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who would you guys most like to see us get?

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Old
03-04-2009, 01:05 PM
  #51
PredsMan
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I concur

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Old
03-04-2009, 07:58 PM
  #52
Joe T Choker
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Good to know that our GM has faith in this team this year to keep up their pace

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Old
03-04-2009, 08:33 PM
  #53
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Jackpot! (Making it onto the site I mean, not our lack of moves).

As much as I would have liked to get something, I can't find fault with where we wound up. Poni didn't get moved. Vermette went for something we couldn't offer. Kotalik was too expensive for a rental. The rest were and are defective and overpriced. Defective we could live with but not combined with overpriced.

I think Poile had Upshall lined up The Flyers needed to get rid of him but decided to vastly overpay for Crazy Dan instead.

I have no complaints. Disappointed but no complaints. The playoffs are within reach. Focus Luke Skywalker.

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:29 PM
  #54
Enoch
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I'm not upset with Poile today. It is a cumulative effect of consistent non-activity that bothered me this season which ended today. It drives me nuts that he sites salary issues while I look at our roster and see an over-abundance of third-fourth line/AHL tweeners, 2 defenseman that can easily be replaced by prospects right now, and don't even get me started on Jed Ortmeyer. Poile shot himself in the foot here.....not the market. I could care less if he solved the problems this team has today or thirty days ago. The cold hard reality is that we are a top 6 forward short, we have been two short almost the entire season. We have to hope that Sullivan isn't on a streak, rather he is approaching his old-form. We then have to hope that Joel Ward's mini streak is him maturing into a 2nd/3rd line forward. Sullivan I will buy into. I'm not buying into Ward right now. I fear his offense will tail off. He is a great addition to this team regardless, but I still think he is the ideal third liner, not second liner.

Then again, maybe Jones gains the coaches confidence, Erat catches fire when he returns, or a number of other combinations that will make this work. Poile is a solid GM. His decisions are always calculated and well reasoned. This is why I hated to hear him hide behind self-inflicted excuses post-deadline. There was truth to what he was saying, but there was also a large portion of the blame resting on his shoulders for the way he has handled the roster since October.

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Old
03-04-2009, 09:49 PM
  #55
dulzhok
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Stand Pat Poile doing what he does best!

Somewhat joking, consider that the only trades Poile ever pulls off are at the deadline (when the price is the highest). For some reason, it's the only time he gets the ***** to trade. The man has NO creativity in this department!

I agree with Enoch. It's not the in activity on deadline day, it's the inactivity outside of deadline day.

In our 11 year history, I think Poile has made about 4 significant trades outside of deadline day:
1) Trading for Ronning
2) Dunham for Zidlicky
3) Vokoun for 1st (might as well call this a Leipold trade)
4) Walker for Vasichek

At it's sad to call some of those trades significant.

This is why he has earned the name Stand Pat Poile. That, along with free agents having to make the initiative with Nashville.

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Old
03-04-2009, 10:57 PM
  #56
dulzhok
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Or you could simpifiy it further...

Outside of the deadline, Poile has made 2 trades that have made a positive impact on our team the past 11 years:

1) Trading for Cliff Ronning
2) Dunham for Zidlicky

Pretty pathetic if you ask me. You can categorize Poile's deadline deals this way:

Good: Sullivan
Decent: Sillinger, Hlavac
Busts: Witt, Forsberg, Karalahti, Zholtok, Shishkanov

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:51 PM
  #57
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I still donít think the Forsberg trade was a bust because they took a ballsy go-for-broke risk that was the right thing to do at the time, imo.

Had Poile said no to Upshall/Parent for Forsberg, and they lost in the 1st round anyway (likely) and Upshall/Parent had similar 07-09ís for us that they did in Philly (or likely worse considering how they would have been handled here), I feel that most people would be way more upset that they didnít go for it, especially in light of what happened with ownership afterwards. Poile gets a pass, imo, because I think that trade was more dictated by Leipold.

Pessimistically, I am fine with Poile not making any moves because Iím not confident that a) theyíll make the playoffs either way or b) they make the playoffs and draw someone besides SJ/Detroit, or c) they win a first round series with this roster or this roster + 1 cast-off.

As much as it sucks, Iíd like to see them try as hard as they can this season, retain all current assets, have the younger players come in next year improved, have Sullyís (and De Vries?) contract come off the books, see if itís possible at all to salvage something for Radulovís rights, get a few mid-range free agents, and/or make a draft trade using their assets when the market is much more favorable in terms of quality and style of players available.

The above not happening in the summer and settling with this roster for 2009-2010 would make me much angrier with Poile than not making a move today.

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Old
03-05-2009, 12:00 AM
  #58
worstfaceoffmanever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Good: Sullivan
Decent: Sillinger, Hlavac
Busts: Witt, Forsberg, Karalahti, Zholtok, Shishkanov
Um... we kind of drafted Shishkanov. He was the guy we traded for Sillinger.

I would not call the Forsberg trade a bust considering what we ended up parting with (Parent, Upshall, 3rd), and considering the fact that Trotz had no clue how to use him. Interesting fact: Forsberg only had one season where he played at less than a point-per-game clip: 2006-07. In Philadephia, he had 40 points in 40 games. In Nashville, he had 15 points in 17 games.

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Old
03-05-2009, 01:11 AM
  #59
braindead
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I think you also have to judge him on the entire body of work, so I would also add in consideration of UFA signings, contract negotiations, drafting, and how he dealt with the outside factors. He does well compared to his peers.

Key UFA's: Arnott, Dumont (I know they both called him...) Kariya. Mason and Ellis.

He has wrung production out of some amazing sources- think of the various cogs that have chipped in 15 goals here out of the blue before fading away on someone else's nickel.

He has found and signed unknown free agents that currently are significant role players (Fids, Smithson, Ward)

Poile has been ruthless in turning over assets to improve the team. We have never been saddled with a truly horrible contract. What's a DeVries compared to a Gomez, a Briere, a Richards, a Havlat, a Drury...

He built a team that was third best in the league two years ago and had it ripped out from under him, followed by uncertainty over the team's location that forced him to pay a premium just to jure Marty Gelinas, Greg DeVries, Radek Bonk and Jed Ortmeyer. The Liar-pold tax has nearly been paid in full with all of those salaries off the books at year end. Throw in Rads situation and then consider how amazing it is that we made the playoffs last year and are in the running this year. We are in rebuilding mode.


You can argue that he didn't adjust sufficiently for this season... fair point. It's true.

With the salary cap issues coming over the next two years, you could also argue that he has positioned this team to repeat with fresh faces the UFA signings of Kariya, Arnott and Dumont on very good terms- completing the rebuild on the fly.

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Old
03-05-2009, 02:39 AM
  #60
dulzhok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vopatsrash View Post
I still don’t think the Forsberg trade was a bust because they took a ballsy go-for-broke risk that was the right thing to do at the time, imo.
We didn't make it past the 1st round... it was a bust.

If I invest is some stocks, I guess I'm being ballsy... But if I lose money, it's wasn't worth it. See Forseberg trade.

Actually, Shishkanov was the draft pick acquired with the Berehowsky deadline trade. Everyone at the time said it was such a steal for Poile. People often lose sight of how few draft picks translate into NHL success. Yes, he did move Shishkanov for Sillinger, in one of the very few prospect dealings he's ever done.


Last edited by dulzhok: 03-05-2009 at 02:52 AM.
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Old
03-05-2009, 02:51 AM
  #61
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Poile's track record as our GM

FA's: "wait for them to call us"
Contract Neg: Assistant GM handles most of it (Shero did atleast)
Deadline Trading: Mixed results
Non-deadline trading: Fail
Drafting: Some success on defense, but no 30 goal scorers, 1 all-star. But, drafting is hazy thing on who gets credit. Scouting department deserves most of the credit/blame, especially after the 1st round.

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Old
03-05-2009, 06:10 AM
  #62
barrytrotzsneck
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From the sound of it, we really wanted Upshall. I'm fine with that deal not going through...he's a slightly better version of Fiddler at this point, and I'm not sure he'd even be good enough to supplant Joel Ward on the second line.

We HAD a deal to get Ponikorovsky...in fact, Sportsnet and ESPN initially claimed it was done...for two draft picks...but apparently we didn't get it in time and the league rejected it. Again, I'm okay with that because he's signed for next year, and I don't want to run the risk of another piece of dead weight being around beyond this season if he didn't work out.

What I'm a little confused about is what we possibly could have been offering for Antropov if we "got outbid" by a second round pick and another conditional pick. Or why Kotalik for a second wasn't worth the risk.

What i'm a little WORRIED about is that the team is optimistically looking at Bonk and Nichol coming back into the lineup as being a "trade-like boost". I'm actually concerned that Bonk coming back into the lineup is going to spoil the offensive success we HAVE been having, when Trotz starts to force him back on to the power play.

What i'm DISAPPOINTED by is that we didn't trade De Vries, Bonk or VK. I understand they tried to move VK and there were no takers, but still a tad bummed.

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Old
03-05-2009, 08:14 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Or you could simpifiy it further...

Outside of the deadline, Poile has made 2 trades that have made a positive impact on our team the past 11 years:

1) Trading for Cliff Ronning
2) Dunham for Zidlicky

Pretty pathetic if you ask me. You can categorize Poile's deadline deals this way:

Good: Sullivan
Decent: Sillinger, Hlavac
Busts: Witt, Forsberg, Karalahti, Zholtok, Shishkanov
Perhaps you shouldn't "simply" things too much or you might miss something.

How has Shea Weber not had a positive impact on our team?

Or Pekka Rinne, because his draft pick was a result of the Timo Helbling trade.

Because we received that draft pick as compensation from losing Ed Belfour.

But your right, Poile has only made two non-deadline deals which have had a "positive" impact on our team.

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Old
03-05-2009, 08:14 AM
  #64
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I dont understand the Poile love around here. He is decent at best and I think he is nothing short of lucky half the time. Do you guys remember this team about a month ago? or the first half of the season?

If we hit another dry spell he is going to look like a fool.

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Old
03-05-2009, 09:25 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by burnlikestars View Post
I dont understand the Poile love around here. He is decent at best and I think he is nothing short of lucky half the time. Do you guys remember this team about a month ago? or the first half of the season?

If we hit another dry spell he is going to look like a fool.
I'm not defending Poile all the way. I don't think he is that great of a GM, but my post above is simply saying that he has made more than 2 deals that have had a positive impact on our team.

I'm in the camp that Poile should have made a move yesterday to add some scoring depth. And by the looks of yesterday's deals, it could have been done without "selling the farm". Everyone's spin on their GM not making a move is always "well we didn't sell the farm", but you don't always have to sell the farm to make a deal.

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Old
03-05-2009, 10:54 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
We didn't make it past the 1st round... it was a bust.
So by that thinking, every single trade, UFA signing, and draft pick in franchise history has been a bust.

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03-05-2009, 10:55 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
I'm not defending Poile all the way. I don't think he is that great of a GM, but my post above is simply saying that he has made more than 2 deals that have had a positive impact on our team.

I'm in the camp that Poile should have made a move yesterday to add some scoring depth. And by the looks of yesterday's deals, it could have been done without "selling the farm". Everyone's spin on their GM not making a move is always "well we didn't sell the farm", but you don't always have to sell the farm to make a deal.
ok, I can get on board with that.

Im just aggravated because there is no good reason we couldnt have had Antropov or Vermette. It stinks that we didnt ship VK out, knowing we are going to scratch him, and let him free this summer with no return.




for what it is worth, I consider Forsberg a bust. We gave up a lot to watch him play a handful of games. It was very exciting at the time but the aftertaste is still bitter.

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Old
03-05-2009, 11:02 AM
  #68
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Who would I like to see us get? Ray Shero.

Apparently he was the reason that Poile was able to get over his fears and make any moves at all in the past.

It sort of cheezed me off when Pittsburgh traded for Kunitz, who seems like a solid winger to me and what Nashville really needs, and gave up defense to get him, which Nashville seemingly has a lot of.



I'm not too upset that Poile didn't make any moves though. As someone noted above he really has to deal with some of the stiffs under contract first. And since they're stiffs he can't do much using them for trades. Not really. We don't have stiffs. Just a glut of guys that seemingly are average at best. And make decent bank for being average.

However, the team seems to have something going right. I enjoy watching them play. I said I liked Ward earlier in the year, so I expect him to keep contributing. Erat will be back. Legwand is playing as if possessed. Arnott seems to be trying to shed the "soft" lable and is standing stronger inside. Sully, Dumont are playing well. Defense can be strong even though they didn't move people away from in front of the net very well last game and again had some unforced turnovers.

They're finding their stride. Poile does seem afraid of his shadow at times though and could have strengthened the team both for now and in the future. There were a couple middle/younger age forwards that went to other teams at reasonable prices. But the truth is Poile "made his bed" with his previous decisions and he's hoping to look good by Leggy, Erat, Arnott, Dumont, and Sully playing at a high level. He may be right.

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Old
03-08-2009, 03:28 PM
  #69
dulzhok
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
But your right, Poile has only made two non-deadline deals which have had a "positive" impact on our team.
You are right... Timo Helbling was traded for an 8th rd pick that ended up being Pekka Rinne. But honestly, that's more a testament to the guy who scouted Rinne in Flinland, not an amazing trade by Poile.

RE: Shero

I agree. I wish we had Shero over Poile. In 2 years, he's made more significant roster moves than Poile has in 11 years. Last year, he made the moves to add depth around Malkin and Crosby, and they made it to the Finals. In the offseason, he was limited, but still signed some low risk short-term contracts (Sykora, Satan, Fedetnko). Some worked, some didn't. But a huge difference between Poile and Shero is that Shero isn't afraid to move on (see Satan). Would Poile EVER cut a 17 goal scorer in mid-season? Never. Then, Shero gets the guts to trade from a position of strength to address a position of weakness (Whitney-Kunitz).

I don't think Poile is a bad GM, but he has some big weaknesses (passiveness, fear-of-change, lack of creativity). He's able to build up a good wealth of assets, but can't seem to make the right moves with those assets to achieve true success (aka playoff success). Again, the same reason why he was canned in Washington, we are seeing first hand in Nashville.

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03-09-2009, 06:49 AM
  #70
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I don't think Shero would have the same success in Nashville. Part of Poile's hesitation is the lack of money. If Poile had Pittsburg's resources, I think we'd have a different team.

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03-09-2009, 08:22 AM
  #71
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not to mention Shero inherited a team with Crosby already on it.

when your core is already in place, seems easier to plug in the complimentary players.

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Old
03-09-2009, 11:45 AM
  #72
dulzhok
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Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
I don't think Shero would have the same success in Nashville. Part of Poile's hesitation is the lack of money. If Poile had Pittsburg's resources, I think we'd have a different team.
Very few of his moves have cost them big money. Hossa maybe, but they only had to pay a small percentage of his salary.

We can argue about what the results would be with Shero, but I can venture this guess.. he would have made more moves and not sat on his hands the past 2 years.


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