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Is the Vermette deal growing on anyone else?

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03-05-2009, 07:17 AM
  #1
BigEyedPhish
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Is the Vermette deal growing on anyone else?

When I first heard this deal happened I was very sad and a little mad.. I thought we could have gotten more for Vermette, but now the deal is growing on me.. Even though Vermette is gone he was not a make or break player. If this trade works out it will be a STEAL for us and probably the most important trade this team has made since the Spezza deal..

That is.. if it works out...

And if it works out and Pascal Leclaire can stay healthy and play to his capabilities, we have a young franchise goalie who will become the best goalie this team has had.

We also got a 2nd round pick.. Which is what we used to draft Wiercioch last draft..

So my question is after having this trade sink in has anyone changed their mind? We could possibly be set in net in the future.. as well as on defense...

I still think we should draft a goalie this year though..

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03-05-2009, 07:23 AM
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RedWhiteBlackGold
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I didn't like it when I first heard the news that Vermette was gone, but after having it sit for awhile and thinking about the big picture I can live with this move. Leclaire when healthy is an upgrade in net, and should be for the next 2 years. Hopefully the ankle recovers well, and here's hoping that surgery fixed the problem.

Originally I was hoping it was Kelly + some going the other way, but there's always the off-season to tweak up the team a bit more. This way it also opens a spot for a prospect to come up to try and impress.

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03-05-2009, 07:29 AM
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MatthewT
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The more I think about it, the more im suprsied Murray got a 2nd round pick. It is possible that Vermette can be replaced with the 2nd round pick with time.

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03-05-2009, 07:31 AM
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Karl Cowensson
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I liked it from the moment I heard it. Its tough losing Vermette, but I doubt Murray could find anyone with more potential to be a true number now at that price.

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03-05-2009, 07:33 AM
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Goaltending is obviously the number one issue for the sens.

Murray has addressed it.

Where does that leave AUld/Elliot?

I was happpy to hear Leclaire's reaction. Good attitude.

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03-05-2009, 07:50 AM
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Cowen Time
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Sam Pollock's rule of thumb when making trades and building multiple cup winners in Montreal was to get the best player in a trade. Lower quality players are much easier to replace than upper tier ones. On that basis, it was a great trade.

Vermette is a solid player to lose, but to pick up a real #1 goalie it was worth the price. The #2 draft is a bonus.

Now we all hold our breath until next season when we see how Leclaire's rehab has come along, and try not to immediately throw him under the bus for showing a bit of rust!! (I'm dreaming though, this is Ottawa where goalie sushie is always on the menu)

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03-05-2009, 07:52 AM
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RedWhiteBlackGold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pt_mck View Post
Goaltending is obviously the number one issue for the sens.

Murray has addressed it.

Where does that leave AUld/Elliot?

I was happpy to hear Leclaire's reaction. Good attitude.
It leaves Elliot to season another year in the AHL, while Auld backs up Leclaire. Then Elliot will backup 10/11 season when Auld is off the books.

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03-05-2009, 07:54 AM
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If Leclaire ends up being a franchise goaltender this trade will be a steal of epic proportions.

Having followed most of his junior career, I have serious doubts as to whether he will ever be a franchise goalie. I hope I'm dead wrong and would be very happy to eat crow on the subject.

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03-05-2009, 08:00 AM
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MatthewT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pt_mck View Post
Goaltending is obviously the number one issue for the sens.

Murray has addressed it.

Where does that leave AUld/Elliot?

I was happpy to hear Leclaire's reaction. Good attitude.
Murray has to make a decison whether to trade Auld and let Elliott backup next year. I wouldn't mind seeing Elliott backing up while playing 25-30 games depending on Leclaires health and play.

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03-05-2009, 08:15 AM
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Jackie Treehorn
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i wasn't in love with this deal either when it happened, but the more i think about it the more i like it. It basically boils down to this, we needed goaltending help and we got a guy who's been good but had injury problems, for a guy who's good but had consistency issues. So really i ask myself who are the goalies that are available? and what will it take to get them? And the answer i come up with is, it's possible to get a better goalie but i'll have to give up a helluva lot more than Vermette, which then means i have to replace whatever i give up. Plus Leclaire (if he plays good) has a decent contract, 3.8 for a #1 goalie is not a bad deal.

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03-05-2009, 08:21 AM
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pepty
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The Sens had to do something about the goal tending. The Blue Jackets had been after Vermette for a long time, The Sens gave up a lot to pick up something that was important for the future,if Leclaire can get healthy and stay healthy that will answer a lot of questions for the Sens.

But I thought right from the start that Murray would trade Vermette and keep Neil and Kuba. It doesnt seem that Murray has ever been a fan of Vermette and always had him on the trading block whereas Neil is very much in the mold of players he likes to stock up on and overpay and Kuba had been brought to Ottawa by Murray originally.

Team speed and skil has taken a hit.

So yes the Sens needed a goalie, but they just kept more sludge on the rest of the team.

We have to hope that Leclaire is healthy and that the kids in Bingo are really ready to step up into important roles with the big team and that Chirs Kelly and Mike Fisher can carry the load down the middle.

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03-05-2009, 08:29 AM
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We traded at a time when Vermette's value was relatively high (23 points in his last 30 games or so and still a year on his deal left, so not a pending UFA), while Leclaire's was low (out for the year, for a team with a goalie of the future in place ahead of him, and in the playoff hunt).

As such, I think it was a good deal all around.

Replacing Vermette next year in our bottom six is easier than finding a potential #1 goalie, even if it is a bit of a roll of the dice. With guys like Z.Smith, Zubov and Bass stepping in, along with the likes of Winchester, Donovan, Ruutu and Donovan, we actually have good forward depth going into next year still.

And to get a 2nd rounder, well that makes it a very good deal IMO. When you think some of our former 2nd rounders include the likes of Fisher, Vermette, and last year, Wiercioch, you have to like the value of this deal, in particular given the pick might be around #45 overall in a very deep draft.

Let's just hope we don't use the 2nd on Bashirikov's brother.

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03-05-2009, 08:32 AM
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TheGeneral
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idk why you guys didn't like it....obviously it doesn't address our secondary scoring, and actaully makes it a little worse but it's not like vermette is lighting it up. he is a career under acheiver with his skills aside from his faceoff numbers.


we got a number 1 goalie, former 8th overall pick who can hopefully stay injury free and get back into form and better as he develops. plus we got a second rounder

antropov is far better than vermette and got the leafs just a second round pick plus maybe another 2nd in next years draft. murray pulled off a great deal here peeps

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03-05-2009, 08:43 AM
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BigEyedPhish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGeneral View Post
idk why you guys didn't like it....obviously it doesn't address our secondary scoring, and actaully makes it a little worse but it's not like vermette is lighting it up. he is a career under acheiver with his skills aside from his faceoff numbers.


we got a number 1 goalie, former 8th overall pick who can hopefully stay injury free and get back into form and better as he develops. plus we got a second rounder

antropov is far better than vermette and got the leafs just a second round pick plus maybe another 2nd in next years draft. murray pulled off a great deal here peeps
I think it was more having to do with saying goodbye to a homegrown player who works hard.. has been here for years.. and was visibly sad that he was traded than it had to do with the actual value of the trade.. I know I am sad because I can remember Vermette playing his first game here in Binghamton and how good he, Spezza and Bochenski were together...

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03-05-2009, 08:45 AM
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I still cannot believe we got a 2nd round pick..

I think that was added because Columbus just really did not want Leclaire's Salary...

I am kind of mad, sad, and purplexed as to how Neil wasn't traded though... or Schubert.. even for a 7th rounder or a prospect..

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03-05-2009, 09:00 AM
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Caeldan
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I still cannot believe we got a 2nd round pick..

I think that was added because Columbus just really did not want Leclaire's Salary...

I am kind of mad, sad, and purplexed as to how Neil wasn't traded though... or Schubert.. even for a 7th rounder or a prospect..
I think we should've got more actually.

Leclaire's contract is pretty terrible really, and if you listened to some other GMs around the league - having a contract extending past next year brought negative value.

I think it hurt us even more in the secondary scoring department and combined with McAmmond's departure, I think we're going to see a serious hit in our PK effectiveness. Alfie's getting too old to do PK, PP and ES - he needs to come off the PK, Ruutu's a liability more than anything on the PK... that leaves us with Fisher and Kelly for our PK.

As far as Auld and Elliot go, I'm sure that training camp will decide things - perhaps Elliot will spend another half season in the AHL, perhaps we'll actually acquire a few more goalies just so that we actually have a system again. Having Leclaire might give Murray a bit more of a position to bargain from, that or it might mean that Elliot's more likely to hold out for a one-way contract.

I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong in the long run on this deal, but initially I don't like it.

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03-05-2009, 09:08 AM
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BigEyedPhish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
I think we should've got more actually.

Leclaire's contract is pretty terrible really, and if you listened to some other GMs around the league - having a contract extending past next year brought negative value.

I think it hurt us even more in the secondary scoring department and combined with McAmmond's departure, I think we're going to see a serious hit in our PK effectiveness. Alfie's getting too old to do PK, PP and ES - he needs to come off the PK, Ruutu's a liability more than anything on the PK... that leaves us with Fisher and Kelly for our PK.

As far as Auld and Elliot go, I'm sure that training camp will decide things - perhaps Elliot will spend another half season in the AHL, perhaps we'll actually acquire a few more goalies just so that we actually have a system again. Having Leclaire might give Murray a bit more of a position to bargain from, that or it might mean that Elliot's more likely to hold out for a one-way contract.

I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong in the long run on this deal, but initially I don't like it.
Our Penalty kill will be fine.. Yes Vermette was a very good Penalty killer, but we also have players who are also very good penalty killers even young players.. (Bass, Regin...)

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03-05-2009, 09:09 AM
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I think we actually won this deal... I know Leclaire hasn't played well this year, but you just don't forget a 8 shutout season last year especially with the team that Columbus had. This year he was just unlucky with all the injuries, and Steve Mason. Everyone though the 2nd was enough for Vermette, Leclaire to me was just a bonus, that we really need in the next couple of years.

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03-05-2009, 09:09 AM
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i would have been happy just to trade him for a 2nd rounder. getting a possible franchise goalie was icing

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03-05-2009, 09:10 AM
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BigEyedPhish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
I think we should've got more actually.

Leclaire's contract is pretty terrible really, and if you listened to some other GMs around the league - having a contract extending past next year brought negative value.

I think it hurt us even more in the secondary scoring department and combined with McAmmond's departure, I think we're going to see a serious hit in our PK effectiveness. Alfie's getting too old to do PK, PP and ES - he needs to come off the PK, Ruutu's a liability more than anything on the PK... that leaves us with Fisher and Kelly for our PK.

As far as Auld and Elliot go, I'm sure that training camp will decide things - perhaps Elliot will spend another half season in the AHL, perhaps we'll actually acquire a few more goalies just so that we actually have a system again. Having Leclaire might give Murray a bit more of a position to bargain from, that or it might mean that Elliot's more likely to hold out for a one-way contract.

I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong in the long run on this deal, but initially I don't like it.
Also.. 2 months ago probably 85% of the people on these boards thought it would be impossible to get JUST a 2nd round pick for Vermette..

I would rather pay Leclaire his contract for 2 more seasons and have his potential on my team, than pay Gerber his... It is not so much Leclaire's contract that is the problem it is other players.. (Fisher/Kelly/Smith).

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03-05-2009, 09:10 AM
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I love the deal, Vermette is a great player and all, and I'm sad to see him go, but he's a second line player at BEST. Leclaire is a potential franchise goalie, and I think some of you are greatly, greatly underestimating the value that can have to a franchise. Yes he has injury concerns, but you're not gonna get a top flight, proven goaltender in this league, teams just won't give away an asset like that. The only way you're going to acquire an asset like that, short of a situation like Luongo, which only materializes once a decade maybe, is by taking a risk on somebody. Vermette is not a difference maker on a team, he is a support player, a secondary player. We also have good depth at forward, and especially at centre, and he was expendable. We dealt from a position of strength, to fill a glaring need, and got good value as well, and that is textbook asset management.

I remember a lot of people questioned the Heatley/Hossa swap at the time because of injuries, and whether or not Heatley could ever mentally be the same player again. There were some big question marks in that trade, but we took a risk and it payed off big time. If you're not willing to take any risks though and just play it safe all the time, you'll never improve as a team, thats simply a recipe to dwell in mediocrity indefinitely.

edit: and its not like we were favourites for the cup the next couple years and we're risking our window of opportunity hear anyways.

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03-05-2009, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Zillaege View Post
I love the deal, Vermette is a great player and all, and I'm sad to see him go, but he's a second line player at BEST. Leclaire is a potential franchise goalie, and I think some of you are greatly, greatly underestimating the value that can have to a franchise. Yes he has injury concerns, but you're not gonna get a top flight, proven goaltender in this league, teams just won't give away an asset like that. The only way you're going to acquire an asset like that, short of a situation like Luongo, which only materializes once a decade maybe, is by taking a risk on somebody. Vermette is not a difference maker on a team, he is a support player, a secondary player. We also have good depth at forward, and especially at centre, and he was expendable. We dealt from a position of strength, to fill a glaring need, and got good value as well, and that is textbook asset management.

I remember a lot of people questioned the Heatley/Hossa swap at the time because of injuries, and whether or not Heatley could ever mentally be the same player again. There were some big question marks in that trade, but we took a risk and it payed off big time. If you're not willing to take any risks though and just play it safe all the time, you'll never improve as a team, thats simply a recipe to dwell in mediocrity indefinitely.
If one of Elliott or Leclaire really take off next season I am sure Detroit may be knocking on our door for whoever is the odd man out.. I am willing to bet that Detroit unless they pull off a miracle draft again.. Will have to overpay for a goaltender in the near future..

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03-05-2009, 09:19 AM
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A 1st and 2nd rounder for Vermette... How can you argue against it?!

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03-05-2009, 09:25 AM
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If one of Elliott or Leclaire really take off next season I am sure Detroit may be knocking on our door for whoever is the odd man out.. I am willing to bet that Detroit unless they pull off a miracle draft again.. Will have to overpay for a goaltender in the near future..
nah they have Daniel Larsson.

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03-05-2009, 09:26 AM
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Johnny Hanson
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I love the deal, Vermette is a great player and all, and I'm sad to see him go, but he's a second line player at BEST. Leclaire is a potential franchise goalie, and I think some of you are greatly, greatly underestimating the value that can have to a franchise. Yes he has injury concerns, but you're not gonna get a top flight, proven goaltender in this league, teams just won't give away an asset like that. The only way you're going to acquire an asset like that, short of a situation like Luongo, which only materializes once a decade maybe, is by taking a risk on somebody. Vermette is not a difference maker on a team, he is a support player, a secondary player. We also have good depth at forward, and especially at centre, and he was expendable. We dealt from a position of strength, to fill a glaring need, and got good value as well, and that is textbook asset management.

I remember a lot of people questioned the Heatley/Hossa swap at the time because of injuries, and whether or not Heatley could ever mentally be the same player again. There were some big question marks in that trade, but we took a risk and it payed off big time. If you're not willing to take any risks though and just play it safe all the time, you'll never improve as a team, thats simply a recipe to dwell in mediocrity indefinitely.

edit: and its not like we were favourites for the cup the next couple years and we're risking our window of opportunity hear anyways.
good post, completely agree

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