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Old
08-27-2004, 08:51 AM
  #1
Elvis Lives
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Nedved wanted out

Before everybody ties the can to Kevin Lowe, I have one question: how interested was Petr Nedved in returning to Edmonton if his agent didn't even let Lowe make a counter offer?
Reading The Sun, The Journal and listening to Scott Howson on the radio, it seems pretty clear Nedved and JP Barry weren't that interested in coming back. All their talk to the contrary was lip service.
If Brownlee and Matheson have the numbers right, Nedved took a contract that was only slightly better than Lowe's first offer. Too bad he didn't get a chance to make a second offer. Varekova, as we suspected, was obviously a factor in this.
He didn't want to be here.

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08-27-2004, 09:33 AM
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I am waiting for an explanation

A Vancouver radio station is reporting that the oilers were offering Nedved bonus money with a lower guerenteed base salery then the Dogs did--

also--you got to remember--when it comes to telling the complete truth--the Edmonton media sometimes bends it

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08-27-2004, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark
I am waiting for an explanation

A Vancouver radio station is reporting that the oilers were offering Nedved bonus money with a lower guerenteed base salery then the Dogs did--

also--you got to remember--when it comes to telling the complete truth--the Edmonton media sometimes bends it

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...27/605017.html

Read Bronwlee's article, and if you think he has a bend to it, read between the lines when it comes to Nedved's remarks.

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08-27-2004, 09:41 AM
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non-edmonton link please

by posting an edmonton link--you obviously missed my comments about the fact I don't trust how Edmonton reporters report things

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08-27-2004, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark
non-edmonton link please

by posting an edmonton link--you obviously missed my comments about the fact I don't trust how Edmonton reporters report things
Which is why I stated it might be a good idea to just read Nedved's comments in that article. I doubt the Edmonton media would go as far as altering or faking quotes from players.

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08-27-2004, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark
non-edmonton link please

by posting an edmonton link--you obviously missed my comments about the fact I don't trust how Edmonton reporters report things
Then get off your ass and find them yourself...

I mean, you are the one making stuff up about the Coyotes wanting Nedved, and trading Langkow just so they can sign Nedved.

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08-27-2004, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis Lives
Before everybody ties the can to Kevin Lowe, I have one question: how interested was Petr Nedved in returning to Edmonton if his agent didn't even let Lowe make a counter offer?
.
Lowe had all summer to get it done he had first crack he shouldn't of needed the counter offer. These articles are nothing more than what is becoming classic Kevin Lowe spin.

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08-27-2004, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenchild
Lowe had all summer to get it done he had first crack he shouldn't of needed the counter offer. These articles are nothing more than what is becoming classic Kevin Lowe spin.
First crack at 3 years and $3+ mil per season... I'm glad he didn't make that deal.

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08-27-2004, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
First crack at 3 years and $3+ mil per season... I'm glad he didn't make that deal.
Agree completely, Dawgbone. I was OK with one year and could have lived with two but the three years for a chronic underacheiver at big bucks didn't thrill me. What made it hard was that he played well for 16 games and during those games the Oilers actually looked like a team that could play. But it seems to me that a lot of people on this board that are disappointed about Nedved are the same people who are screaming about the Kiprusoff award based upon fifty some games. I think Nedved's career is a better indication of what you get than those 16 games and I will still be happier with a 23-24 year old who can grow with the team.

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08-27-2004, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
First crack at 3 years and $3+ mil per season... I'm glad he didn't make that deal.
What would you expect to pay for a first line centre? Looking at the top 20 scoring centres who have contracts the cheapest is Tyler Arnason at $1.4M (only 2 seasons) and after that I'd suggest $3M isn't going to get it done.

If we want talented players we have to pay. How does Calgary afford Iginla?

The only good thing about not signing Nedved was we didn't get into a bidding war with Phoenix. After all, if Lowe was given another chance then Phoenix would probably get another chance and Nedved would still be a Dog.

 
Old
08-27-2004, 10:52 AM
  #11
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okay, i can live with the fact we lost nedved, but where is this 23 or 24 year centre that you speak about? the reality is once again if there is a season this year the oilers do not have a number one centre. is it time to cry chicken little, no but i question the direction of this team when lowe has done nothing to address the weaknesses of this team. oh it is still early no doubt, but the options to address this area(first and foremost centre) are slowly dwindling down to nothing.

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08-27-2004, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ZIM
What would you expect to pay for a first line centre? Looking at the top 20 scoring centres who have contracts the cheapest is Tyler Arnason at $1.4M (only 2 seasons) and after that I'd suggest $3M isn't going to get it done.

If we want talented players we have to pay. How does Calgary afford Iginla?

The only good thing about not signing Nedved was we didn't get into a bidding war with Phoenix. After all, if Lowe was given another chance then Phoenix would probably get another chance and Nedved would still be a Dog.
"a first line centre" is pretty generic.

Don't forget to look at the top 20 scoring centres, and tell me where Nedved sits there (37 btw, well outside the top 20).

I'd rather pay a real first line centre $4mil, than Nedved $3mil anyways...

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08-27-2004, 11:30 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
"a first line centre" is pretty generic.

Don't forget to look at the top 20 scoring centres, and tell me where Nedved sits there (37 btw, well outside the top 20).

I'd rather pay a real first line centre $4mil, than Nedved $3mil anyways...
Nedved may have been 37th but he was tied with Roenick and ahead of Modano.

I think the real concern is that Lowe won't pay $4M to anyone. He'll try to negotiate it down to $3.6 and some other team will make the $4M deal.

 
Old
08-27-2004, 11:33 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
Nedved may have been 37th but he was tied with Roenick and ahead of Modano.

I think the real concern is that Lowe won't pay $4M to anyone. He'll try to negotiate it down to $3.6 and some other team will make the $4M deal.
And both of those players knows where their own end of the ice are, and they aren't soft as melted cheese whiz...

Add to that Roenick played in 20 or so less games. Modano had his worst season ever, while Nedved had his typical season.

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08-27-2004, 11:43 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
And both of those players knows where their own end of the ice are, and they aren't soft as melted cheese whiz...

Add to that Roenick played in 20 or so less games. Modano had his worst season ever, while Nedved had his typical season.
You addressed the player issue but not the negotiating issue. I am suggesting that Lowe's tactic of getting absolutely the cheapest deal he can will continually backfire. In cities where attendance is an issue someone like Nedved will put bums in seats. He won't in Edmonton since we are sold out or close to it. Other GMs can pay more to Nedved, or any other 'name' player, but their net cost is less.

So how do you think Lowe should negotiate?

 
Old
08-27-2004, 12:00 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
Nedved may have been 37th but he was tied with Roenick and ahead of Modano.

I think the real concern is that Lowe won't pay $4M to anyone. He'll try to negotiate it down to $3.6 and some other team will make the $4M deal.
And that's Lowe's fault? We're dreaming if we think that the Oilers can now afford to spend 4 million on UFA's. Apparently unlike Barnett, Lowe still has a budget to meet

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08-27-2004, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
You addressed the player issue but not the negotiating issue. I am suggesting that Lowe's tactic of getting absolutely the cheapest deal he can will continually backfire. In cities where attendance is an issue someone like Nedved will put bums in seats. He won't in Edmonton since we are sold out or close to it. Other GMs can pay more to Nedved, or any other 'name' player, but their net cost is less.

So how do you think Lowe should negotiate?
Get the player for the right price... if it's $3mil a year, get him for that. If it's $6mil and you can afford it, get him for that.

That tactic may not be the best way to get players under the current economic system... but that system won't be around much longer. Soon it will be about getting guys to sign the cheapest deal you can.

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Old
08-27-2004, 12:09 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by oilersrule14
And that's Lowe's fault? We're dreaming if we think that the Oilers can now afford to spend 4 million on UFA's. Apparently unlike Barnett, Lowe still has a budget to meet
If Lowe can pay Isbister $1.9M last year and sign him for $1.45M for next season he can afford $4M for a quality player. Simply cut Isbister and use that money.

Until attendance drops, in other words when the fans get sick of mediocrity, the Oilers will continue to put the cheapest team possible on ice.

 
Old
08-27-2004, 12:12 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIM
If Lowe can pay Isbister $1.9M last year and sign him for $1.45M for next season he can afford $4M for a quality player. Simply cut Isbister and use that money.

Until attendance drops, in other words when the fans get sick of mediocrity, the Oilers will continue to put the cheapest team possible on ice.
If the Oilers wanted the cheapest team on the ice, guys like Smyth, Brewer, Smith, would all be gone, with guys like Lynch, Wyowitka and Rita taking their places, and the payroll would be around $24-25mil...

Get serious.

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08-27-2004, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
First crack at 3 years and $3+ mil per season... I'm glad he didn't make that deal.
DB you follow the league a lot closer than I do so tell me how Lowe would be better off to spend the 3+. this is the part I don't get. Iv'e heard it all summer "I wouldn't pay more than 3, if thats what it takes then let him walk" not just from you but others as well. ok if thats your position then tell me what exactly that extra lets say 500k is going to get this hockey team. instead of Petr at 3 or 3.25 who is out there to solve the 1st line center and PP holes. if you think he's worth 2.75 2.8 and think its a bad move to pay more than that then clearly that next 400 or 500k is extremly valuable what exactly do you think Lowe is going to do with it? thats the part I don't understand.

My belief is there are times you need to get the player if he is the right fit and even if you have to overpay. now I'm not talking about overpaying by millions but an extra 300-500K? i would do that.

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08-27-2004, 08:38 PM
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The problem is Nedved's agent wanted 3.3M per season from Edmonton and signed for less with Phoenix. The Oilers and Lowe were used and there's no way to sugar coat other than the Oilers being used.

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08-27-2004, 08:41 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenchild
DB you follow the league a lot closer than I do so tell me how Lowe would be better off to spend the 3+. this is the part I don't get. Iv'e heard it all summer "I wouldn't pay more than 3, if thats what it takes then let him walk" not just from you but others as well. ok if thats your position then tell me what exactly that extra lets say 500k is going to get this hockey team. instead of Petr at 3 or 3.25 who is out there to solve the 1st line center and PP holes. if you think he's worth 2.75 2.8 and think its a bad move to pay more than that then clearly that next 400 or 500k is extremly valuable what exactly do you think Lowe is going to do with it? thats the part I don't understand.

My belief is there are times you need to get the player if he is the right fit and even if you have to overpay. now I'm not talking about overpaying by millions but an extra 300-500K? i would do that.
Who to get?

I dunno, but maybe you save that $3mil, and trade a guy like Isbister and Brewer (combined $4 mil salary, for a total of $7mil) and trade for a guy like Thornton.

Unfortunately, if you trade for a guy like Nedved, you put all your eggs in one basket. At $2.8 mil, if he is playing like crap, you have an additional $700k (plus the salary of the guy you trade) to pick up someone else.

Unfortunately, if you sign Nedved to a deal worth $3.3 over 3... you are tying yourself down. The $3+ mil over 2 years is a little more tolerable...

My personal opinion was that Nedved could probably help the power play, and we had enough decent 5 on 5 players to cover for him (much like we did with Comrie)... but is it worth $3.3 mil for a guy who really only helps on the PP? It's not like Nedved has this wonderful past of contributing and making players around him better... his history is shady at best.

Same with Zhamnov... I wouldn't give him anymore than $2.7/2.8.

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08-27-2004, 09:36 PM
  #23
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But Powerplay is what killed the team las year and the year before. When Nedved got here it was immediatelly more threatening to the opposion. Nedved isn't the only guy who can make a PP respectable, but perhaps is the one we had the best chance of getting. If he really did use Oil to land a contract elsewhere then thats different.

I say if at all possible, get Zhamnov for Nedved money, and it will get us playoff hockey.

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08-27-2004, 09:49 PM
  #24
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Actually, igor had mentioned in a different thread that the Oilers' PP actually "flatlined" after Nedved was acquired, but had improved a fair amount from January until he arrived. And I trust igor to have done the analysis...

There are those who argue that the Oilers even without Nedved *should* do at least a little better next year, as it'll be a whole year without Salo (most would agree that Conkkanen should be better over the season), we should have a full year of Reasoner rather than Oates, and hopefully a full season of York. Our back-end is at least deeper than last year and we'll be starting the year with Ulanov (who we didn't get until partway through).

So if the PP can sustain the level they were playing at just before we got Nedved, that will be worth a couple of games there, and a couple of games from not having Salo, and we should easily make one of the last few playoff spots.

If we can pick up a talented center who won't hurt us much 5-on-5, and can make the PP even better, then we should be challenging for the top of the division.

Don't get me wrong - I think Nedved was a pretty good fit here, but like dawgbone I didn't want to see a guaranteed 3-year deal, and not at over $3M per.

Now we can see what Lowe's Plan B is...

Bart

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08-27-2004, 09:52 PM
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Ya, that's true - it's when Bergeron came back up fromt he Farm and got rollin when the PP started takin off.

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