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[PHI/PHX] Scottie Upshall + '11 2nd for Daniel Carcillo

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Old
03-05-2009, 07:08 AM
  #76
Blatherblah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
That's not the point.

Upshall basically equals Carcillo. The draft pick makes it overpayment, whether its 3 years from now or not.
I suspect the 2nd is to pay Phoenix to take a wee bit more salary back, but I agree it still seems high.

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03-05-2009, 07:10 AM
  #77
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Anyway, the trade is pretty much a wash. I loved Carcillo, and he actually brought some entertainment to this god foresaken excuse for a hockey club. That said, the writing was pretty much on the wall for him. He's got decent skills, but he either plays with the after burners on, or in the granny lane. He has not managed to find a middle ground, which ultimately led to this trade. Last season, he was too over the top and earned himself a ticket to the minors. To begin the season, the coaching staff effectively neutered him, and he was invisible. Which earned him healthy scratches. So, he went right back to his bone-headed, uncontrollable ways. In turn, earning more healthy scratches. I knew he was on the way out. It's good, though, that they acquired a guy like Upshall for him. They'll need fan favorites, when they're losing everynight.

A 2011 2nd round pick is just so worthless. This is an even-up trade, and one that I can understand, while not be totally hyped about.

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Old
03-05-2009, 07:40 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
A 2011 2nd round pick is just so worthless. This is an even-up trade, and one that I can understand, while not be totally hyped about.
Well, I can see you point. 2nd round picks are worthless to the Flyers. We've picked in the 2nd round just twice in the last 10 years - one year we picked 3 times basically on Clarke's admission that he was too lazy to trade them.

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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
You beat me to it!

People are hating on Carcillo just because he's not Scottie Upshall, I think.

YOU ALL WILL LOVE CARCILLO AND FORGET WE EVER HAD SCOTTIE UPSHALL OR A 2ND ROUNDER.
OK, so I didn't look up the ice time, only because all I keep hearing is how Gretzky benched him for taking dumb penalties. At least Upshall took penalties basically on his energy..much more acceptable penalties.


The issue isn't liking Carcillo -- I'll like you if you win. If you come in here and do dumb ****...well...he will still be loved because a lot of the Eagles fans don't really know much better, he could wrap someone of the head with his stick and be hailed a hero and curse out the refs, but it's the principle of what we gave up. When you're totally capped out, asset management is paramount. This isn't a trade the Flyers should have been desperate to make.

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Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
I'm sorry I have to tell you this, GKJ, but you are a Negative Nancy.


Let's see how this trade works. I don't think this is a trade that can be assessed right off the bat. Holmer has done a few convoluted trades that can't be judged on face value. Alberts has been hated right off the bat but I think he has done a decent job and does what he is payed for. Carle was also questioned but he also worked out decently.
The Alberts trade is just one reason we were put in the position we were in. The Alberts trade wasn't made because of his ability...the guy was hanging by a thread on the Bruins roster. That trade was made out of panic - and that is not ok.

I'm being negative Nancy because the moves Paul Holmgren has made, basically since August of 2007, have drawn due heavy criticism. All I hear all this talk about fringe guys we bring in who are 'born to be Flyers' and 'we've had our eye on this guy for a long time.' You can't win that way. It's been proven. They're 'born to wear orange and black,' well, when was the last time a team wearing orange and black won the Stanley Cup? And if so, why do I want these players here? I don't want players born to play for the Flyers, I want winners. Winners will be loved in this town just the same.

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Old
03-05-2009, 08:10 AM
  #79
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man, that interview with upshall is really upsetting. scottie clearly loved this city and this team. gah, i'm going to miss him.

carcillo is going to have huge shoes to fill as far as i'm concerned.

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03-05-2009, 08:13 AM
  #80
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I hope Upshall comes back later as a UFA or something. He was born to be a Flyer

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03-05-2009, 08:24 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
I hope Upshall comes back later as a UFA or something. He was born to be a Flyer
hah, i agree, but the small part of me that is a realist says that that might not necessarily be the best thing for this team when he becomes a UFA. wonder how much he's resigning for, maybe pick him back up during the offseason

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03-05-2009, 09:11 AM
  #82
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i haven't read every post on this thread but what a shame...the cap can really corner a team. Scotty was a fan favorite, PHX is lucky to have this guy.

Carcillo on the other hand...let's just say i'm not a fan of Cote so i like adding Carcillo and shedding enough cap for a little bit of wiggle room for the home stretch. I don't get the 2nd round pick though...overpayment IMO.

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03-05-2009, 09:29 AM
  #83
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The flyers had carcillo last year and traded him. His name is ben eager. They both have some skill, they both can hit, both can fight, eager is a better skater I dont really have a problem with the trade as upshall is a dime a dozen player when you really look at it.upshall doesn’t =carcillo has imo upshall has peaked and is a 10-15 goal scorer. Carcillo has some upside The big question for me is how stevens will use him. Will he bench him the first time he makes a mistake? We all know he like to make an example of certain people, will carcillo fall into that group? I little confidence stevens and staff will help develop his game or use him properly. Downie, eager all got shipped out and they are all similar to carcillo. Not the same but very similar. Hopefully playing against the team that drafted him 8x a year will make him take a run at crosby every game Add the penalty league leader to the most penalized team, interesting logic. A second for 400k in cap room is unreal. Wasting a 6th round pick on mclaren who will never play is also a waste of assets.

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Old
03-05-2009, 09:35 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Flyers haven't won since 1974. 'Typical Flyers' don't win Stanley Cups anymore.
Yes, but it doesn't mean the flyer faithful as a whole don't continue to beat the 'Broad Street Bullies' drum.

They will love this kid.

I just watched that video and I feel for Scotty. He is leaving a team that has a lot going for it, and who plays in a rabid market to a team that is going to miss the playoffs and play to a, well, less than full building. At this point, however, it likely wouldn't matter where he was being traded to, it is more about leaving the flyers than where he is going.

I am sure he will get over it, but his heart will be in philly for awhile, just as RJ Umberger's was. It took RJ awhile to get over being traded as well, but eventually he settled in and is doing great.


Last edited by hashmarks: 03-05-2009 at 09:55 AM.
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Old
03-05-2009, 10:20 AM
  #85
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I don't know if this was said before in this thread, but I was watching the TSN live-feed and they said that Carcillo was like Downie but a better skater. That made me worry that Stevens won't use him properly and we'll give up on him - plus it feels that we're just getting players who are the "born Flyers" rather than players who could actually help the team in the long run (as said before). Another thing they said, and I think we all pretty much know this, is that picks are extremely important now in a cap world. Including the 2nd round pick really leaves me feeling that we could have done more with the pick (like use it to draft a goalie).

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Old
03-05-2009, 10:31 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
The flyers had carcillo last year and traded him. His name is ben eager. They both have some skill, they both can hit, both can fight, eager is a better skater I dont really have a problem with the trade as upshall is a dime a dozen player when you really look at it.upshall doesn’t =carcillo has imo upshall has peaked and is a 10-15 goal scorer. Carcillo has some upside The big question for me is how stevens will use him. Will he bench him the first time he makes a mistake? We all know he like to make an example of certain people, will carcillo fall into that group? I little confidence stevens and staff will help develop his game or use him properly. Downie, eager all got shipped out and they are all similar to carcillo. Not the same but very similar. Hopefully playing against the team that drafted him 8x a year will make him take a run at crosby every game Add the penalty league leader to the most penalized team, interesting logic. A second for 400k in cap room is unreal. Wasting a 6th round pick on mclaren who will never play is also a waste of assets.
Carcillo never got beat-up by a 50 year old man ( Roberts)

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03-05-2009, 11:15 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
man, that interview with upshall is really upsetting. scottie clearly loved this city and this team. gah, i'm going to miss him.

carcillo is going to have huge shoes to fill as far as i'm concerned.
Dude thats the truth right there. you could see he was gettig emotional towards the end. any chance that 2nd rder is payment for stashing uppy until the ned of the season and he becomes rfa?

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03-05-2009, 12:01 PM
  #88
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Scottie will be missed because he was a fan favorite obviously. But the guy was a 6th overall pick by Nashville a few years ago. How many first round picks do we have on this team? Carter, Richards, Coburn, Parent, Lupul, even Giroux and all of those guys are much better than Upshall. This is one deal that won't bite us like the Williams and Fedotenko trades did.

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03-05-2009, 12:07 PM
  #89
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The Flyers must have thought "How can we take even MORE unnecessary penalties? Hmm maybe I'll make a call to Phoenix."

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03-05-2009, 12:32 PM
  #90
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PHX wins this deal

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03-05-2009, 02:01 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
The flyers had carcillo last year and traded him. His name is ben eager. They both have some skill, they both can hit, both can fight, eager is a better skater I dont really have a problem with the trade as upshall is a dime a dozen player when you really look at it.upshall doesn’t =carcillo has imo upshall has peaked and is a 10-15 goal scorer. Carcillo has some upside The big question for me is how stevens will use him. Will he bench him the first time he makes a mistake? We all know he like to make an example of certain people, will carcillo fall into that group? I little confidence stevens and staff will help develop his game or use him properly. Downie, eager all got shipped out and they are all similar to carcillo. Not the same but very similar. Hopefully playing against the team that drafted him 8x a year will make him take a run at crosby every game Add the penalty league leader to the most penalized team, interesting logic. A second for 400k in cap room is unreal. Wasting a 6th round pick on mclaren who will never play is also a waste of assets.
Helps to not think of it as a 2nd for 400k, think of it as a 2nd to insure Giroux has a spot in this lineup the rest of the year. Sucks that that's the position we were in but that's the reality of it.

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03-05-2009, 02:12 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
Dude thats the truth right there. you could see he was gettig emotional towards the end. any chance that 2nd rder is payment for stashing uppy until the ned of the season and he becomes rfa?
i wish, but i doubt it. we'd still need to compensate phoenix when he becomes an RFA so it's even less likely.

as a total homer, i tend to hope ex-players don't do well when they leave the team, but with scottie, i hope he hits a tear and takes his game to another level. i wish the best of success for him.

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Old
03-05-2009, 02:26 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
11:59 Average time on ice for Carcillo and a 13:12 Average time on ice for Upshall isn't a huge huge difference.
That doesn't seem like a lot but over 55 games Upshall has over 65 min more time on the ice than Carcillo.

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03-05-2009, 09:47 PM
  #94
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Yes, but it doesn't mean the flyer faithful as a whole don't continue to beat the 'Broad Street Bullies' drum.

They will love this kid.
You missed the point.

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Old
03-07-2009, 11:54 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
i wish, but i doubt it. we'd still need to compensate phoenix when he becomes an RFA so it's even less likely.

as a total homer, i tend to hope ex-players don't do well when they leave the team, but with scottie, i hope he hits a tear and takes his game to another level. i wish the best of success for him.
upshall if hes qualified would be a 3ed rd compensation. unless hes really looking to make some bank in which case this deal isn all that bad.

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03-07-2009, 12:11 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by ASV 27 View Post
That doesn't seem like a lot but over 55 games Upshall has over 65 min more time on the ice than Carcillo.
Carcillo gets more PIMs from fights and was in Gretzky's doghouse (healthy scratch).

You haven't said anything we don't already know

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Old
03-08-2009, 02:25 PM
  #97
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Carcillo has a huge following here in Phoenix. Probally had the second most number of Jerseys in the stands after Doan.

I never saw him lose a fight. He may not have won them all; but I never saw him lose.

His main problem, besides not scoring this year, was that he let his emotions get the better of him. With 10 minutes left in a 1 goal game or tie game, he was still trying to pick fights to get back at someone, resulting in penalty (or 2 if the refs added an unsportsmanlike). That stuff drove Gretzky crazy. I never understood why Gretz would even put him on the ice in the third period of a one goal game. Odds were better that he'd give the other team the winning power play than score or get into a fight with even penalties.

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Old
03-08-2009, 02:29 PM
  #98
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He had a very good game last night against Nashville. Had a huge hit that led to a fight, which he won.

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