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Upshall-Carcillo Discussion; UPDATE (post #862) McLaren trade is nullified

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Old
03-04-2009, 08:02 PM
  #26
GKJ
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HORRIBLE!!

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03-04-2009, 08:03 PM
  #27
Flyersfan1216
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YES !! I love this kid. He can REALLY throw. Carcillo has more offense to his game then he has shown. He had 13 goals last year. He will be a fan favorite for a long time.

Upshall you were a decent player for us. Thanks. Maybe if you wanna come back you can sign in the off-season.

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03-04-2009, 08:04 PM
  #28
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**** paul ****ing **** face holmgrin for this one. I liked what he did with a lot of moves in the past. but today was a blatant failure for him as a GM

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03-04-2009, 08:04 PM
  #29
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I have nothing against Carcillo personally, except he's a much lesser version of Hartnell...stupid, fights and adds points. But there was absolutely no reason to make this trade. If you want to trade Upshall and a 2nd...go out and get Jordan Leopold. If you wanted a tough role player, trade for Travis Moen. If you want to trade for Carcillo...you have to make them take Cote. Then again, people complain Cote is small....Carcillo is smaller. I'd actually liken him more to Downie.


Kyle McLaren...has to clear re-entry waivers. He's not even guaranteed to ever put on a Flyers sweater. Couldn't make a trade for a guy who is at least playing in the NHL?

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03-04-2009, 08:05 PM
  #30
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And everyone does realize that we just got the player with the most PIM's in the league and our team is already tied for 3rd in times shorthanded, right? Yeah, this is exactly what we needed!

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03-04-2009, 08:05 PM
  #31
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I really liked Scottie so I'm kind of bummed about him not being here anymore. However, this is a business so I'm going to deal with the new members. I don't really know about Carcillo so I can't do anything but keep an open mind. And add me to the list of people who don't get why the pick had to be included.

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03-04-2009, 08:05 PM
  #32
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Oh yes how will we replace Scotty Upshall. His 7 goals will be huge. Come on people. Upshall brings nothing besides his little offense. He doesn't fight , when he tries to hit he bounces off.

Upshall was leaving in the off-season anyways. Be glad Homer got a similar player who can really fight for him 700K cheaper ( we need the cap space ) and under contract for the 550K next year.

Great Job Homer !!

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03-04-2009, 08:06 PM
  #33
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people dont realize...carcillo can actually play...you will be surprised

the reality is that upshall just isnt that good...i love him but i honostly think carcillo is better

i am still not sure about the 2nd rounder though...seems like too much

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03-04-2009, 08:07 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by six sigma View Post
He's no goon. He fights a lot, but he can actually play hockey. You'll see.
I'll try to take your word for it for now, but I'll believe it when I see it.

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03-04-2009, 08:08 PM
  #35
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I've had time to think about this and calm down (the air was blue in my car today when I heard it). I hate this deal. For a few reasons.

Carcillo isn't an upgrade from Upshall and saves a whopping $400K. Plus it cost a 2nd rounder. I wouldn't have been happy with Upshall for Carcillo straight up, but tossing in a pick is ridiculous. This is a 25 year old player who couldn't crack the top 6 on a team full of 19 and 20 year olds. And he never scored a PPG in the OHL.

I have a bigger concern about the chemistry. Holmgren has done a great job building a core group of young guys who genuinely like each other, and stand up for one another on the ice. Upshall was a key part of that group of players that hung out together in the offseason and on off days. From everything I've ever heard about Carcillo, he's not that kind of player.

And the last thing the Flyers need is a penalty machine. Flyers fans complain about the dumb penalties Hartnell takes. Carcillo makes Hartnell look like an amateur.

So the Flyers got a 3rd line player who can't slide into an upper line in a pinch, takes a ton of stupid penalties, scores less than Upshall, isn't a team player, and does squat for the salary cap issues.

Oh, and then there's those two major suspensions he received in the OHL, which is why he only played 20 games in his last year in the league. A 15 gamer and a 26 gamer - both for crosschecks to the face/head - one target was a rookie. If you don't think Carter, Richards, and Parent don't know about this guy, you're dreaming. He's crap.

Yay.

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03-04-2009, 08:08 PM
  #36
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The 2nd rounder I think is the price we pay for getting a comparable player who will probably cost 1 million less next year.

I dunno, I still don't agree with this.

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03-04-2009, 08:08 PM
  #37
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Like with all the moves he's made, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's made some good reads in the past, and well he's the GM of a professional hockey team with professional scouts who know more about talent and hockey than any of us ever will. I've only ever seen Carcillo once or twice, so I'll give him 5-10 games before I decide if we should've done it.

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Old
03-04-2009, 08:10 PM
  #38
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whats the deal with mclaren? is he an NHL calibre defenceman? 6th? 7th? what?

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03-04-2009, 08:11 PM
  #39
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If I were to guess, he's going to the AHL and then we'll bring him up for playoffs.

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03-04-2009, 08:11 PM
  #40
Black Ice
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Does anyone know the details of the deal that Carcillo has? Is he here for a little while or is he a rental?

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03-04-2009, 08:11 PM
  #41
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Sounds like a lot of people say he can play. I think the 2nd is overpayment, but the kid is only 23 years old, too. A lot of his quirks can probably be worked out and I think if there is one thing Stevens is good at, its bringing along young players. I think we've seen guys like Coburn, Carter, Richards, and Sbisa play well and I think Carcillo will get a good opportunity here.

It sounds like he is also a better fighter than Cote...is this true? If so, you've got to think Ross has earned a spot on the roster as well. Lets not forget Ross in all this -- AHL fastest skater and offensively has a lot to prove but has the skill to do so. I could see Ross as a cheap replacement for Upshall.

The 2nd may be overpayment, but I can certainly see where Holmgren was going here.

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03-04-2009, 08:14 PM
  #42
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For all of you people saying " too many penalties "... lets take a look shall we...

Of All of Carcillo's penalty minutes 90 of those penalty minutes are fighting majors, and 3 are misconducts. He has 27 minors in 54 games.

Upshall had 24 in 55. Essentially it's a break-even proposition in minors.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mclaren is here for the AHL only. When the playoffs start he will be called up. No cap in the playoffs. So if a Flyer Dman goes down it ( recent history shows someone will ) hewill be a hell alot better then Lasse Kukkonen or Nate Guenin. Mclaren has played nearly 80 NHL playoff games. Good guy to have just in case.

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Old
03-04-2009, 08:16 PM
  #43
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Here's what some Phoenix fans had to say, he sounds like if put in the right environment he could play well.

Danny is an energy guy, in more ways than one, a fan fav here. We had hopes that he could score 20 maybe 30 goals. But he's a head case, sometimes he just gets focused about his next fight and takes himself out of the play. His massive PIM last year were mainly due to pulling an extra 10 for mouthing off at the reffs. Something this yr he has simmered down on. FYI we Coyotes fans had a tradition of the "Carcillo Hat Trick" this would entail a goal, a fight and a 10 minute (could be a game or regular misconduct) Please continue the tradition...

I think he could score quite a few goals on a line with those two. The general consensus with in the organization was that he had the potential to be a 20-30 goal scorer, I'm not quite sure they have the same opinion anymore. Most of his PIMs are from fights and misconducts, but sometimes he'll take some stupid minors. His tendency to let his emotions control him are what I think got him on the trade block.

Well he showed glimpses of offensive potential at the end of last season when he scored a hat trick. It seems this year he's taken a step back but I think a lot of it had to do with coaching/management. They pretty much neutered him and he's just not effective in that state. Granted his wildness hurt the team at times but I think overall you're better off just letting him be his wild self!

I think the change of scenery will do well for Carcillo and the Philly fans are going to LOVE him. I mean absolutely LOVE him! If he can get the fire going again, I think he could be a regular 15g - 20a kinda player. Don't think of him as a goon, think of him as a Sean Avery type who doesn't turtle and isn't a ****** bag!

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Old
03-04-2009, 08:17 PM
  #44
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Hartnell, Asham, Cote, Carcillo... This should be a fun rest of the season

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03-04-2009, 08:17 PM
  #45
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- Carcillo is at 800K the next 2 years.

- He's a better fighter than Cote.

- I was about the post the minor penalty thing.

Hartnell has 46 minor penalties, 19 more than Coburn.

I like Hartnell, but what the hell? That man seriously needs to learn how to control himself.

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03-04-2009, 08:17 PM
  #46
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I'll never understand the love for Scottie. He was a decent energy guy who did nothing exceptionally well.

We're going to love Carcillo. Yes, he takes stupid penalties. But, I like maniacs on my hockey team. And, he can play a little as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0WF2AhTj8w

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03-04-2009, 08:17 PM
  #47
Raffl House
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyersfan1216 View Post
For all of you people saying " too many penalties "... lets take a look shall we...

Of All of Carcillo's penalty minutes 90 of those penalty minutes are fighting majors, and 3 are misconducts. He has 27 minors in 54 games.

Upshall had 24 in 55. Essentially it's a break-even proposition in minors.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mclaren is here for the AHL only. When the playoffs start he will be called up. No cap in the playoffs. So if a Flyer Dman goes down it ( recent history shows someone will ) hewill be a hell alot better then Lasse Kukkonen or Nate Guenin. Mclaren has played nearly 80 NHL playoff games. Good guy to have just in case.
Great post for a guy without many posts. Awesome breakdown in the PIM's and I think that should ease SOME of the fears in people here. Good analysis on McLaren, as well.

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Old
03-04-2009, 08:18 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Yeah, don't get me wrong and HF, please don't ban me for saying this!

But if I were a sponsor, I'd be a tad annoyed right now.

EDIT: Eh, on 2nd thought maybe not cause HF is such a great website and is probably tough to maintain.
Tell me about it, I've been really upset not being able to access the website half the day


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Old
03-04-2009, 08:18 PM
  #49
GKJ
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The Upshall trade was not a trade the Flyers should have been desperate to make. Upshall should have been traded FOR a draft pick and not with one. The Penguins got a better return for a friggin' conditional pick. And then Holmgren says he can play on the top lines? What? They don't get proper value for their assets, which, is no shock and continues to be a trend with Holmgren. At some point, he's going to have to answer for that. This team seems to get fixated on players and try to justify giving up too much by saying that 'he was a guy on our radar.'

Have to stop making these trades, and draft these guys yourselves.

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Old
03-04-2009, 08:19 PM
  #50
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McLaren is not a good guy just in case. He is a dinosaur. Players like him were extinct with the old NHL. He cleared waivers and was sent down for a reason.

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