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Upshall-Carcillo Discussion; UPDATE (post #862) McLaren trade is nullified

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:20 PM
  #51
Get Carter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyersfan1216 View Post
For all of you people saying " too many penalties "... lets take a look shall we...

Of All of Carcillo's penalty minutes 90 of those penalty minutes are fighting majors, and 3 are misconducts. He has 27 minors in 54 games.

Upshall had 24 in 55. Essentially it's a break-even proposition in minors.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mclaren is here for the AHL only. When the playoffs start he will be called up. No cap in the playoffs. So if a Flyer Dman goes down it ( recent history shows someone will ) hewill be a hell alot better then Lasse Kukkonen or Nate Guenin. Mclaren has played nearly 80 NHL playoff games. Good guy to have just in case.


Most of those minors are him dragging someone else off the ice too. He rarely takes the stupid penalties like Hartnell.

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03-04-2009, 09:20 PM
  #52
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I have to say, the more I think about it, the more I come around to this deal. Like I said, a 3.2% shooting percentage is abnormally low for any forward with a modicum of offensive talent, I mean, if he shoots at 12 percent which is fairly average and what he's shot the last 2 years, he MIGHT be a 20 goal guy.

The 2nd round pick still kills me though.

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:20 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by six sigma View Post
He's no goon. He fights a lot, but he can actually play hockey. You'll see.
Absolutely. It's kind of fun to see everyone freaking out thinking we traded Upshall for a "goon/fighter only". I give it 2 weeks tops before people realize just who Carcillo is.

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:21 PM
  #54
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The trade was great, except for the 2nd rounder thing.

I will make this guarantee to you Flyers fans...Assuming he's playing on a line with Giroux and Briere, he will have a goal in his first 2 games.

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03-04-2009, 09:21 PM
  #55
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GKJ, I'm not positive on this, but I think McLaren got sent down for salary reasons, he's a bottom pairing guy making 2.5 mill.

He's been decent in the new NHL. Nothing special, but I'm fine with him as a 7th or 8th D for the playoffs.

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03-04-2009, 09:22 PM
  #56
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At any rate, Cote better be off this team. Soon.

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:24 PM
  #57
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Today's trades were an example of the old school Philadelphia mentality - getting brutes who either can't play (McLaren) or are headcases (Carcillo). I just don't get it with this franchise sometimes. Why is it that when they start thinking forward and try ditching that old school ground 'em and pound 'em style of play, they go out and acquire ground 'em and pound 'em players? Not only that, but the continual throwing away of second round picks is ridiculous, especially when a player like Jordan Leopold went for two scrubs and a 2nd round pick.

I don't know what's going on with Holmgren, but ever since the draft, he's managed to mess things up on a grand scale and today is a perfect example of that. Seriously, someone within the franchise needs to have a sit down with him and find out why he made the moves he did, because they make no sense at all. And for those who think McLaren is going to be a veteran presence with the Phantoms - he's only played in 17 games this year. How effective is he going to be and honestly, what veteran leadership does he bring to the table?

This franchise took two huge giant steps back today. At the very least, if they were going to move Upshall, then just taking back picks or future considerations would have worked. Holmgren really s-h-i-t the bed today and if the Flyers tank in the first round, his neck should be on the line.

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03-04-2009, 09:24 PM
  #58
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Mclaren is a 3rd pair NHL Dman. SJ has cap problems too. Thats why he is in the AHL. He'll be there until the playoffs.

He has 80 NHL playoff games. That alone will help the young D-core outside of Kimmo. And yes he is better then Kukkonen or Guenin. He is the perfect 7th Dman in the playoffs.

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03-04-2009, 09:28 PM
  #59
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FlyHigh, if he was decent, he wouldn't have been in the minors. Someone would have traded for him - even if it was for a charity like what happened with Gauthier. This was a guy who used to be able to play. If we wanted him so bad, all we had to do was ask the Sharks to recall him, they would have gladly done it. $2.5M for one year...we're not talking about a long-term cap killer here.

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03-04-2009, 09:28 PM
  #60
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im ok with today. the 2nd is in 2011, we should have a cup by then. this is a good compromise for giving us movements to and from the farm team.

im one of few who didnt expect a major addition. we didnt have the money. and i sure didnt hear of any flyers coming forward to renegotiate their contracts to get someone here. id like to see what mclaren can do.

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03-04-2009, 09:28 PM
  #61
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For the record, I don't think losing Scottie Upshall is going to determine whether we lose in the 1st round of the playoffs or not.

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03-04-2009, 09:30 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Today's trades were an example of the old school Philadelphia mentality - getting brutes who either can't play (McLaren) or are headcases (Carcillo). I just don't get it with this franchise sometimes. Why is it that when they start thinking forward and try ditching that old school ground 'em and pound 'em style of play, they go out and acquire ground 'em and pound 'em players? Not only that, but the continual throwing away of second round picks is ridiculous, especially when a player like Jordan Leopold went for two scrubs and a 2nd round pick.

I don't know what's going on with Holmgren, but ever since the draft, he's managed to mess things up on a grand scale and today is a perfect example of that. Seriously, someone within the franchise needs to have a sit down with him and find out why he made the moves he did, because they make no sense at all. And for those who think McLaren is going to be a veteran presence with the Phantoms - he's only played in 17 games this year. How effective is he going to be and honestly, what veteran leadership does he bring to the table?

This franchise took two huge giant steps back today. At the very least, if they were going to move Upshall, then just taking back picks or future considerations would have worked. Holmgren really s-h-i-t the bed today and if the Flyers tank in the first round, his neck should be on the line.
The franchise took a step backwards because they moved Scottie Upshall ? My god man. He's a 3rd line player. That's all. Carcillo will replace him with more grit and a solid checking presence. He also makes less which will be good in case the flyers need to call up someone.

Mclaren IS NOT playing for the Flyers. AHL move only untill the NHL playoffs then he becomes the 7th Dman. He only played 17 games because Downie boarded him in the A this year and broke his wrist.

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:30 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
At any rate, Cote better be off this team. Soon.
That's the thing. If you're trading for Carcillo, Cote has to go the other way, and if the Coyotes are unwilling, you either wait until the off-season or walk away.

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:31 PM
  #64
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@ GKJ, I don't think so.

McLaren is the type of guy who has no value to a regular season contender because he's too expensive (all the contenders are tight against the cap) and not much value to a rebuilding team (what's the point of giving up an asset for him if you're rebuilding?).

I don't think it's a bad move, gives the Phantoms some leadership for a while and then he can be a depth guy in the playoffs.

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:31 PM
  #65
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FlyHigh, I don't think so either, but it's the principle. We didn't get our money's worth with this trade. Our assets could have been better spent.

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:32 PM
  #66
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I love the Carcillo trade. Trust me, i've watched a few Phoenix games this year and Flyers fans are going to love this guy. The 2nd round DP does kinda suck to give up...but who cares? we held on to our 1st, and if you look at the stats, thats the one that really matters. beside, we could probably get another 2nd in another trade in hte future.

McLaren wasnt sent to the AHL because he sucked...he was sent to the AHL due to the cap. He probably does make too much for what he brings, but the guy can be a good 5th/6th d-man if he was making half of what he does. If you want to see the "Art of the Hip-Check" just youtube "Kyle McLaren"

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:33 PM
  #67
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Why is it against the law to have 3 really tough guys on a roster?

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03-04-2009, 09:33 PM
  #68
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GKJ, if you're talking about the Carcillo trade, I agree with you. I don't think any possible upgrade from Upshall to Carcillo (if there even is one) is worth a 2nd round pick.

If we weren't going to keep Upshall, we should have kept him till the draft and dealt him for a pick.

The McLaren one I think is a good deal, the 2004 defensemen massacre is still fresh in my memory.

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03-04-2009, 09:33 PM
  #69
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Like, I said before, you guys are going to love him.

Video proof:








His problem is that the coaching staff here in Phoenix tried to keep him almost too in control, which is good for the team as a whole, but kind of saps all of his offensive ability. His ability to play on the edge is what makes him the player he is, at the same time his inability to keep himself just on that edge is his greatest weakness.

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03-04-2009, 09:34 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
I've had time to think about this and calm down (the air was blue in my car today when I heard it). I hate this deal. For a few reasons.

Carcillo isn't an upgrade from Upshall and saves a whopping $400K. Plus it cost a 2nd rounder. I wouldn't have been happy with Upshall for Carcillo straight up, but tossing in a pick is ridiculous. This is a 25 year old player who couldn't crack the top 6 on a team full of 19 and 20 year olds. And he never scored a PPG in the OHL.

I have a bigger concern about the chemistry. Holmgren has done a great job building a core group of young guys who genuinely like each other, and stand up for one another on the ice. Upshall was a key part of that group of players that hung out together in the offseason and on off days. From everything I've ever heard about Carcillo, he's not that kind of player.

And the last thing the Flyers need is a penalty machine. Flyers fans complain about the dumb penalties Hartnell takes. Carcillo makes Hartnell look like an amateur.

So the Flyers got a 3rd line player who can't slide into an upper line in a pinch, takes a ton of stupid penalties, scores less than Upshall, isn't a team player, and does squat for the salary cap issues.

Oh, and then there's those two major suspensions he received in the OHL, which is why he only played 20 games in his last year in the league. A 15 gamer and a 26 gamer - both for crosschecks to the face/head - one target was a rookie. If you don't think Carter, Richards, and Parent don't know about this guy, you're dreaming. He's crap.

Yay.
This post couldn't be more wrong / yet unimportant. What does scoring in the OHL have to do now ? What does taking a suspension in the OHL have to do with now ? He isn't a major scorer. He's a fine 3rd liner who will chip in with goals but will fight and hit. He is signed untill next year with a very cheap cap hit.

Doesn't like his teammates ? Last 2 years he has been right up there in fighting. That is sticking up for your teammates. There is a reason Phoenix fans are sad too see him go. He has taken 27 minor penalties , 19 less then Hartnell and only 3 more then Upshall.

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:34 PM
  #71
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FlyHigh, if we're making a trade for a defensive d-man...he has to be in the NHL. Or at least have played in the NHL. There's no reason we couldn't trade for Niclas Havelid...absolutely none.

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:35 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by PhillyFan4Ever
im ok with today. the 2nd is in 2011, we should have a cup by then. this is a good compromise for giving us movements to and from the farm team.
Jesus ****ing Christ think before posting something like that.

Anyway, I always thought Upshall was just unbelievably overrated here. He's fast, a good team guy, physical but too small, and he could not finish for the life of him.

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03-04-2009, 09:35 PM
  #73
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gkj the sarks would have never brought him up because if he was a shark at the time they would prorate the contract and it would go against their cap much like partial would go against ours. he was sent into waivers because of cap issues because if no one picks him up hes sent to the ahl and it doesnt go against the cap. they werent going to bring him up because of his contract. that doesnt mean hes a bad addition.


these trade looking at it face value make ok sense. i also remember a few on here screaming last year why we didnt get more aggressive with trading carter.

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03-04-2009, 09:35 PM
  #74
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If they fit in it's not.

It's when you don't have places for them all to reasonably play in one game that it's stupid.

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03-04-2009, 09:36 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
FlyHigh, I don't think so either, but it's the principle. We didn't get our money's worth with this trade. Our assets could have been better spent.
we gave up a friggin 6th round pick for him! get over it! there was like a 0.00001% chance that the guy we could of drafted with that pick would have had any impact at the NHL level

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