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Would Colorado be interested dealing their 1st in 09?

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03-06-2009, 10:56 AM
  #1
DougGilmour93
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Would Colorado be interested dealing their 1st in 09?

Would Colorado be willing to deal their top 5 pick (currently 4th) to Toronto for Toronto's Top 10 pick(currently 9th) + a 2nd in 09?

I could than see Toronto trading Kaberle for another top 10 pick+ potentially.

I'd like to see Toronto draft Brayden Schenn and Scott Glennie




Thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers



EDITED*


Last edited by DougGilmour93: 03-06-2009 at 11:56 AM.
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03-06-2009, 11:00 AM
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OilTownHero
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I don't think Colorado would do this to have Kaberle for 1 year. They need more depth in their prospects group in my opinion.

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03-06-2009, 11:03 AM
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crusen86
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Not even remotely close. Colorado is severely retooling, and Kaberle - as good as he is - isn't worth trading the 1st for in our situation, let alone Colorado's best defenceman (well, arguably - wow, that's depressing) and one of their better prospects.

I can't see asset that Toronto has that would even tempt Colorado to trade their first.

Kaberle for something along the lines of Salei, Hensick and a lower pick could work on Colorado's side, but I would imagine Toronto could get more for Kaberle elsewhere.

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03-06-2009, 11:06 AM
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Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilEberle View Post
I don't think Colorado would do this to have Kaberle for 1 year. They need more depth in their prospects group in my opinion.

While I agree that Kaberle does not come close to that kind of value, he is signed for two more years not one. And, to boot, he signed for way under market value.

I would not be shocked to see him get the type of package that Calgary gave to Los Angeles last year - a mid round first and a prospect or two.

I don't think he'll get anywhere near what Burke is hoping for though.

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03-06-2009, 11:10 AM
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Mr Jiggyfly
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Burke said he doesn't think it is right to ask a player to waive their no trade clause, as you have to be a well respected veteran to earn one in your contract.

I think Kubina's NTC option expires if the Leafs miss the playoffs this season...

So he may trade Kubina, but I doubt he will move Kaberle.

Burke said he would be really aggressive in UFA and make his mark.

The Leafs could easily be a playoff caliber team next season with the right moves.

So why trade Kaberle? He has a good contract with a very manageable cap hit... the picks/prospects you get back for him may never even see the NHL...

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03-06-2009, 11:12 AM
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Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
Burke said he doesn't think it is right to ask a player to waive their no trade clause, as you have to be a well respected veteran to earn one in your contract.

I think Kubina's NTC option expires if the Leafs miss the playoffs this season...

So he may trade Kubina, but I doubt he will move Kaberle.

Burke said he would be really aggressive in UFA and make his mark.

The Leafs could easily be a playoff caliber team next season with the right moves.

So why trade Kaberle? He has a good contract with a very manageable cap hit... the picks/prospects you get back for him may never even see the NHL...
That isn't what Burke said. He said that he could understand and respect a player refusing to waive his NTC, and the think a player has a right to do so. He had apparently asked Kubina about waiving, and Kubina said no. He had also got a list of potential trade partners from Kaberle, so he also asked Kaberle.

Personally, I think Burke played all this very well.

I partially agree with your last point. But, from Toronto's perspective, they've done a great job of retooling with young kids. It could make sense to deal more older players to add fuel to a rebuild that is starting to pay off nicely.

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03-06-2009, 11:23 AM
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DougGilmour93
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Thanks for the quick responses guys. What do you think an idea deal would be if Kaberle and Colorado's 1st was involved?

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03-06-2009, 11:26 AM
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Coug555
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I seriously doubt Colorado gives up their 1st this year. I can see them moving down but not giving it up completely. They've traded away too many first rounders and I think hopefully they've learned from their mistakes.

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03-06-2009, 11:27 AM
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Darth Milbury
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I think what they are telling you is they don't see Col wanting Kaberle, and they don't see Col trading it's first. So, the fundamental premises of your deal seem unworkable (at least if you are going by Avs fans).

I think Kaberle will make much more sense to a contender. Let's say, for example, that Neidermayer retires, and Anaheim is not convinced Whitney can fill the slack.

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03-06-2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I think what they are telling you is they don't see Col wanting Kaberle, and they don't see Col trading it's first. So, the fundamental premises of your deal seem unworkable (at least if you are going by Avs fans).
Precisely.

Colorado is the wrong team to call upon for the unloading of Kaberle. In fact, Colorado and Toronto are probably bad trading partners for any big deal since both are at similar rebuilding crossroads with almost the same needs and concerns.

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03-06-2009, 11:39 AM
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Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
That isn't what Burke said. He said that he could understand and respect a player refusing to waive his NTC, and the think a player has a right to do so. He had apparently asked Kubina about waiving, and Kubina said no. He had also got a list of potential trade partners from Kaberle, so he also asked Kaberle.
No Burke flat out said he didn't think it was right to ask a player to waive their no trade clause...

He then went on to say only players of certain stature get a NTC.

He then expanded on the subject even further and said that when a player who has earned the right to have a NTC is asked to waive it, that puts him in a position to look bad in the fans eyes if he refuses.

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03-06-2009, 11:41 AM
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Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
No Burke flat out said he didn't think it was right to ask a player to waive their no trade clause...

He then went on to say only players of certain stature get a NTC.

He then expanded on the subject even further and said that when a player who has earned the right to have a NTC is asked to waive it, that puts him in a position to look bad in the fans eyes if he refuses.
Nope.

Burke was widely publicized to have asked Kaberle for a list of team's he'd accept a team to. Therefore, he already asked Kaberle to wavie his NTC and mutiple sources confirm that. Right off the bat, that disproves your claim that Burke doesn't believe in getting vets to waive their NTCs.

Here is his actual quote:

http://www.islanderspointblank.com/page/3/

Burke said no-move-clauser Pavel Kubina has told him he wants to be a Maple Leaf and does not want to name teams that it’s okay to deal him to. Burke said it’s unfair for fans and media to criticize a player who bargained for a no-trade clause and want it honored. He said a Tomas Kaberle trade will also be difficult to make. Kaberle’s no-move goes away at the NHL Draft in June if the Leafs do not make the playoffs this season. Kaberle also wants to stay, but - hoping to have some control of his destiny - gave a list to Burke of 10 teams he would prefer to be traded to.


Burke never so much as hinted asking a player to waive his NTC was off limits.

On the other hand, I'll acknowledge that he could have made two different comments in different interviews.


Last edited by Darth Milbury: 03-06-2009 at 11:50 AM.
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03-06-2009, 11:45 AM
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Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Link?
http://mapleleafs.nhl.tv/team/consol...id=22&id=35518

Click on Kaberle/Kubina

He flat out says it isn't right to ask a player to waive their NTC and it is a breach of trust.

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03-06-2009, 11:46 AM
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DougGilmour93
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Well who in the bottom 5 might consider dealing their pick in a deal fro Kaberle or Kaberle+, in your opinion?. I can't imagine anyone would deal the 1st 2 picks?

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03-06-2009, 11:46 AM
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Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
http://mapleleafs.nhl.tv/team/consol...id=22&id=35518

Click on Kaberle/Kubina

He flat out says it isn't right to ask a player to waive their NTC and it is a breach of trust.

See my above post. He already asked both Kaberle and Kubina to waive their respective NTCs so you are incorrect.

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03-06-2009, 11:47 AM
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grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
No Burke flat out said he didn't think it was right to ask a player to waive their no trade clause...

He then went on to say only players of certain stature get a NTC.

He then expanded on the subject even further and said that when a player who has earned the right to have a NTC is asked to waive it, that puts him in a position to look bad in the fans eyes if he refuses.
He did say this. Kaberle waived his NTC at the deadline voluntarily. However, he's also aware that their NTC's evaporate in the summer, so nothing he's said so far can be taken to mean anything this summer.

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03-06-2009, 11:48 AM
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DougGilmour93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
http://mapleleafs.nhl.tv/team/consol...id=22&id=35518

Click on Kaberle/Kubina

He flat out says it isn't right to ask a player to waive their NTC and it is a breach of trust.
He might not ask them to waive it, but both Kaberle and Kubina have clauses in their deals that allows Toronto a window of oppurtunity during the summer in which they can be dealt.

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03-06-2009, 11:49 AM
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Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Well who in the bottom 5 might consider dealing their pick in a deal fro Kaberle or Kaberle+, in your opinion?. I can't imagine anyone would deal the 1st 2 picks?
The answer is probably no team. The Leafs are not getting a top five pick in return for Kaberle.

Avs - rebuilding
Isles - rebuilding
Thrashers - rebuilding
Ottawa - just give up a first for Campoli


The only glimer of light might be Tampa, since they have some high level vets that can move them toward contention quickly, and need help n defense. However, I don't see Kaberle as being nearly enough to get the fourth overall in a draft this strong.

A fair deal though:

Tampa: Kaberle, Schenn
Toronto: 4th overall, 2nd round pick

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03-06-2009, 11:50 AM
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Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
See my above post. He already asked both Kaberle and Kubina to waive their respective NTCs so you are incorrect.
No, I'm right.

Burke just said ppl. hear what they want to hear and it is a breach of trust to ask a player to waive their NTC.

He comes right out and says it... I didn't put those words in his mouth.

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03-06-2009, 11:51 AM
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DougGilmour93
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I wonder if they dealt their pick (currently 9th overall) and a 2nd for a top 5 pick maybe? Than Toronto could deal Kaberle to a team with a top 10 pick? That's probably more likely now that I think about it.

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03-06-2009, 11:52 AM
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Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
He did say this. Kaberle waived his NTC at the deadline voluntarily. However, he's also aware that their NTC's evaporate in the summer, so nothing he's said so far can be taken to mean anything this summer.
The point I made is easy to understand...

Burke didn't ask Kaberle to waive his NTC.

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03-06-2009, 11:54 AM
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Chileiceman
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Next season will probably be a rebuilding one for the Avs. I would love to have Kaberle, but it would be kind of pointless. I would rather the Avs sign him as a UFA than trade for him.

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03-06-2009, 11:54 AM
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Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
He might not ask them to waive it, but both Kaberle and Kubina have clauses in their deals that allows Toronto a window of oppurtunity during the summer in which they can be dealt.
I believe I mentioned that already about Kubina, but I wasn't sure about Kaberle.

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03-06-2009, 11:54 AM
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grabo84
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Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
No, I'm right.

Burke just said ppl. hear what they want to hear and it is a breach of trust to ask a player to waive their NTC.

He comes right out and says it... I didn't put those words in his mouth.
No, I don't think you're entirely right. Burke was double-talking there. He knew that their agents were aware of the upcoming window in their NTC's, and that they would consider waiving it on their own. This meant that he didn't have to ask them to waive their NTC.

Since the clauses disappear this summer, he'll never have to ask them to waive.

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03-06-2009, 11:55 AM
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Darth Milbury
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The point I made is easy to understand...

Burke didn't ask Kaberle to waive his NTC.
And, I still say you are incorrect. Burke is widely documented to have received a list of teams that Kaberle was willing to take a trade to. he says that unequivocally in the link above.

Maybe it is a technical thing here. He probably never said "Tomas, I'd like you to waive your NTC." Instead, he said "Tomas, are there any teams that you would accept a trade to if I got it worked out?"

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