite telling.

I'll probably go into a little more depth with regards to W-L with specific lines, but I think it's generally set that the KPK line will have the best record. The AKost-Lang-SKost line doesn't look too good record-wise, IIRC.

Sorry guys, I'm not on March break anymore
how does that make sense considering we are 16-4-3 when a-kost scores 1 point this year..and a-kost scores most of his points AWAY from kovy

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03-02-2009, 12:37 PM
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how does that make sense considering we are 16-4-3 when a-kost scores 1 point this year..and a-kost scores most of his points AWAY from kovy
A quick check shows Andrei is 17-5-2 when he scores a point; however, a key issue here is that we are using a very selective means of determining a record (where Andrei records a point). The team's record isn't abyssmal when they aren't paired, so it would make perfect sense if Andrei has a winning record when he records a point, but not so much when he's away from Kovalev. Could be that 6 of his wins were with Kovalev, 11 away; I'll look into it in more detail later, but it's definitely possible.

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03-02-2009, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by redmachine54 View Post
A quick check shows Andrei is 17-5-2 when he scores a point; however, a key issue here is that we are using a very selective means of determining a record (where Andrei records a point). The team's record isn't abyssmal when they aren't paired, so it would make perfect sense if Andrei has a winning record when he records a point, but not so much when he's away from Kovalev. Could be that 6 of his wins were with Kovalev, 11 away; I'll look into it in more detail later, but it's definitely possible.
ya thats true..

but just looking at rough numbers

out of andrei's 22 goals..kovy has assisted on only 2 of them

out of kovy's 15 goals...andrei has only assisted on 2 of them

just goes to show how they are two very simliar players who dont gell together.

also with talks about our win/losses..we can look at our current 4 game win streak. the line was placed together but halak was more of a reason why we won them. kovy was also a bigger factor than a-kost in these games scoring 2 goals and 5 assists. a-kost had 0 points.

we can also take a look at when this trio started the season together and the habs started 8-2-2. kovalev had 5 goals and 7 assists(4 pts in 1 game) while andrei had 1 goals and 3 assists. but most of the talk during this streak was about the great play of the koivu/tanguay duo. therefore, we are once again shown that kovy's production has very little to do with a-kost.

our record in these 16 games (albeit a small sample size but i remember the ATAK line was put together in these games which is why i am using it as an example) is 12-2-2. so although we are winning with this line..it is more to do with other important factors like halak playing out of his mind, or very strong play from other top players and then kovy also producing and playing very well. it is safe to say a-kost had a very small impact on these games.

the 17-5-2 record when a-kost scores a point is very vague and as you say some could be when playing with kovy. we all know he played with kovy when he scored all 3 goals against pittsburgh where plekanec set 2 of them up and the 3rd goal was a bullet past fleury. his goal vs st.louis came in another win on the kovy line but once again it was when he went coast to coast. basically, a-kost is to go to guy in these instances and he is the one in control of the puck.

andrei has basically become the player that needs to go check a player on the boards to get puck now. for instance, in the ottawa game last saturday..it was andrei that checked a guy to force a turnover and passed it to kovy who set up plek for a goal...this is a job pacioretty can do and was doing succesfully when playing with plek and kovy. during this time andrei was with his bro and lang and we were not only winning but we had scored something like 22 goals in 4 games.

it all shows poor player management and not being able to utilize our assets correctly.

if a-kost's play has minimal effect on kovy's production, but, from what the numbers suggest, a-kost's production is hurt by playing with kovy, does it not seem simple as to what should happen?


Last edited by holyhabs87: 03-02-2009 at 01:32 PM.
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