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Old
08-27-2004, 07:35 AM
  #26
dawgbone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83Schremp44
"We are planning for post 2004 success"....

Well the time is now...We've been told to wait and wait and wait until 2004 to start having a winning hockey team. Look what we have...An unproven #1 goalie...No #1 center...No #1 stud dman...(*note* I really like Brewer but he is not the #1 guy we need to be a contender)...When your GM slowly lets all the pieces of the puzzle fall off the table and helplessly watch the dog eat them, you know you arn't going anywhere soon....Let me guess after this we will be hearing "We are planning for post 20050 success."
We've got 3 very young, very talented centres in the system.

We have 2 very unique goaltenders, one who relies on athletecism, one who relies on size and intelligence.

We have 2 incredibly talented defensemen ready to break out and contribute.

Does adding a #1 centre now mean much if it costs you alot, and he needs to be replaced in 3 years?

Or a #1 defenceman, which is the most over-rated thing in hockey right now? If you have 5 guys who can play 20 minutes or more, having a guy who can eat up 25-30 minutes is a litte unneccesary.

Let's get a tad realistic. The new CBA isn't even in place yet. It's pretty moronic to expect the change the instant it happens. There are a lot of very good pieces in place for this team right now, but it's still going to take 3 or 4 years for this team to truely be a contender.

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08-27-2004, 07:37 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Once again I feel like a voice in the wilderness. The problem is not losing Nedved - it's letting Calgary get Langkow. Note to Lowe: you not only compete by improving your own team - you can also stop other teams from getting better by beating them to the punch on certain assets. Calgary played a major role in not only allowing the dogs to sign Nedved - but they also scooped Langkow - all from under Lowe's nose. Pretty pathetic job of GMing IMO.
Letting Calgary get Langkow?

please asiaoil... it's Barnett we are talking about. I'm willing to bet $20 that he in no way even attempted to shop Langkow around, and instead focused immediately on Gauthier.

It's tough not to let 2 teams make a trade when one team is only interested in the player on the team they traded with.

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08-27-2004, 08:20 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
We've got 3 very young, very talented centres in the system.

We have 2 very unique goaltenders, one who relies on athletecism, one who relies on size and intelligence.

We have 2 incredibly talented defensemen ready to break out and contribute.

Does adding a #1 centre now mean much if it costs you alot, and he needs to be replaced in 3 years?

Or a #1 defenceman, which is the most over-rated thing in hockey right now? If you have 5 guys who can play 20 minutes or more, having a guy who can eat up 25-30 minutes is a litte unneccesary.

Let's get a tad realistic. The new CBA isn't even in place yet. It's pretty moronic to expect the change the instant it happens. There are a lot of very good pieces in place for this team right now, but it's still going to take 3 or 4 years for this team to truely be a contender.
I agree. Let's get realistic.

We may have 3 centres in the system but right now, with York (a winger), Horcoff, Reasoner (injury status?) and Stoll the centre position is a disaster.

Lynch and Woywitka (I'm assuming this is to whom you are referring) have played 2 NHL games between them. Their contributions are likely to be minute until they get several years experience at the NHL level.

The goaltending will be an improvement over Salo but will it be good enough to get us into the playoffs? Not IMO. It could do if we were stronger elsewhere but we're not, in fact we are worse off than we were when we missed the playoffs.

3 or 4 years to build a contender? A contender for what - the playoffs or the Cup. Let's get realistic. We aren't going to build anything that we can keep. Comrie and Nedved are gone, not because we didn't want them but because they didn't want to be here. As long as Lowe remains focused on the bottom line, and that is his responsibility, we are doomed to mediocrity. Let's face it, Oilers attendance is excellent which proves we don't care what the on ice package is, we just want hockey.

3 or 4 years from now it will still be the same story - we're building for the future. One can only hope that 4 years from now, when you think we will have built something, we haven't missed the playoffs 4 of the last 7 years.

 
Old
08-27-2004, 08:34 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
I agree. Let's get realistic.

We may have 3 centres in the system but right now, with York (a winger), Horcoff, Reasoner (injury status?) and Stoll the centre position is a disaster.
I understand that... but the fact of the matter is, the Oilers have been addressing needs. The prospect system was a complete disaster, especially up the middle. They have addressed that part because they were able to rather easily. Finding a #1 centre, under the current economic climate, is a lot different. A) the costs are higher, and B) any future salary restrictions are currently not known.

Quote:
Lynch and Woywitka (I'm assuming this is to whom you are referring) have played 2 NHL games between them. Their contributions are likely to be minute until they get several years experience at the NHL level.
But once again, the system was completely void of any decent young defensemen. Lowe, once again, has addressed that, and now we are almost at the point where we have too many NHL calibre defensemen. It was a pressing need in the organization, and it has been dealt with.

Quote:
The goaltending will be an improvement over Salo but will it be good enough to get us into the playoffs? Not IMO. It could do if we were stronger elsewhere but we're not, in fact we are worse off than we were when we missed the playoffs.
I am not sure how... if we keep Smyth away from centre, we are no worse than last year. I'm not sure I feel Nedved was as important to the home stretch last year as others do (after all, it had started before Nedved even got here). If our PK doesn't have a disaterous start like it did last year, we will be a playoff team.

Quote:
3 or 4 years to build a contender? A contender for what - the playoffs or the Cup. Let's get realistic. We aren't going to build anything that we can keep. Comrie and Nedved are gone, not because we didn't want them but because they didn't want to be here. As long as Lowe remains focused on the bottom line, and that is his responsibility, we are doomed to mediocrity. Let's face it, Oilers attendance is excellent which proves we don't care what the on ice package is, we just want hockey.
Common sense says that if there is a league wide bottom line, Lowe won't have to focus specifically on the teams bottom line anymore. That's why there is this threat of missing a season or two.

As for the attendance, I would like to think people prefer to watch the hockey, than look at the end score. The Oilers have continued to play an uptempo, exciting brand of hockey. As long as they continue doing this, most fans will come back.

Quote:
3 or 4 years from now it will still be the same story - we're building for the future. One can only hope that 4 years from now, when you think we will have built something, we haven't missed the playoffs 4 of the last 7 years.
If that's the case, then Lowe should be fired. I don't know how you can think it will be the same story, when the league economics will be (because if they aren't, we don't have to worry about the Edmonton Oilers anymore), completely different. Now it's mostly finances that are holding the team back. When those restraints aren't as tight, or they will at least be as tight everywhere else, it will be a whole new ball game.

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08-27-2004, 08:36 AM
  #30
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Nedved DIDN'T sign for less

Quote:
Originally Posted by SerbianEagle
I too hate having to backtrack, but Nedved signing for less does swing the pendulum back to the middle. I didn't know about it either until a few moments ago.
According to Jim Matheson in the Journal Nedved signed 3 years $8.7M while the Oilers last offer was 3 years $8.25M. Nedved's gone to the Dogs

Another Loweball?

 
Old
08-27-2004, 09:14 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
According to Jim Matheson in the Journal Nedved signed 3 years $8.7M while the Oilers last offer was 3 years $8.25M. Nedved's gone to the Dogs

Another Loweball?
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...27/605017.html

Per Brownlee, looks as though the Oil were a little used by the Nedved camp in order to attract another team (US Team). Once the Phoenix offer was on the table, Lowe had no warning or chance to counter. He was informed by Gretz a few minutes before the signing became public. Bronwlee also alludes to the fact Veronika may have had more to do with this than is being let on.

Something smells here.

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Old
08-27-2004, 09:21 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
According to Jim Matheson in the Journal Nedved signed 3 years $8.7M while the Oilers last offer was 3 years $8.25M. Nedved's gone to the Dogs

Another Loweball?
Considering Nedved's asking price was $3.5 mil... Lowe countered with his offer of $8.25. Lowe would have matched the $8.7, and if that was all Nedved wanted, then I am sure his agent could have put that offer on the table, and the Oilers would have signed it.

The fact that he was asking for $3.5, and signed for less than $500 k more than the Oilers offered him (without even looking back to see what they would do to counter), leads to a pretty logical conclusion that Nedved was only going to be in Edmonton at his price... which was roughly $3.5 mil.

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08-27-2004, 10:34 AM
  #33
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Look through the facts

If we decide to look through the facts that we have heard, lets see what comes up.
Nedved's agent comes last week to NEGOGIATE a contract for Nedved to play in Edmonton. No one here on this board knows the specific, but both news sources are stating that they were one million a part. The Journal says that they were quoting 8.25 million for 3 years, and Lowe would not budge. It even went into specifics saying that because they were unwilling to budge that Nedved would seek other offers and might not give the Oiler's the opportunity to match. Guess what Lowe said, fine I am willing to take that risk. THose are facts....

So think of it this way. You are going to buy a car and one dealer says he is unwilling to budge of his price, and unwilling at all to negogiate. It is his price, or its a no go.

Well I know what I would do, I would go and find a similar car. Not ever go back to the dealer that was unwilling to negogiate. And settle somewhere.

Now we can blame this on his wife. We can claim that he never wanted to be here, and what he tells the media is all lies. Or you can look at life from his shoes, and understand how pissed off he must have been to have put off this decision, possibly fight with his wife over the location, and then head to Edmonton to NEGOGIATE a contract. And when he arrives here, have the Oilers saying this is the offer, take it or leave.

I was hoping that if this stupid low ball happened, people would realize that our current management cannot negogiate offers. We have lost Marchant(the year before we qualified him at less, when he wanted a long term under 2 million), we low balled Comrie with 1 million a year to play as a first line center(when Georges got 1.45), and we low balled Nedved at 2.6 million a year as a first line center. Now go tell Nedved as a first line center you only deserve 300K more than Steve Staios, and this whole city will be on your ass to put the puck in the net and fix your powerplay.

My rant could continue, but in the end its pointless cause everyone continues to defend lowe, and let this team fail. The sad thing about this all, is at least Calgary will take on salary to sign good players. It makes me sick......

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08-27-2004, 10:45 AM
  #34
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Bauer... the probelm is we don't know if Nedved was willing to move down from his offer.

If Nedved says it will take $10 mil over 3 years to get him to sign in Edmonton, and Lowe counters with $8.25, and Nedved doesn't blink and stays firm on his $10mil, is there a difference?

I am sure Lowe could have gotten the deal done for 3 years and $3.33 mil per season... but that isn't really this issue. Nedved seemed just as unlikely to budge as the Oilers did, and when he signs for what amounts to peanuts more, it's pretty obvious that he'd play for Edmonton at a higher salary than he would other places. And that's fine, he's a UFA, he's allowed that decision.

I mean Nedved wanted a 3 year deal. So things like 2 + an option weren't likely to get him signed, so the Oilers gave him his 3 year offer, but at less money per year because of concerns they had (which were warranted based on Nedved's history).

Buy the way... your car analogy is a little off. Nedved is selling the Car, not Lowe/Barnett. I don't know about you, but I'd always check back with the other offers after someone makes me one that I think I'd take... it's a smart business practice.

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08-27-2004, 10:49 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Now I'm going on a rant and it's about this stupid post. I'm really getting sick of all this name calling. There is no need to call anyone names. Kevin Lowe is not an over-rated pathetic GM or Garbage. How can KL be over-rated when he's the most criticized GM in NHL history.

Petr Nedved signed for less in Phoenix than Edmonton was offering. To me that tells me that Veronika had something to do with where Nedved signed.

What's really frustrating is that Lowe has gotten criticized for every trade he's made since become GM. When Hamrlik got traded, fans wanted him fired. Slats was never criticized this much when he was GM. Lowe has had this crap thrown at him for the third time.

When Carter and Niinimaa were traded, Lowe recieved death threats. I can see the same thing happening again.
The proof is in the results, my friend. and the Oiler's results the last few years have been nothing but pathetic. it's time for the fans and espectially Lowe to realize that to the average millionaire hockey player, Edmonton is a wasteland. You think they actually care about "hockey's heartland" Let's take some stock:

1. Frozen wasteland
2. Subpar team, year after freaking year
3. Will never seriously contend for the cup

Why would anyone in his right mind want to play here? the only reason I can see is if Lowe offers a slightly larger contract then market value. Let's face it, Edm is waaaaay down on the list of places to play. If we hardball our players that really takes away the only chance we have of attracting quality.....

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08-27-2004, 10:50 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bauer83
I was hoping that if this stupid low ball happened, people would realize that our current management cannot negogiate offers. We have lost Marchant(the year before we qualified him at less, when he wanted a long term under 2 million),
Where did you find this from. Marchant would have signed a long term deal for just under $2mil per season? Are you kidding? Marchant needed 1 year to cash in as a UFA, and he'd have to be a moron to settle for a long term deal @ just under $2mil... which he wasn't.

Quote:
we low balled Comrie with 1 million a year to play as a first line center(when Georges got 1.45),
You mean after Comrie had Lowe over a barrel and got over $7mil out of him on his rookie contract? Seems to me Lowe just used the leverage on his side this time to reverse the tables from the first 3 years.

Quote:
and we low balled Nedved at 2.6 million a year as a first line center. Now go tell Nedved as a first line center you only deserve 300K more than Steve Staios, and this whole city will be on your ass to put the puck in the net and fix your powerplay.
Look at Nedved's point totals, and compare them to other centres in the league... $2.6-2.8 mil was about right based on Nedved's Production over the past several seasons.

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08-27-2004, 10:51 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Bauer... the probelm is we don't know if Nedved was willing to move down from his offer.

If Nedved says it will take $10 mil over 3 years to get him to sign in Edmonton, and Lowe counters with $8.25, and Nedved doesn't blink and stays firm on his $10mil, is there a difference?

I am sure Lowe could have gotten the deal done for 3 years and $3.33 mil per season... but that isn't really this issue. Nedved seemed just as unlikely to budge as the Oilers did, and when he signs for what amounts to peanuts more, it's pretty obvious that he'd play for Edmonton at a higher salary than he would other places. And that's fine, he's a UFA, he's allowed that decision.

I mean Nedved wanted a 3 year deal. So things like 2 + an option weren't likely to get him signed, so the Oilers gave him his 3 year offer, but at less money per year because of concerns they had (which were warranted based on Nedved's history).

Buy the way... your car analogy is a little off. Nedved is selling the Car, not Lowe/Barnett. I don't know about you, but I'd always check back with the other offers after someone makes me one that I think I'd take... it's a smart business practice.
Well your a right about the car analogy being a little off, but the meaning behind it still sticks. And as much as it would have been good business to go back, I will never go back to salesman that treats me like he does not need my business unless it is at his cost.

And as we said we do not know exactly what happened, but still this to me was our guy no matter how you looked at it. But if sources were right about the 3 year 8.25, and they were a million apart, where does that put us. 9.25 million. That is still more than phoenix, but it is less attractive for his marriage situation. And to me, 3 years at 9.25 would have been amazing. I can't see us getting a first line centre for under 3 million a year unless he is labelled damage goods. I also believe that Lowe has a past of low-balling offers, and not being overly open to negogiations. But those are just my opinions.

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08-27-2004, 10:51 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky83
Why is Lowe getting blamed for everything except the kitchen sink? Nedved didn't want to be here and used the Oilers for a contract. He signed for less with the Coyotes than the Oilers offered him. How is this Lowe's fault?
Lowe is being blamed, because despite all the excuses, he DOESN'T/CAN'T get it done. This team has had several problems in the last 2 seasons (centre/goaltending) and Lowe CAN NOT seem to even make a half decent attempt at solving the problem.

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08-27-2004, 10:55 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggyman
first of all, your thread is stupid, you know **** about being a gm, you just assume this was all Lowes fault, because like many Oilers fan, need someone in the organization to blame.

Why the hell do people think of Nedved as our saviour or something, he came in during a hotstreak, and those are the only games he played. You will see on Phoenix, Nedved is not a PPG player, yes he has a good shot, but I dont' see much beyone that.

Don't bash Lowe when you have no clue whats going on, you think you know all from what you hear in the media. You don't know what else he has lined up, he clearly said that he will have a Centre before the season starts. It looks like August to me, and we don't even know when next season will be. Seriously, shut the hell up, do you feel better about yourself bashing someone from the organization every chance you get?
You don't seem to get it. I don't care anymore about the specifics of why or how things didn't go our way. All I know is Lowe can't get it done.

Talking about Lindros? Can't get it done
Talking about the #1,2,3 picks in a draft? Can't get it done
Talking about Nedved? Can't get it done

I've heard too many stories by Lowe, about what he's attempted to do to improve the team, but not enough stories about successful moves.

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08-27-2004, 10:58 AM
  #40
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[QUOTE=dawgbone]Where did you find this from. Marchant would have signed a long term deal for just under $2mil per season? Are you kidding? Marchant needed 1 year to cash in as a UFA, and he'd have to be a moron to settle for a long term deal @ just under $2mil... which he wasn't.

This was the part that was talked about in Marchant's coming out party. We gave him that qualify salary, under the league minimum (1.1 million correct me if I am wrong) because we figured we had no more use for him. I personally believed he would have been a good 2ND line centre. He is most certainly not first line, but he played his heart out in Edmonton and wanted to stay (again just from what I read). But there was no possible way we would sign him to around 2 million a year for long term. Some people agree, I most certainly do not. We are paying our fighter 1.45 million not to fight. We pay steve staios - 3rd of 4th defenseman, 2.3 million. I might be placing too much value in the center position, but that is just cause that is what we were missing the most. Marchant wanted to sign here two years ago long term, and we just said not for much more than 1 million a year. At that point nobody cared, except for the few of us marchant fans. He was good for forty points a year, and that is good for a second liner center who is defonsively responsible on OUR team.....

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08-27-2004, 11:02 AM
  #41
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[QUOTE=Bauer83]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
This was the part that was talked about in Marchant's coming out party. We gave him that qualify salary, under the league minimum (1.1 million correct me if I am wrong) because we figured we had no more use for him. I personally believed he would have been a good 2ND line centre. He is most certainly not first line, but he played his heart out in Edmonton and wanted to stay (again just from what I read). But there was no possible way we would sign him to around 2 million a year for long term. Some people agree, I most certainly do not. We are paying our fighter 1.45 million not to fight. We pay steve staios - 3rd of 4th defenseman, 2.3 million. I might be placing too much value in the center position, but that is just cause that is what we were missing the most. Marchant wanted to sign here two years ago long term, and we just said not for much more than 1 million a year. At that point nobody cared, except for the few of us marchant fans. He was good for forty points a year, and that is good for a second liner center who is defonsively responsible on OUR team.....
1.1? Marchant was paid $1.45... if you can't get that detail right, I am not sure how you can be right about him wanting just under $2mil for a long term deal.

It would have cost about $2.3-2.5 to get Marchant on a long term deal. And don't forget, at the time, we had Comrie, Marchant, Reasoner, Horcoff and Stoll... who were all still very young and starting to come into their own. Marchant at $2.3 mil was a waste of money, because we had guys who could do the same job for a fraction of the price.

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08-27-2004, 11:05 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
You don't seem to get it. I don't care anymore about the specifics of why or how things didn't go our way. All I know is Lowe can't get it done.

Talking about Lindros? Can't get it done
Talking about the #1,2,3 picks in a draft? Can't get it done
Talking about Nedved? Can't get it done

I've heard too many stories by Lowe, about what he's attempted to do to improve the team, but not enough stories about successful moves.
Hmmm... Dvorak/Cross for Carter/Pisa ring a bell?

or how about Torres/Isbister for Niinimaa/2nd?

And I don't know, but I have never heard Lowe talk about the top 3 picks in the draft... NEVER. The one time he made a push was to pick Pitkanen, but Tampa took the Flyers deal instead. That was the only time I've heard of Lowe seriously making a pitch. He always talks about looking to move up in the draft, but every GM does that, and most don't.

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08-27-2004, 11:12 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
Lowe is being blamed, because despite all the excuses, he DOESN'T/CAN'T get it done. This team has had several problems in the last 2 seasons (centre/goaltending) and Lowe CAN NOT seem to even make a half decent attempt at solving the problem.
And your timetable to solve these problems is when?

Now?

That's nice, but that isn't necessarily Lowe's.

With the new CBA, there is a chance that Lowe will get a chance to solve a bunch of the teams problems at a fraction of the cost that it would cost to solve them right now. If there is cost certainty, and teams need to unload some of their higher priced talent, Lowe is in a pretty good position to make a move for them.

It's not a complicated thought process. The league is going to be changing, so the smart thing to do is what for the change, and see what you can do then. Sure the doors look to be closing now, but if a new CBA makes some drastic changes, Lowe could have the option of making even better moves than he could have even hoped to make right now.

Answer this... how pissed off would you be at Lowe if he signed Nedved to a deal worth $3.5 mil per season, then a change in the CBA forced a team like Tampa to have to trade a guy like Vinney, or Richards... and because of the signing, Lowe can't make the deal to grab one of those guys?

Now is the most important time to be patient people. I'm sure there have been lots of deals that could have been made, but were not made for the simple reason that the price wasn't right.

It's no sense being patient and waiting until a new CBA comes around, if you are going to jump the gun just before a new one is agreed to.

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08-27-2004, 11:15 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
1.1? Marchant was paid $1.45... if you can't get that detail right, I am not sure how you can be right about him wanting just under $2mil for a long term deal.

It would have cost about $2.3-2.5 to get Marchant on a long term deal. And don't forget, at the time, we had Comrie, Marchant, Reasoner, Horcoff and Stoll... who were all still very young and starting to come into their own. Marchant at $2.3 mil was a waste of money, because we had guys who could do the same job for a fraction of the price.
Of course now that I looked back it was 1.54, but your memory is off to as it appears.

http://www.canoe.ca/Slam030701/nhl_edm3-sun.html

But no matter how you look at it he low-balled him. It is fine, and Marchat got a beautiful raise of 2.9 million a year. Good for him. Comrie hit us hard at then first signing, and used the system to a tee. Which sucked for us, but his falling out had nothing to do with money. He signed this year for 2 million a year, and personally I would have paid that. But that again is a debate that I will not touch anymore with a ten foot pole. Anyways, I still do not like the way negogiations seem to go with lowe. That is the bottom line, his trades fine. His ability to actually spend money to make money, and put this team into the 5th and 6th position, has failed. He has had a very decent team the last three years, who are always missing one or two things. Congrats on the trade with Salo, fixed problem one. Now fix problem two soon, as I figured Nedved was the one, and that is no longer an option.

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08-27-2004, 02:38 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Bauer83
Of course now that I looked back it was 1.54, but your memory is off to as it appears.

http://www.canoe.ca/Slam030701/nhl_edm3-sun.html

But no matter how you look at it he low-balled him. It is fine, and Marchat got a beautiful raise of 2.9 million a year. Good for him. Comrie hit us hard at then first signing, and used the system to a tee. Which sucked for us, but his falling out had nothing to do with money. He signed this year for 2 million a year, and personally I would have paid that. But that again is a debate that I will not touch anymore with a ten foot pole. Anyways, I still do not like the way negogiations seem to go with lowe. That is the bottom line, his trades fine. His ability to actually spend money to make money, and put this team into the 5th and 6th position, has failed. He has had a very decent team the last three years, who are always missing one or two things. Congrats on the trade with Salo, fixed problem one. Now fix problem two soon, as I figured Nedved was the one, and that is no longer an option.
One more thing to remember,
Edmonton is the most tax friendly outpost in all of the NHL, (probably pro sports), and the Oilers and the oilers accounted for that in the offer they made, he would have been taking home the same amount anyway.

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08-27-2004, 02:38 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
Hmmm... Dvorak/Cross for Carter/Pisa ring a bell?

or how about Torres/Isbister for Niinimaa/2nd?

And I don't know, but I have never heard Lowe talk about the top 3 picks in the draft... NEVER. The one time he made a push was to pick Pitkanen, but Tampa took the Flyers deal instead. That was the only time I've heard of Lowe seriously making a pitch. He always talks about looking to move up in the draft, but every GM does that, and most don't.

Really, though, while not necessarily bad trades, are basically lateral moves. My point is that Lowe has become an expert of paying lip service, trying to convince the fans that he will make a major/significant move and having it fall through. I, for one am tired of staying the course. I'm tired of quick fix, secondary solutions. I want him to try something big, at least we'll drown next season having TRIED something. And no, I don't think Oates/Dopita/Horcoff were really anything but an attempt to pull the wool over the fan's eyes

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08-27-2004, 02:43 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
And your timetable to solve these problems is when?

Now?

That's nice, but that isn't necessarily Lowe's.

With the new CBA, there is a chance that Lowe will get a chance to solve a bunch of the teams problems at a fraction of the cost that it would cost to solve them right now. If there is cost certainty, and teams need to unload some of their higher priced talent, Lowe is in a pretty good position to make a move for them.

It's not a complicated thought process. The league is going to be changing, so the smart thing to do is what for the change, and see what you can do then. Sure the doors look to be closing now, but if a new CBA makes some drastic changes, Lowe could have the option of making even better moves than he could have even hoped to make right now.

Answer this... how pissed off would you be at Lowe if he signed Nedved to a deal worth $3.5 mil per season, then a change in the CBA forced a team like Tampa to have to trade a guy like Vinney, or Richards... and because of the signing, Lowe can't make the deal to grab one of those guys?

Now is the most important time to be patient people. I'm sure there have been lots of deals that could have been made, but were not made for the simple reason that the price wasn't right.

It's no sense being patient and waiting until a new CBA comes around, if you are going to jump the gun just before a new one is agreed to.

I think that Lowe should be gearing up for post cba at this point, and a #1 centre would be part of the mix. Instead it appears (to me, at least) that the post-cba talk is just some more of Lowe's lip service. I am honestly afraid that 2 years from now we'll be in the same position as we are now. I've defended Lowe in the past, but I really am beginning to suspect his gm skills.

Your example about Vinnny & Richards is well taken. But based on past performance (igor's best indicator for future performance ), I would think the more likely scenario is that vinny or Richards is up for grabs and we sit idly by as another team signs him.

One question for you, 'bone: how long will you be patient before you expect to see results?

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08-27-2004, 03:04 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Marconius
I think that Lowe should be gearing up for post cba at this point, and a #1 centre would be part of the mix. Instead it appears (to me, at least) that the post-cba talk is just some more of Lowe's lip service. I am honestly afraid that 2 years from now we'll be in the same position as we are now. I've defended Lowe in the past, but I really am beginning to suspect his gm skills.

Your example about Vinnny & Richards is well taken. But based on past performance (igor's best indicator for future performance ), I would think the more likely scenario is that vinny or Richards is up for grabs and we sit idly by as another team signs him.

One question for you, 'bone: how long will you be patient before you expect to see results?
I think Lowe has sat idly by for the reason that the price isn't right, and he's expecting a complete and total buyers market when the season starts up. I mean signing Nedved for $3.3 mil might seem like a good idea now, but it could be a move we regret in 3 months (or whenever they come to an agreement). I guess we have to wait and see... the season isn't going to start anytime soon, so there is really no point in me getting bent out of shape over our lack of a #1 centre.

As for how long I am willing to be patient... my patience will get put to the test the day the new CBA is agreed to. From that moment, it's put up, or get out time for Lowe. I am not saying that he needs to build the cup winner, but that is the moment he has been waiting for, and talking about since he took over, and he better take advantage of it, starting at that point in time. Does it mean he needs to make 3 deals the second the ink is dry? Of course not... but if it is taking him 1, 2 or 3 years to solve a problem in the lineup, that's when my song will change.

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08-27-2004, 05:18 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Marconius
You don't seem to get it. I don't care anymore about the specifics of why or how things didn't go our way. All I know is Lowe can't get it done.

Talking about Lindros? Can't get it done
Talking about the #1,2,3 picks in a draft? Can't get it done
Talking about Nedved? Can't get it done

I've heard too many stories by Lowe, about what he's attempted to do to improve the team, but not enough stories about successful moves.


Who's talking about these scenarios??? Its bored fans on a message board. A small market team has to be built from the inside, we can't go signing 1st line centres who aren't going to take us to the cup. Before Lowe came we had nothing prospect wise, now we have a solid prospect pool, who when they develop, has a chance to turn into a contender. People like you have no patience, we can't go out and buy ourselves a contender, and we don't currently have all the pieces to do so. In a few years we will though, maybe then it would be a good idea to sign a ufa to fill a small hole.

How come so few people can see what Lowe's doing. We had absolutely nothing when he took control, what do you expect Lowe to do with nothing, I like what he's done and we are on the right track.

Nedved was hyped up way to much around here, people talked like he was already on the team, you have no clue how close Lowe and Nedved were to a contract, and don't listen to the media, they don't know much.

If you can't see that, go cheer for the Rangers or something, they'll buy all the guys you need.

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