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Nedveds a Coyote

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Old
08-27-2004, 08:40 PM
  #151
Lowetide
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I understand that feelings are running high here, but can we stop with the attacks? This board was built on expressing your opinion and respecting the other guy, and this thread is becoming mean spirited.

I don't agree with you. You could certainly be right. But, just for an instant, please consider that the opposite may also be true. And for crying out loud, stop with the over the top comments. No one is going to die from this.

Otherwise, redtwilight is going to come down here and whack some peepees.

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08-27-2004, 10:59 PM
  #152
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I'll only add this - I managed to catch a bit of Stauffer's show today, and he had a comment regarding the calls he'd received yesterday, he said that he was somewhat surprised at the amount of venom towards Lowe from many of the callers.

We can talk about rebuilding plans and call to be patient all we like, but I'm getting the sense that a lot of Oiler fans are getting sick and tired of being told to wait 2-3 years, that the best is yet to come. It's been 6 years since this team did anything other than be a first round patsy for Dallas or not even make the playoffs, how much longer can they reasonably be expected to wait?

I think a lot of Oiler fans took it very hard to see Flames flags everywhere they turned around, to see the Red Mile on TV seemingly every night. People want to see the leader of their beloved Oilers DO something...but what they get is Lowe explaining why Plan A failed, and giving the distinct impression that Plan B may take a while.

Whether it's fair or not, the court of public opinion is starting to come down hard on Oilers management. And to be honest, even if Lowe was fired tomorrow what tangible difference would it make?

I'll say it again: If the owners feel they've accomplished enough just to survive another day, why should the executives who work for them strive for anything more?

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Old
08-27-2004, 11:03 PM
  #153
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I listened for both days

and IMO the calls were evenly divided.

Very much like this board.

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Old
08-27-2004, 11:13 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
I'll only add this - I managed to catch a bit of Stauffer's show today, and he had a comment regarding the calls he'd received yesterday, he said that he was somewhat surprised at the amount of venom towards Lowe from many of the callers.

We can talk about rebuilding plans and call to be patient all we like, but I'm getting the sense that a lot of Oiler fans are getting sick and tired of being told to wait 2-3 years, that the best is yet to come. It's been 6 years since this team did anything other than be a first round patsy for Dallas or not even make the playoffs, how much longer can they reasonably be expected to wait?

I think a lot of Oiler fans took it very hard to see Flames flags everywhere they turned around, to see the Red Mile on TV seemingly every night. People want to see the leader of their beloved Oilers DO something...but what they get is Lowe explaining why Plan A failed, and giving the distinct impression that Plan B may take a while.

Whether it's fair or not, the court of public opinion is starting to come down hard on Oilers management. And to be honest, even if Lowe was fired tomorrow what tangible difference would it make?

I'll say it again: If the owners feel they've accomplished enough just to survive another day, why should the executives who work for them strive for anything more?
In all honesty, it wouldn't have mattered who became GM, the person would have been criticized. Lowe would have been criticized if he had traded Weight for Jagr. I'm serious. There's just too many Slats lovers out there.

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Old
08-27-2004, 11:28 PM
  #155
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ya, but let's not forget that only real fans and any fan that IS a real fan will always criticise what their favourite team does. If nobody was ever critical of Lowe then we'd have a brutal fan base.

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Old
08-27-2004, 11:35 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
ya, but let's not forget that only real fans and any fan that IS a real fan will always criticise what their favourite team does. If nobody was ever critical of Lowe then we'd have a brutal fan base.
I'm not saying Lowe shouldn't be criticized. What I'm trying to say that Lowe shouldn't be constantly criticized. It was chaos after Carter and Niinimaa were traded. When Lowe first became GM and he traded Hamrlik to the Islanders, fans wanted him fired saying it was a lousy trade.

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Old
08-27-2004, 11:37 PM
  #157
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AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

If you repeat how people wanted to hang Lowe after that trade ONE more time you should be banned for three days!

You seem like a good guy, but you've probably posted that same sentiment about a dozen times tonight!

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Old
08-28-2004, 12:23 AM
  #158
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Well said Digger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
I'll only add this - I managed to catch a bit of Stauffer's show today, and he had a comment regarding the calls he'd received yesterday, he said that he was somewhat surprised at the amount of venom towards Lowe from many of the callers.

We can talk about rebuilding plans and call to be patient all we like, but I'm getting the sense that a lot of Oiler fans are getting sick and tired of being told to wait 2-3 years, that the best is yet to come. It's been 6 years since this team did anything other than be a first round patsy for Dallas or not even make the playoffs, how much longer can they reasonably be expected to wait?
Yup, if we've heard "just wait until 2004" once, we've heard it a hundred times. And for most long-suffering Oiler fans ... it's now time for Lowe to stand and deliver. Announced plans of another multi-year building plan will be a heckuva tough sell to most fans and customers.
Quote:
I think a lot of Oiler fans took it very hard to see Flames flags everywhere they turned around, to see the Red Mile on TV seemingly every night. People want to see the leader of their beloved Oilers DO something...but what they get is Lowe explaining why Plan A failed, and giving the distinct impression that Plan B may take a while.
Badger Bob Johnson often used to repeat a story about his first day in Calgary. A fan told him ... "winning's good, but the most important thing is to beat Edmonton" :lol With Calgary's playoff run some of the bad feelings are creeping back into the BOA. Which is a good thing. But as you say ... it puts more pressure on the Oilers now, no doubt about it.
Quote:
Whether it's fair or not, the court of public opinion is starting to come down hard on Oilers management. And to be honest, even if Lowe was fired tomorrow what tangible difference would it make?
Yup. And I agree it makes no sense to fire Lowe ... I don't think that many are calling for his head though, just expressing anger or disappointment.

Personally I'm baffled by the last 12 months. There does not seem to be a clear direction. If they are in "patience grasshopper" mode ... then why the heck were they pursuing Nedved? Doesn't make sense.

I've been a fan of Lowe for the most part (Hecht and Niinimaa deals aside) ... but I find it impossible to see the wisdom in the handling of the centre and goaltending situation last year. And even worse ... the money saved from Salo's contract seems to be drifting away bit by bit into each new deal negotiated. The handling of Brewer is mind-blowing to me ... and indicates a certain lack of respect from the NHLPA for the Oiler's negotiating abilities IMHO. And how on Earth do they NOT read that Nedved is using them to establish his own market value and nothing more?

Its interesting in that there are some very clever apologists here that can rationalize the decisions ... but a lot of it just doesn't add up.

I'm no impressed with Lowe estimating this will be a "90 point team next season". I was hoping that he would be willing to move the bar a little higher.

.

And of course it's in some peoples nature to hate the GM from day1 and criticize nonstop ... and its in other people's nature to love the GM from day1 and admire nonstop. Neither seems healthy to me ... but that's humanity, what can ya do?

Quote:
I'll say it again: If the owners feel they've accomplished enough just to survive another day, why should the executives who work for them strive for anything more?
This is the best point of all IMO.

What do you think the executive and office personnel bonuses are based on?
I would be very surprised if there ISN'T a significant bonus for making the playoffs.
I would be very surprised if there IS a significant bonus for doing more than just making the playoffs.

And this attitude just seems to shine through.

What is the goal here? Does Lowe have a plan? Did he ever?

I have been as guilty as anyone of trying to piece together Lowe's actions into a coherent plan and giving him credit. But it can be taken to the point of nonsense ... IMO when it stops making sense ---> the sensible man acknowledges that it's stopped making sense.

I suspect that:
1. The Oilers will spend JUST enough to be a 92ish point team for years to come.
2. That this will continue until attendance is affected.
3. That the future won't be sacrificed for the present, and that the present will not be sacrificed for the future unless it is economically motivated (necessary).

The best (or the worst) thing that could happen to this team is a lucky playoff run.

Status quo.

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Old
08-28-2004, 12:49 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
I've been a fan of Lowe for the most part (Hecht and Niinimaa deals aside) ... but I find it impossible to see the wisdom in the handling of the centre and goaltending situation last year. And even worse ... the money saved from Salo's contract seems to be drifting away bit by bit into each new deal negotiated. The handling of Brewer is mind-blowing to me ... and indicates a certain lack of respect from the NHLPA for the Oiler's negotiating abilities IMHO. And how on Earth do they NOT read that Nedved is using them to establish his own market value and nothing more?

What is the goal here? Does Lowe have a plan? Did he ever?

I agree that it's likely a very low percentage of fans who want Lowe gone and that could be turned around in a day (WHAT might make it turn around scares the BeJesus out of me. Visions of Messier returning, or a battle of Alberta game against the backdrop of Lake Louise or Sylvan Lake).

I also think that most of us feel he's doing an adequate to plus job. He can find dmen with ease, has made some nice deals (the York deal imo can now be put into the "fleece" column) and the scouts have been left alone for the most part.

And yet there are things he doesn't do well even after 4 years. After a nice burst of contract level headedness he seems to have drifted. The Niinimaa trade robbed the team of their best puck moving defender as they went down the stretch with the last remains of the Weight team.

Finally, though, imo there's a disconnect. Something is wrong here and only people within the organization can know what exactly it is. The scouts love Rita and the coach doesn't know his name, the GM signed a crazy ass contract with furniture boy but the coach can't get along with him. The 4 million dollar goalie can't be bothered to spend a little time with the goalie coach in the summer. The kid they drafted 4 years ago is blind as a bat and no one knew it until he played catch with the scouting director.

I think the entire situation comes into focus around the center position. I'm not going to go through the list again, but last winter (I've been looking for it) Kevin Lowe said something like "well, I've talked to the coaches and they feel they can make do with what they have."

It came at a time when the Oilers had a retiree, a rookie, an AHL player and Horcoff playing center.

Disconnect.

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