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Upshall-Carcillo Discussion; UPDATE (post #862) McLaren trade is nullified

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03-04-2009, 08:37 PM
  #76
CharlieGirl
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The Flyers are no better off now than they were yesterday, and depending on how Carcillo fits in with the rest of the young guys, they could be a little worse off.

While I agree that Upshall isn't the difference between a Cup or not, Carcillo sure as hell isn't. So what was the point?

He's not a scorer. His best year in the NHL was 24 pts in 57 games. This year, he has 10 in 54 games.

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03-04-2009, 08:37 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
FlyHigh, if we're making a trade for a defensive d-man...he has to be in the NHL. Or at least have played in the NHL. There's no reason we couldn't trade for Niclas Havelid...absolutely none.
I dunno, Salmela wasn't a bad asset, lots of success in SM-Liiga and had 24 points in 38 games in the AHL, I don't think we really had anything like that.

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03-04-2009, 08:37 PM
  #78
Terence Peterman
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Upshall's problem with finishing was his insisting on shooting the puck from the top of the ****ing circle every time he brought it in. When he utilized his speed and brought in closer he was much more successful, as shown by his goal last game and against Minnesota a while ago.

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03-04-2009, 08:38 PM
  #79
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Jesus ****ing Christ think before posting something like that.

Anyway, I always thought Upshall was just unbelievably overrated here. He's fast, a good team guy, physical but too small, and he could not finish for the life of him.
think how? you dont think we are a contender by this year, or the next 2 seasons?

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03-04-2009, 08:38 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
I love the Carcillo trade. Trust me, i've watched a few Phoenix games this year and Flyers fans are going to love this guy. The 2nd round DP does kinda suck to give up...but who cares? we held on to our 1st, and if you look at the stats, thats the one that really matters. beside, we could probably get another 2nd in another trade in hte future.

McLaren wasnt sent to the AHL because he sucked...he was sent to the AHL due to the cap. He probably does make too much for what he brings, but the guy can be a good 5th/6th d-man if he was making half of what he does
He was sent because he sucks. Or else the Sharks wouldn't be replacing him with Brad Lukowich (a favorite missed target of mine in the past). His play totally dropped off.

And I'd say 2nd round picks do matter, they're not gold, but to say 'who cares,' just look at some recent guys who were drafted in the 2nd round in recent years. Paul Stastny, Patrice Bergeron, Matt Carle, Patrick O'Sullivan, Milan Lucic, Shea Weber, Fedor Tyutin....these are guys we're missing out on. Could you imagine if we had Shea Weber? Our defense would be set for 10 years.

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03-04-2009, 08:38 PM
  #81
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I don't like this trade one bit. Especially since we gave up the second rounder. We should have kept Upshall and let someone throw him a offer sheet in the off season. The move was a total shock. Unless Carcillo brings energy and gives 100% each shift, this trade was a steal for the Coyotes. I do hope Cote gets sent down with this trade though.

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03-04-2009, 08:39 PM
  #82
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Havelid is a pylon, thats why we didnt trade for him

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03-04-2009, 08:39 PM
  #83
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the point charlie is we arent in a corner now with movements from and to the phantoms.

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03-04-2009, 08:40 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I dunno, Salmela wasn't a bad asset, lots of success in SM-Liiga and had 24 points in 38 games in the AHL, I don't think we really had anything like that.
We had an NHL player to give them, apparently.

I'll throw out another name: Steve Montador.

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03-04-2009, 08:41 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
FlyHigh, if we're making a trade for a defensive d-man...he has to be in the NHL. Or at least have played in the NHL. There's no reason we couldn't trade for Niclas Havelid...absolutely none.
Mclaren was/is only in the minors for cap reasons....the Sharks have the same problems we do with the cap (except not as extreme), but they have better D-Men.

Don't worry, we gave up a ****ing 6th rounder for defensive insurance. That's a great deal. Possibly the steal of the day.

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03-04-2009, 08:42 PM
  #86
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I have to say, one of the underrated benefits from this trade could be getting Cote off the team.

I mean, Cote holds that 4th line down. However, a 4th line that can run around, bang guys, and log a solid 6-7 playoff minutes can be a huge asset.

Asham-Ross-Powe is a hell of a lot better than Cote-Powe-Asham.

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03-04-2009, 08:43 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilaFlyers View Post
I don't like this trade one bit. Especially since we gave up the second rounder. We should have kept Upshall and let someone throw him a offer sheet in the off season. The move was a total shock. Unless Carcillo brings energy and gives 100% each shift, this trade was a steal for the Coyotes. I do hope Cote gets sent down with this trade though.
1.Carcillo DEFINITELY brings 100% energy every shift.

2. Cote isn't going anywhere.

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03-04-2009, 08:44 PM
  #88
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Honestly GKJ, I'd rather have McLaren for the playoffs than Montador, McLaren has a lot more snarl.

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03-04-2009, 08:44 PM
  #89
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Homer said today that Cote isn't going anywhere.

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03-04-2009, 08:44 PM
  #90
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I don't think Cote will play very much in the playoffs actually. I'd see either Kalinski (when healthy) playing instead.

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03-04-2009, 08:44 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Flyersfan1216 View Post
This post couldn't be more wrong / yet unimportant. What does scoring in the OHL have to do now ? What does taking a suspension in the OHL have to do with now ? He isn't a major scorer. He's a fine 3rd liner who will chip in with goals but will fight and hit. He is signed untill next year with a very cheap cap hit.

Doesn't like his teammates ? Last 2 years he has been right up there in fighting. That is sticking up for your teammates. There is a reason Phoenix fans are sad too see him go. He has taken 27 minor penalties , 19 less then Hartnell and only 3 more then Upshall.
Scoring in the OHL? Let's see -- the vast majority of NHL players were exceptional junior league/college players. Even 3rd and 4th liners.

Are you saying that every fight is sticking up for teammates? I beg to differ. We've seen Cote go numerous times where it had nothing to do with a teammate.

While some Phoenix fans may sad to see him go, there's also a reason he was benched in Phoenix. Taking selfish, stupid penalties. If he's benched on a team that is desperate for scoring and experience, what the hell is going to happen here?

If it were one isolated suspension in the OHL, perhaps I wouldn't have a problem with it. But it wasn't. They were incredibly dangerous, incredibly stupid moves against not one but two players. Do I think he's capable of changing? Yes, absolutely. And I hope he does.

The Flyers did not improve the team by adding Carcillo. They didn't decimate the team by moving Upshall. It's a nothing move that cost a 2nd rounder. So why Homer figured this was a necessary move is beyond me. Saving $400K did squat.

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03-04-2009, 08:44 PM
  #92
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Besides the fact that I hate this guy for what he did in the OHL, what did we do to improve our cap problems? We are so screwed going forward it isn't even funny.

For those who mentioned his ten minute misconducts, are they included in PIMs for each player? Just curious. What about game misconducts, are they included too?

We picked up a guy who has 10 points, is -13 and has 174 PIM and gave up a guy who has 21 points, is +5, has 63 PIMs and draws penalties with his speed. Oh, and we gave a second round pick along with it. Homer, you ****ed up big time.

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03-04-2009, 08:45 PM
  #93
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of course cote isnt goign to play much in the playoffs. why would he?

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Old
03-04-2009, 08:46 PM
  #94
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For what its worth, I like the trade. Ive seen him play a few times and hes insane, hes a philly guy, perfect for the 3rd line. He will produce as much as upshall as well IMO.

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03-04-2009, 08:47 PM
  #95
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Aw shucks...

Because Scottie is gone...

...this puppy is sad.

I kinda liked Upshall's energy too but I think maybe I'd like to see the new guy before casting aspersions.


Last edited by JXC: 03-04-2009 at 08:58 PM.
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03-04-2009, 08:47 PM
  #96
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Carcillo for Upshall is clearly, at least in part, a salary dump. Upshall is going to be $2M or so next year, Carcillo is $800K. You also can lose Cote after this year too.

McLaren is essentially playoff depth, I assume, instead of having to go to Guenin or something like that when our top 5 defenseman all have bubonic plague or tetanus or something like that.

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03-04-2009, 08:49 PM
  #97
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@ Woof, Carcillo and Upshall have the same amount of minor penalties.

Gretzky probably hated Carcillo because he took too many minors, but in Philly, we have 5 guys just like Carcillo or in Hartnell's case, even more undisciplined.

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03-04-2009, 08:49 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
He's not a scorer. His best year in the NHL was 24 pts in 57 games. This year, he has 10 in 54 games.
This is his second year.

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03-04-2009, 08:50 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
He's not a scorer. His best year in the NHL was 24 pts in 57 games. This year, he has 10 in 54 games.
And Upshall, who is 2 years older has topped out at 30 points in 61 games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyFan4Ever View Post
think how? you dont think we are a contender by this year, or the next 2 seasons?
Difference between "contender" and "should have a cup by 2011." Because I see about 10 teams who "contend" every year, and they only award a cup to one of them.

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03-04-2009, 08:50 PM
  #100
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I partially wonder if the Upshall/Carcillo deal was the precursor to a JayBo deal that just never happened.

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