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[EDM/CAR/LA/BUF] 4-way trade (details inside)

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Old
03-06-2009, 05:18 AM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranleblanc View Post
Hemsky better playmaker than Kopitar......are you serious, wow, some people. You would have to watch Kopitar before saying crazy things like that. Hemsky is good and all, but you can"t go saying crazy things like that.
I like Koptitar and all but Hemsky is just on another level.
Hemsky is imo one of the top 5 most talented players in this league, he underachieves in proportion to his skill level, but to say Kopitar is as good a player as him, or even as good a playmaker as him is just ridiculous.
To top it of you added a "are you serious, wow, some people" to your post, frankly you dont know what your talking about.

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Old
03-06-2009, 05:35 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by ukyo View Post
Uhh...

Kopitar has 32 assists in 63 games
Hemsky has 32 assists in 53 games

I think that says that Hemsky is a better playmaker. Now, that may still not mean that O'Sullivan is going to go and pot 30 goals next season, but it's definitely not going to hurt.

Don't get me wrong, I love Anze, but you have to be a little objective here.
Make that 34 assists in 64 games for Kopitar. =)

In all seriousness, though, Kopitar put up 86 assists in his first two seasons as a 19 and 20 year old. Hemsky, in his first two seasons as a 19 and 20 year old, put up 46. You be the judge.

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Old
03-06-2009, 05:51 AM
  #228
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Moller drew a penalty late in the game in an area O'Sullivan has never been to, the front of the net....

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03-06-2009, 08:42 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
And Pisani adds elite PK ability, leadership, etc. etc.
And? You brought Pisani's name into the discussion but still are missing the point. You looked solely at Cole's point totals, which was a mistake, and now are citing other qualities about Pisani which are little more than apples to oranges comparisons. Not to mention the fact that Pisani wasn't even a primary killer that year in the playoffs for the Oilers, hardly qualifying as elite.

In any event, the point is that Cole's contributions which aren't reflected in his point totals, were tone-setting and game-changing elements. His speed and hitting helped dictate the pace and set the tone for many of those games. What Pisani did in other categories didn't make nearly the same impact.

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03-06-2009, 09:16 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by alesmarv View Post
I like Koptitar and all but Hemsky is just on another level.
Hemsky is imo one of the top 5 most talented players in this league, he underachieves in proportion to his skill level, but to say Kopitar is as good a player as him, or even as good a playmaker as him is just ridiculous.
To top it of you added a "are you serious, wow, some people" to your post, frankly you dont know what your talking about.

Do you actually believe that or is this a joke ?Hemsky LOL; top 5 talent in the league LOL; GO OILERS ; why doesnt he get a top 5 contract than or at least like Kopitars 6,7m as a 21 year old ? Some canadian fans; oh boy

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Old
03-06-2009, 09:31 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by slovenija View Post
Do you actually believe that or is this a joke ?Hemsky LOL; top 5 talent in the league LOL; GO OILERS ; why doesnt he get a top 5 contract than or at least like Kopitars 6,7m as a 21 year old ? Some canadian fans; oh boy
Wow, you're actually using contracts to rate how good a player is? So you must not think that Malkin is very good because he is making less than Hemsky - and Zetterburg must just suck because he is making less than both. But Guerin, Weight, Penner, Malone, and Rolston must all be better than Hemsky because they are making more...








oh, I almost forgot - LOL

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03-06-2009, 09:42 AM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcoffee View Post
Wow, you're actually using contracts to rate how good a player is? So you must not think that Malkin is very good because he is making less than Hemsky - and Zetterburg must just suck because he is making less than both. But Guerin, Weight, Penner, Malone, and Rolston must all be better than Hemsky because they are making more...








oh, I almost forgot - LOL
No; I am looking at second contracts they both signed, after rookie contracts; this contracts are based on potential the players have.
BTW Malkin making less ?
I wouldn even trade Frolov from the Kings for Hemsky

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03-06-2009, 09:44 AM
  #233
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age discrepancy says hi.

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03-06-2009, 10:08 AM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slovenija View Post
I wouldn even trade Frolov from the Kings for Hemsky
Mike Milbury, is that you?

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Old
03-06-2009, 10:19 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by slovenija View Post
No; I am looking at second contracts they both signed, after rookie contracts; this contracts are based on potential the players have.
BTW Malkin making less ?
I wouldn even trade Frolov from the Kings for Hemsky
Yes, Malkin is making less (3,834,200 - look it up). And you missed my point entirely. To say that Hemsky is a lesser player because his deal is a good one, doesn't make any sense.

But if you just want to focus on second contracts (even though you never said anything about that in your initial post) than you are actually admitting that Penner is a better player over Hemsky because he is making more?

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Old
03-06-2009, 10:29 AM
  #236
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It's hardly a 4 way trade.. 3 seperate deals.

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Old
03-06-2009, 10:30 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcoffee View Post
Yes, Malkin is making less (3,834,200 - look it up). And you missed my point entirely. To say that Hemsky is a lesser player because his deal is a good one, doesn't make any sense.

But if you just want to focus on second contracts (even though you never said anything about that in your initial post) than you are actually admitting that Penner is a better player over Hemsky because he is making more?

Well if you look at this year than Kopi is also making 800k USD; Malkin signed 5 year 43,5M. Kopitar signed 7 years 47,6 and Hemsky 6 years 24,6. This guys are not in the same class; sorry

and the point is that second contracts are based on players potential.


You know that Penner was RFA and that is another story.

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Old
03-06-2009, 10:33 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Heavy Fuel View Post
Mike Milbury, is that you?
You can call me whatever you wont; I think that Frolov is the better overall player and much less injury prone.

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Old
03-06-2009, 10:43 AM
  #239
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Keep talking, you are building up credibility with every post.

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Old
03-06-2009, 11:00 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by slovenija View Post
Well if you look at this year than Kopi is also making 800k USD; Malkin signed 5 year 43,5M. Kopitar signed 7 years 47,6 and Hemsky 6 years 24,6. This guys are not in the same class; sorry

and the point is that second contracts are based on players potential.


You know that Penner was RFA and that is another story.
Wow, your argument has so many holes it's not even funny. Sometimes you use this years, and sometimes you use next years, but some players don't count.

Either way, you are completely ignoring my point. The fact that Hemsky's contract is a good cap-friendly deal does not mean that he is a bad player. You can't just look at Kopitar's contract and say that because he is going to make more then Hemsky then he has to be the better player. There are good contracts in the league and bad ones. The majority of the board would agree that Hemsky's deal is a good one and that he's probably making less than he 'should' be.

The Frolov thing I won't even get into because the fact that he makes less than Hemsky but in your mind is the better player is so hypocritical that it would just make you look like a fool.

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03-06-2009, 11:04 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Heavy Fuel View Post
Keep talking, you are building up credibility with every post.
So because he believes that Frolov is the better overall player, which some are going to agree with, he doesnt have credibility? Hemsky while being a better offensive talent has surpassed Frolovs best year by 6 pts. Frolov is arguably the more complete player when looking at his defensive play. So no its not hard to say Frolov is the better OVERALL player.

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03-06-2009, 11:20 AM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcoffee View Post
Wow, your argument has so many holes it's not even funny. Sometimes you use this years, and sometimes you use next years, but some players don't count.

Either way, you are completely ignoring my point. The fact that Hemsky's contract is a good cap-friendly deal does not mean that he is a bad player. You can't just look at Kopitar's contract and say that because he is going to make more then Hemsky then he has to be the better player. There are good contracts in the league and bad ones. The majority of the board would agree that Hemsky's deal is a good one and that he's probably making less than he 'should' be.

The Frolov thing I won't even get into because the fact that he makes less than Hemsky but in your mind is the better player is so hypocritical that it would just make you look like a fool.
What you dont understand ? I am talking about SECOND CONTRACTS. If somebody in the league thought Hemsky was worth more than 4M per year they would have offered him more when he was RFA, wouldn they ? Or he didnt wont to leave Edmonton becuse of the great weather you have up there,....
Yes Hemsky is worth 4M.

And when you are talking about cap friendly contracts Frolovs is one of the top in the league. Hemsky is more talented than Frolov but Frolov is the better overall player in this moment; hell he is even better overall player than Kopitar in this moment.


Last edited by slovenija: 03-06-2009 at 11:25 AM.
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Old
03-06-2009, 11:25 AM
  #243
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Really people?

A: I have an opinion.
B: I have an opinion.
A: I derived my opinion partly from facts.
B: I believe your facts are wrong, therefore your opinions are wrong.
A: My facts are right, here is proof, therefore your opinions are wrong.
B: I value myself more, therefore I place your character into question. Your opinion is no longer valid.
A: Due to my emotional response, I shall slander you.
B: In defense, I shall slander you.
C: This seems to have become an issue about yourselves instead of the subject of your opinions.
A&B: Shut up!

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03-06-2009, 11:29 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by slovenija View Post
What you dont understand ? I am talking about SECOND CONTRACTS. If somebody in the league thought Hemsky was worth more than 4M per year they would have offered him more when he was RFA, wouldn they ? Or he didnt wont to leave Edmonton becuse of the great weather you have up there,....
Yes Hemsky is worth 4M.

And when you are talking about cap friendly contracts Frolovs is one of the top in the league. Hemsky is more talented than Frolov but Frolov is the better overall player in this moment; hell he is even better overall player than Kopitar in this moment.
I thought Hemsky signed an extension BEFORE he became a RFA...

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Old
03-06-2009, 11:45 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
He plays the PK and was voted 'best defensive player' by his team last year.
Yeah. I was VERY impressed with him defensively last night at the Oilers vs. Sens game.

He didn't generate much offensively, but he was a pest in the O-zone at any rate.

Defensively and on the PK though? He always stuck to his man tightly, blocked a couple of shots, and looked like the fastest player on the ice. They basically had him roaming in the high slot on the PK and he was quick enough to get in every passing and shooting lane on the ice. Very noticeable in his d-zone coverage.

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Old
03-06-2009, 11:48 AM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertigo5 View Post
A: I have an opinion.
B: I have an opinion.
A: I derived my opinion partly from facts.
B: I believe your facts are wrong, therefore your opinions are wrong.
A: My facts are right, here is proof, therefore your opinions are wrong.
B: I value myself more, therefore I place your character into question. Your opinion is no longer valid.
A: Due to my emotional response, I shall slander you.
B: In defense, I shall slander you.
C: This seems to have become an issue about yourselves instead of the subject of your opinions.
A&B: Shut up!
Very well put. But with only a 4 post counter, your insight doesn't matter.

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:32 PM
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranleblanc View Post
Hemsky better playmaker than Kopitar......are you serious, wow, some people. You would have to watch Kopitar before saying crazy things like that. Hemsky is good and all, but you can"t go saying crazy things like that.
You're supposed to put at the end of that. Otherwise I'll think you're serious.

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:55 PM
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Fuel View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by slovenija View Post
I wouldn even trade Frolov from the Kings for Hemsky
Mike Milbury, is that you?
Well..... maybe at the end of next season I might, or if I know I can't get Frolov signed long-term for something reasonable.

All things contract-wise being equal (i.e., just based on player value alone), I would absolutely NOT trade Frolov for Hemsky.

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Old
03-06-2009, 02:33 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by slovenija View Post
What you dont understand ? I am talking about SECOND CONTRACTS. If somebody in the league thought Hemsky was worth more than 4M per year they would have offered him more when he was RFA, wouldn they ? Or he didnt wont to leave Edmonton becuse of the great weather you have up there,....
Yes Hemsky is worth 4M.

And when you are talking about cap friendly contracts Frolovs is one of the top in the league. Hemsky is more talented than Frolov but Frolov is the better overall player in this moment; hell he is even better overall player than Kopitar in this moment.
So are you still sticking to your initial argument that Kopitar is the better player because he is making more money than Hemsky? I'm just checking. BTW that's the third time you ignored my point, and I am making it the last.

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Old
03-06-2009, 03:26 PM
  #250
slovenija
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcoffee View Post
So are you still sticking to your initial argument that Kopitar is the better player because he is making more money than Hemsky? I'm just checking. BTW that's the third time you ignored my point, and I am making it the last.

I havent ignored anything; what the hell do you wont ?

Kopitar is the more talented player and yes the second contract which is based on players potential is showing that I am right.

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