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[EDM/CAR/LA/BUF] 4-way trade (details inside)

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Old
03-05-2009, 12:21 PM
  #176
caniac247
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I think this trade was good for all 3 teams:

Edmonton trades Cole who for whatever reason didn't fit in there. Maybe it was playing him on LW when everyone knows he likes to play on his off wing. Coincidence his play picked up when he was moved to RW. I think not. Edmonton gets a younger O'Sullivan who is signed for the next 2 years. To be honest I know nothing of O'Sullivan except his dad is psychotic, but Oiler fans seem to be happy so I'll take their word and say good deal for Edmonton.

LA gets a proven 30g/30a guy in Williams. Grant it he's injured now and likely won't play the rest of this season, but I think getting a new start will be good for him. He'll take these months to get healthy and when training camp comes, he'll have a clean slate. He will also be an experienced vet that will definetly help out on that young team.

Carolina gets Cole back, a guy who they know won't disrupt team chemistry, knows the system, knows the coach, and knows his way around the area. Important aspects to have when you only have 17 games left. Cole will also hopefully get Staal ignited. He also brings in what we have been missing a speedy physical forward. We have enough munchkins on the team. If Cole doesn't work out, no harm no fail. He won't be under contract next season and we don't have to make him an offer. If we decide not to re-sign him or he decides to move on, by unloading Williams, we now have an extra $7M to play with come July 1st.

So yeah, I think this trade helps all teams involved. Edmonton/Carolina both get help NOW as they make their last push. LA gets a great two-way player for the next 2 years.

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03-05-2009, 12:37 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
O'Sullivan is a cancer and I'm glad he's gone. He mouthed off in practice because he was taken off the top line. Why would LA want that attitude around their young kids? Williams improves the character of this club and will make LA tougher to play against.
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Frolov-Kopitar-O'Sullivan have been on a tear since they were put together but the Marleau-Thornton-Setoguchi line has been consistent all season and is probably the best.
Funny how just 2 weeks ago you were arguing that O'Sullivan was part of the 2nd best line in the NHL. My how the mighty have fallen....your username is perfect

Maybe O'Sullivan is just passionate and really wants to succeed. Its not like he's the only forward not producing as expected on the Kings. Do you have any links from any credible news source or quotes from team mates that O'Sullivan was a cancer?

It could be worse Kings fans. You could have Penner on your team who probably is happy about being demoted because its less ice time.


Last edited by Homesick: 03-05-2009 at 12:49 PM.
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03-05-2009, 12:55 PM
  #178
SFKingshomer
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Funny how just 2 weeks ago you were arguing that O'Sullivan was part of the 2nd best line in the NHL. My how the mighty have fallen....your username is perfect

Maybe O'Sullivan is just passionate and really wants to succeed. Its not like he's the only forward not producing as expected on the Kings. Do you have any links from any credible news source or quotes from team mates that O'Sullivan was a cancer?

It could be worse Kings fans. You could have Penner on your team who probably is happy about being demoted because its less ice time.
That line was on a tear because of Frolov, he makes everyone better. O'Sulkivan has been mouthy all season according to several Kings insiders who watch practices.

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03-05-2009, 12:57 PM
  #179
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The more I start thinking about it I love this trade for LA, Williams is a beast when healthy, legit 30 goal scoring winger that plays physical.

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03-05-2009, 01:16 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by JMFJ 3 View Post
The more I start thinking about it I love this trade for LA, Williams is a beast when healthy, legit 30 goal scoring winger that plays physical.
When healthy he is a solid two-way player, a very good passer and a guy who can snipe the corners with deadly accuracy when he is on. However, if you think he plays physical, you will be disappointed as that's not his game.

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03-05-2009, 01:29 PM
  #181
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He actually hangs out here? You're just joking, right?
He's not joking

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03-05-2009, 01:37 PM
  #182
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People need to grasp that LA removed re from the rebuilding. They progressed faster than expected and it's time to start adding some experience and character. Justin Williams is all that. Of course there is a risk with his injuries but he is the type of player that fits the description of what DL wants LA to stand for (minus the injuries of course). Also, it is my personal belief that Moller will do everything O'Sullivan did PLUS some stuff that he didn't.

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03-05-2009, 01:48 PM
  #183
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I wish I was joking. He posts here and over at letsgokings.com. I forget his handle here.

his handle here is builditagain

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03-05-2009, 01:49 PM
  #184
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his handle here is builditagain
Huh, I guess you guys are really serious. Forget being intrigued, I'm just officially scared. That is really creepy.

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03-05-2009, 01:52 PM
  #185
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his handle here is builditagain
He's either banned or you spelled it wrong.

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03-05-2009, 02:01 PM
  #186
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Tell you what. You go into the playoffs with O'Sullivan. I'll take Cole. Deal? Maybe in 2012 I'll change that tune. Now?
Erik Cole has nine points in 25 career playoff games. Nine. He has only two playoff appearances in his career! Oh, and 23 of them came seven years ago

Let me say that again: Erik Cole has not been involved in a prolonged playoff run in SEVEN YEARS.

I'm sorry Trots, but for all the future-lover labeling you do, you've become just as bad when it comes to vets. Look at it this way: let's say a prospect had a great junior career seven years ago and was a high pick, but nothing since. You'd be railing against anyone who tried to insist that they had the potential to provide something substantial.

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03-05-2009, 02:02 PM
  #187
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He's either banned or you spelled it wrong.
I'm pretty sure he got banned. Give me a moment and I'll pull up one of his posts.

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03-05-2009, 02:05 PM
  #188
Marconius
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Originally Posted by saskyoil View Post
Couple of comments:

The Oilers are good at drafting and developing 'heart and soul', physical guys and cultivating leadership. Grinders and physical Dmen. You could argue that this is also our problem! LA has a wealth of slick European star players.
See now this is one of those fallacies that I think has been repeated so often that people fail to see that it is no longer true. If the Oilers are so good at developing heart & soul players, then why is it that they can't play 60 minutes of quality hockey? If they're so good at developing physical players why do we have one of the lowest hit toals in the league and play soft as butter?

I think what happens is that as fans, we look at the team and see that we just don't have the skill to compete. So we turn around and assume that our strength must then be heart & soul physicality. Yet, a quick look at any of the 'must win' game GDT's indicates that the players are the exact opposite: no drive, no intensity, no will to win and no commitment to physical play.

I think the problem is that we're not good at either. I WISH we had an overly-physical team that left it all out on the ice every night

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Old
03-05-2009, 02:13 PM
  #189
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I'm pretty sure he got banned. Give me a moment and I'll pull up one of his posts.
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Originally Posted by builditagain
Probably going over seas now, can't wait any longer for the Kings nonsense.Gotta stay active.
That was during the training camp business with O'Sullivan and his contract. At another point, someone else was mistakenly called Sully's dad and this builditagain person asked for an apology, saying that they resented that remark. Nearly all of this person's posts were about O'Sullivan. It was his dad.

Post history is here

http://hfboards.com/search.php?searchid=6980064&pp=25

Short of David Frost showing up, he'd probably be the most despicable person to post here.

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03-05-2009, 02:25 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
That was during the training camp business with O'Sullivan and his contract. At another point, someone else was mistakenly called Sully's dad and this builditagain person asked for an apology, saying that they resented that remark. Nearly all of this person's posts were about O'Sullivan. It was his dad.

Post history is here

http://hfboards.com/search.php?searchid=6980064&pp=25

Short of David Frost showing up, he'd probably be the most despicable person to post here.
Link doesn't work...but i guess the Oilers HF posters will have to be diligent and watch for him and add him to the ignore list, if everyone there does this maybe he will go away!

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Old
03-05-2009, 02:43 PM
  #191
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Value wise Edmonton is the clear winner here to me. Sully for a soon to be UFA is amazing. Sully is going to flourish with edm. offensively, just don't expect any corner work out of him. He's a lot like Cammaleri, you love him when he's scoring but when he doesn't he's not doing much for you. LA takes a huge but calculated risk here, though we overpaid for Williams we desperately need a guy like Williams. LA has all the young talent in the world and we have a lot of guys with great 'supporting character" but we need a guy that leads with character. A guy similar to Deadmarsh who people just follow his passion and initiative, i'm not sure Williams is that but I know he's closer to Deader than anyone currently on our team even our captain Brown. So we'll see how things work out.

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03-05-2009, 02:50 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Erik Cole has nine points in 25 career playoff games. Nine. He has only two playoff appearances in his career! Oh, and 23 of them came seven years ago

Let me say that again: Erik Cole has not been involved in a prolonged playoff run in SEVEN YEARS.

I'm sorry Trots, but for all the future-lover labeling you do, you've become just as bad when it comes to vets. Look at it this way: let's say a prospect had a great junior career seven years ago and was a high pick, but nothing since. You'd be railing against anyone who tried to insist that they had the potential to provide something substantial.
This coming from a guy that has obviously not seen Erik Cole lace them up in the playoffs or simply didn't know what he was looking at. Erik Cole grabbed the hockey world by the throat in 2002 by scoring some HUGE goals in that playoff run that allowed Carolina to advance to the finals. He along with the entire Carolina offense was shut down in the Finals against Detroit but that does not discount what he did. He was a constant spark of energy and he decimated the competition by throwing huge hits and making great plays. He embarrassed legends like Doug Gilmore, Gary Roberts, Scott Stevens, etc. during those games. He killed it.

And in Game 7 of the 2006 Finals, he drew the penalty that the GWG was scored on. Erik Cole is a warrior in every sense of the word.

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03-05-2009, 02:58 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
I'm sorry Trots, but for all the future-lover labeling you do, you've become just as bad when it comes to vets.
Fair point bringing up Coles' personal offensive stats.

But that implies that all he brings to the ice is scoring, which is readable by numbers.

He brings more. And you know that, one assumes.

Again, May, 2008. Late in a playoff game. You want O'Sullivan out on the ice or Cole?

Ask 30 NHL coaches.

(And again, this is not meant as an indictment of O'Sullivan in any way whatsoever. It is a reading of the value of Cole, now.)

Just my opinion.


Last edited by Trottier: 03-05-2009 at 03:10 PM.
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03-05-2009, 03:23 PM
  #194
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Apparently not much of an Oiler fan. Stupid comment
For example, you don't remember last season? Stoll had an off year last year, still killed penalties, still won faceoffs that with playing on the 3rd line far away from our best players. Where were you? Did you just jump on the bandwagon yesterday? Two more stupid comments. Stoll centered Hemsky and Penner last year and he got absolutely decimated against top competition and scored very, very few points. Stoll played very very very sparingly with Hemsky until late in the season. A black hole. He was great when put back into a checking role but he is not and never will be a top line type guy. Do we miss Stoll's Faceoffs? Sure. But they could be replaced by Reasoner for 750,000k. Uh yeah and where is Reasoner? duh Enjoy paying Stoll 3.6 M. As far as physicality on the blueline, we are fine. Yeah Horcoff is a much better value getting paid 6 million We have Souray, Staios, Strudwick, Peckham. Obviously you don't pay much attention. Yet another stupid comment Just because Visnovsky has been injured the last couple of weeks doesn't mean he ceases to exist. Yet another stupid comment, did you even read my post?

Vish is a top 15 d-man in the NHL. The value of that is significantly higher than Stoll + Greene and it always will be.[/QUOTE]


- Much worse Pk
- Much worse in faceoffs
- less grit on the back end.

The oilers do miss those players. Please read the post you are responding to before going into a lather of illogic.

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Old
03-05-2009, 03:24 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Fair point bringing up Coles' personal offensive stats.

But that implies that all he brings to the ice is scoring, which is readable by numbers.

He brings more. And you know that, one assumes.

Again, May, 2008. Late in a playoff game. You want O'Sullivan out on the ice or Cole?

Ask 30 NHL coaches.

(And again, this is not meant as an indictment of O'Sullivan in any way whatsoever. It is a reading of the value of Cole, now.)

Just my opinion.
If it was just O'Sullivan, then sure I'd agree with you.

But I'd take Kotalik and O'Sullivan in a playoff game over Cole alone.

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03-05-2009, 03:37 PM
  #196
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This coming from a guy that has obviously not seen Erik Cole lace them up in the playoffs or simply didn't know what he was looking at. Erik Cole grabbed the hockey world by the throat in 2002 by scoring some HUGE goals in that playoff run that allowed Carolina to advance to the finals.
I did in fact watch that run. And there's no question he scored some 'huge' goals.

But so did Fernando Pisani. Is Pisani suddenly a proven playoff threat?

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03-05-2009, 03:47 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
I did in fact watch that run. And there's no question he scored some 'huge' goals.

But so did Fernando Pisani. Is Pisani suddenly a proven playoff threat?
I would say yes. Players that have proven they can produce in the playoffs, even if for one run, have at least proven that they will not wilt under those circumstances. That is half the battle, IMO. I think once a player is labeled as not being as good as advertised in the playoffs, that label is hard to shake. I think the inverse of that is true as well.

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Old
03-05-2009, 04:00 PM
  #198
Homesick
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I would say yes. Players that have proven they can produce in the playoffs, even if for one run, have at least proven that they will not wilt under those circumstances. That is half the battle, IMO. I think once a player is labeled as not being as good as advertised in the playoffs, that label is hard to shake. I think the inverse of that is true as well.
In those 2 games that Cole played in the 06 final not only did he draw a huge penalty but he also hit everything that he could. I think something like 12 hits in two games.

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03-05-2009, 04:03 PM
  #199
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Damn Kings fans... so anti O's suddenly. Hey, the kid was frustrating to watch at times but I appreciated the fact that every time he was across the attacking blueline, the only thing that went through his mind was, "I'm getting this puck to that net". Did he hit the net every time? Not even close. But that part of his game can improve. It's harder to get a young player to always want to shoot and score than it is to get him to have a better shot selection.

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03-05-2009, 04:04 PM
  #200
StormCast
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
I did in fact watch that run. And there's no question he scored some 'huge' goals.

But so did Fernando Pisani. Is Pisani suddenly a proven playoff threat?
If you only are focusing on his point totals, you are missing what Cole brought which was speed on the edge, physical play, constant forechecking, etc.

In his first playoff experience, he was a rookie and made his contributions in those areas not measured by stats. In 2002 the Canes were an undermanned team who trapped and played tons of tight, low-scoring games. His job was to create space for Brind'Amour on that line and create havoc, which he did along with chipping in timely goals.

Obviously he only played two games in the 2006 Cup-winning year but again made a major impact with his wicked hitting after the Canes had been manhandled in game 6.

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