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Goaltending Prospects

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Old
03-01-2009, 03:40 PM
  #76
Hi-wayman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backs4mvp View Post


You're kidding yourself. Nobody trades for goalie prospects because if they wanted them, they'd draft 'em. G prospects have alot more value to the team they're currently with, especially if the current goalies future is uncertain.

Lundqvist unsigned.. Montoya is untouchable.. Lundqvist signed, Montoya is traded for scraps.

Vancouver, Luongo's future is uncertain, Schneider doesn't get traded for a top 8-12 pick.. If/when Luongo re-signs.. Schneider is likely gone for a 2nd rounder(or later) or part of a smaller deal.



Do you know how foolish that sounds. If the bruins were looking to trade Rask.. he's not that valuable to them.. now is he?
I could see Gillis trading Schneider even this week. To base decisions to improve the team on posibilities that a player may not sign with the team in the future likely means it's the GM that won't be there in the future.

The idea that Luongo won't re-sign with the Canucks was postulated by a couple of Vancouver sports radio hosts trying to promote something to talk about and it created enough of a stir that other sports writers and HF fans started to believe it.
Luongo has given no indication he is unhappy in Vancouver or that he won't re-sign if offered a contract similar to what he has now. Schneider is one of the better goalie prospects. You are right that most goalie prospect would be lucky to fetch a 2nd round pick, especially if they are years away from making the NHL. Schneider had a taste of the NHL this season, but he is still a year or two away from being considered anything other than a first string goalie on the Moose or a backup on the Canucks.

Two teams could really be interested in developing a goalie like Schneider - Philli and LA. If either offered Gillis a way to improve the Canucks, Gillis wouldn't hesitate trading Schneider or even packaging him with other Canuck assets.

Most of the offers to Philli in this thread are rediculous, but Philli does have some assets they could trade and which Vancouver would be very interested in. Vancouver is looking for top six centres, top six RW or a puck moving defenseman. Philli would like to move salary, if only to be able to bid on players like Bouwmeester or Pronger.

Philli would like to trade Briere, but at age 30 & still 6 1/2 years left at a $6.5 mil cap hit, Gillis would not be interested. Same goes for Richards, though only 23, he still has 11 1/2 years left at a $5.75 mil per year cap hit. Philli is stuck with those contracts and those players.

Vancouver was & still is interested in Carter, but his trade value is far above that of Schneider. JVR is a propsect most teams would be interested in as well as Vancouver, but again, it would take more than Schneider to get him, though not much more. Lupul or Knuble would also interest the Canucks. On the open market, Lupul might bring a bit more in trade value than Schneider though Lupul does bring a fair amount of salary with him, but the way the two players improve a major hole in each other's team, a straight Lupul for Schneider trade could happen and benefit both teams. Knuble by himself, is not going to fetch Schneider.

As far as forwards go for this season's playoffs, Philli is a very top heavy team. Very strong top six, but weaker than average bottom six. The comment that 3rd and 4th line players are a dime a dozen isn't true. To be successful a team's 3rd line should be almost as skilled defensively as the first line is skilled offensively. If Philli was trading for a package that included one of the prospect goalies, the rest of the package should concentrate on improving Philli's quality of defensive bottom six players or in improving their defensive core. Vancouver's bottom six includes a lot of players who have shown they have the skill to play on the top siz, but are even more skilled when used in a defensive role (Kesler, Burrows, Pyatt, Bernier, Hansen)

For a trade deadline trade, I could see:

Lupul for Schneider and Nycholat or Davison

MVR for Schneider, Pyatt & Vancouver's 2nd in 2009

Lupul and MVR for Schneider, O'Brien, Johnson & Vancouver's 2nd in 2009

Carter for Schneider, Ohlund (UFA, but signable), Kesler, Burrows

Knuble & Philli's 2nd in 2009 for Schneider

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Old
03-01-2009, 03:51 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessie View Post
Although I think that a Richards or Carter is overpayment, I also think that thinking that a top goalie prospect would go for more then some of the posts indicated here. What would it take? I have no idea as most teams owning those top goaltending prospects tend not to want to trade them unless for a big overpayment. I think that some are overvalueing the return here and others are undervalueing the possible return. Something in the middle is probably most likely. So, what would it take? Maybe a top prospect and a draftpick? But who knows...
They really wouldn't, which past trade makes you think otherwise? I'd like to see a single example of a goalie prospect who never played more then 20 games garner a large return.

They don't want to trade them because their goaltending future is uncertain, not because they want an overpayment. If Luongo was signed for another 5 years, Schneider would not get the canucks anything more then a 2nd. Trades aren't built around goalie prospects.. goalie prospects are throw ins.

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Old
03-01-2009, 04:10 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
I could see Gillis trading Schneider even this week. To base decisions to improve the team on posibilities that a player may not sign with the team in the future likely means it's the GM that won't be there in the future.

The idea that Luongo won't re-sign with the Canucks was postulated by a couple of Vancouver sports radio hosts trying to promote something to talk about and it created enough of a stir that other sports writers and HF fans started to believe it.
Luongo has given no indication he is unhappy in Vancouver or that he won't re-sign if offered a contract similar to what he has now. Schneider is one of the better goalie prospects. You are right that most goalie prospect would be lucky to fetch a 2nd round pick, especially if they are years away from making the NHL. Schneider had a taste of the NHL this season, but he is still a year or two away from being considered anything other than a first string goalie on the Moose or a backup on the Canucks.

Two teams could really be interested in developing a goalie like Schneider - Philli and LA. If either offered Gillis a way to improve the Canucks, Gillis wouldn't hesitate trading Schneider or even packaging him with other Canuck assets.

Most of the offers to Philli in this thread are rediculous, but Philli does have some assets they could trade and which Vancouver would be very interested in. Vancouver is looking for top six centres, top six RW or a puck moving defenseman. Philli would like to move salary, if only to be able to bid on players like Bouwmeester or Pronger.

Philli would like to trade Briere, but at age 30 & still 6 1/2 years left at a $6.5 mil cap hit, Gillis would not be interested. Same goes for Richards, though only 23, he still has 11 1/2 years left at a $5.75 mil per year cap hit. Philli is stuck with those contracts and those players.

Vancouver was & still is interested in Carter, but his trade value is far above that of Schneider. JVR is a propsect most teams would be interested in as well as Vancouver, but again, it would take more than Schneider to get him, though not much more. Lupul or Knuble would also interest the Canucks. On the open market, Lupul might bring a bit more in trade value than Schneider though Lupul does bring a fair amount of salary with him, but the way the two players improve a major hole in each other's team, a straight Lupul for Schneider trade could happen and benefit both teams. Knuble by himself, is not going to fetch Schneider.

As far as forwards go for this season's playoffs, Philli is a very top heavy team. Very strong top six, but weaker than average bottom six. The comment that 3rd and 4th line players are a dime a dozen isn't true. To be successful a team's 3rd line should be almost as skilled defensively as the first line is skilled offensively. If Philli was trading for a package that included one of the prospect goalies, the rest of the package should concentrate on improving Philli's quality of defensive bottom six players or in improving their defensive core. Vancouver's bottom six includes a lot of players who have shown they have the skill to play on the top siz, but are even more skilled when used in a defensive role (Kesler, Burrows, Pyatt, Bernier, Hansen)

For a trade deadline trade, I could see:

Lupul for Schneider and Nycholat or Davison

MVR for Schneider, Pyatt & Vancouver's 2nd in 2009

Lupul and MVR for Schneider, O'Brien, Johnson & Vancouver's 2nd in 2009

Carter for Schneider, Ohlund (UFA, but signable), Kesler, Burrows

Knuble & Philli's 2nd in 2009 for Schneider
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being "stuck" with Richards contract. 5.75 is a bargain for what he will bring now and through his prime.

Other than that, a good post, I can't see Carter being traded, if ever, until his current deal is up and he is a RFA, but I could definately see Lupul or JVR being traded for Schneider however. Don't think it will happen until the summer when/if Luongo signs.

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Old
03-01-2009, 09:47 PM
  #79
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i don't know, it was a pretty bad goal.

Theodore for Thomas?

Thomas has been Vezina-worthy this year - one bad goal doesn't change that. I'd still take him on the Caps in a heartbeat. I think he kept the Bruins in that game - without a few of his saves, it may have been 5 or even 6-3.
Same with Theodore though. He robbed Thornton on a rebound and robbed Bergeron's one timer, as well as a few others. Both guys had some huge saves

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Old
03-02-2009, 06:39 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards View Post
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being "stuck" with Richards contract. 5.75 is a bargain for what he will bring now and through his prime.

Other than that, a good post, I can't see Carter being traded, if ever, until his current deal is up and he is a RFA, but I could definately see Lupul or JVR being traded for Schneider however. Don't think it will happen until the summer when/if Luongo signs.
I agree with this Richard's contract is great, maybe a few years long but great. I don't really want Lupul but a Schneider JVR summer deal might work itself out (if Luongo signs).

As for thsi whole thing I have to agree with Shadow (which is funny because we had this discussion last week about Schneider), Rask is to valueable to Bos to move and would never be traded, However he is not "worth" or similar "value" to Carter or Richards. That's just crazy to say. Boston won't trade him and that's that.

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Old
03-02-2009, 08:41 AM
  #81
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Rask isn't available, Chia said GM's stopped calling him about Rask because he's already told every GM in the league he isn't available and they finally gave up.

Who would it take off your roster? No one. Boston isn't interested.

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Old
03-02-2009, 10:53 AM
  #82
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to philly:
ondrej pavelec, thrashers 2nd round pick, 4th round pick

to atlanta:
JVR

probably lopsided towards atlanta but it's a starting point

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Old
03-02-2009, 11:08 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
to philly:
ondrej pavelec, thrashers 2nd round pick, 4th round pick

to atlanta:
JVR

probably lopsided towards atlanta but it's a starting point
Dear God No!

IF JVR is traded, it will be for a more proven goalie. Pavalec has been awful since his failed stint in the NHL. He doesn't have close to the value that JVR has...and a 2nd + 4th doesn't change that.

Look at it this way, if JVR were traded to Vancouver, it would be Schneider + 1st atleast. I'd take Schneider over Pavalec anyday of the week.

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Old
03-02-2009, 11:22 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards View Post
Dear God No!

IF JVR is traded, it will be for a more proven goalie. Pavalec has been awful since his failed stint in the NHL. He doesn't have close to the value that JVR has...and a 2nd + 4th doesn't change that.

Look at it this way, if JVR were traded to Vancouver, it would be Schneider + 1st atleast. I'd take Schneider over Pavalec anyday of the week.
JVR and Schneider have values that are relatively close. There's not a first round pick worth of difference there.

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Old
03-02-2009, 11:52 AM
  #85
Rhodes 81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards View Post
Dear God No!

IF JVR is traded, it will be for a more proven goalie. Pavalec has been awful since his failed stint in the NHL. He doesn't have close to the value that JVR has...and a 2nd + 4th doesn't change that.

Look at it this way, if JVR were traded to Vancouver, it would be Schneider + 1st atleast. I'd take Schneider over Pavalec anyday of the week.
which is my argument for not trading lehtonen

unfortunately there are some mental cases in atlanta that seem to think pavelec is the messiah

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Old
03-02-2009, 12:13 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Post a serious offer for any of these goaltending prospects to Philadelphia

Cory Schneider
Leland Irving
Justin Pogge
Jacob Markstrom
Tukka Rask

Karri Ramo
Jonathan Bernier
Ondrej Pavelec
Chet Pickard

I know some of those prospects are unlikely to be traded/untouchable in some eyes, but I would like to know how people value goalie prospects.
As a Flyers fan I wouldn't have interest in half of those names. The bolded are the only ones I'm interested in, but Rask and Markstrom would be pretty untouchable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
Haha get bent. You think it would cost Richards or Carter to get Schneider? Pickard? Markstrom? That is insane value wise not to mention you are trading proven all star players for goalie prospects lol. Look at Price, he has been decent but is now riding the bench to Halak, and thats after establishing himself somewhat.

But I guess with the way Boston fans are overreacting to TT goal against Semin, they may be crazy enough to think that.
You are right it is absurd to suggest any of those goalies could get Richards or Carter, but I do get his sentiment. If you have a potential franchise goalie like Rask or Markstrom there is no incentive to trade them unless it's for an overpayment. As us Flyers fans know better than anyone it is extremely hard to find a franchise goaltender so it would be pretty stupid to deal one when you have one unless it's for an overpayment. On the other hand, no one is going to overpay for an unproven prospect because goalie is the toughest position to develop. I imagine this is why we don't see many top goalie prospects traded. They have way more value to the team that drafted them.

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