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Would Colorado be interested dealing their 1st in 09?

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Old
03-06-2009, 11:58 AM
  #26
grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Maybe it is a technical thing here. He probably never said "Tomas, I'd like you to waive your NTC." Instead, he said "Tomas, are there any teams that you would accept a trade to if I got it worked out?"
Yeah, this is probably what happened. Plus he gets to posture in the media about how he doesn't believe in asking players to waive their NTC's. Sounds about right to me.

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Old
03-06-2009, 11:58 AM
  #27
DougGilmour93
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Thread updated above.

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Old
03-06-2009, 11:59 AM
  #28
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
And, I still say you are incorrect. Burke is widely documented to have received a list of teams that Kaberle was willing to take a trade to. he says that unequivocally in the link above.

Maybe it is a technical thing here. He probably never said "Tomas, I'd like you to waive your NTC." Instead, he said "Tomas, are there any teams that you would accept a trade to if I got it worked out?"
Kaberle went to Burke and told him he would be willing to waive his NTC, because he went through a similar thing last season.

Maybe you think Burke is a liar, but I see no reason for him to make anything up in this scenario.

He could have easily said he asked Kaberle to waive his NTC and not went off about how it is a breach of trust to do so.

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03-06-2009, 12:03 PM
  #29
grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Would Colorado be willing to deal their top 5 pick (currently 4th) to Toronto for Toronto's Top 10 pick(currently 9th) + a 2nd in 09?

I could than see Toronto trading Kaberle for another top 10 pick+ potentially.

I'd like to see Toronto draft Brayden Schenn and Scott Glennie




Thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers



EDITED*
Quoted, so people can see your edited proposal.

A 2nd isn't enough to move from 9 to 4. Both of our seconds plus another prospect would likely do it. I'd rather see the Leafs move up to 7 or so if they wind up in the 9 spot, there should be some very good players there, and it would cost a bit less.

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03-06-2009, 12:11 PM
  #30
Bubba Thudd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Quoted, so people can see your edited proposal.

A 2nd isn't enough to move from 9 to 4. Both of our seconds plus another prospect would likely do it. I'd rather see the Leafs move up to 7 or so if they wind up in the 9 spot, there should be some very good players there, and it would cost a bit less.
Agreed. With the lottery system in play, Colorado's (currently 4th) pick could end up being first overall.

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:14 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Would Colorado be willing to deal their top 5 pick (currently 4th) to Toronto for Toronto's Top 10 pick(currently 9th) + a 2nd in 09?

I could than see Toronto trading Kaberle for another top 10 pick+ potentially.
Colorado will not be trading their top-5 pick for scraps.

Kaberle is not worth a top-10 pick.

Toronto will NOT be getting 3 picks in the 1st round this summer, let alone 3 in the top 10.


If Leafs fans think this highly of their team when they're out of the playoff picture, I'd hate to see them over-value their players once they actually get a good team together.

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:20 PM
  #32
DougGilmour93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Quoted, so people can see your edited proposal.

A 2nd isn't enough to move from 9 to 4. Both of our seconds plus another prospect would likely do it. I'd rather see the Leafs move up to 7 or so if they wind up in the 9 spot, there should be some very good players there, and it would cost a bit less.
Thanks


What about if they added Poni....???

Poni
1st in 09 (9th ov)
2nd in 09 (???)

for

1st in 09 (4th ov)

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:22 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Agreed. With the lottery system in play, Colorado's (currently 4th) pick could end up being first overall.
I think he assumed that this was after the Lottery. But still, I agree that a fourth overall pick is more valuable than a 9 + 2nd.

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:23 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Thanks


What about if they added Poni....???

Poni
1st in 09 (9th ov)
2nd in 09 (???)

for

1st in 09 (4th ov)
Not sure if they'd want Poni, but that would be closer value.

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:24 PM
  #35
DougGilmour93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCiarniello View Post
Colorado will not be trading their top-5 pick for scraps.

Kaberle is not worth a top-10 pick.

Toronto will NOT be getting 3 picks in the 1st round this summer, let alone 3 in the top 10.


If Leafs fans think this highly of their team when they're out of the playoff picture, I'd hate to see them over-value their players once they actually get a good team together.

In my post Toronto would only end up with 2 1st round picks.

IMO Kaberle could get a 1st (top 10) and either a young player that could play now or a top prospect. Again, that's only my opinion.

Cheers

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:30 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
In my post Toronto would only end up with 2 1st round picks.

IMO Kaberle could get a 1st (top 10) and either a young player that could play now or a top prospect. Again, that's only my opinion.

Cheers
Yeah, Kaberle is easily worth it for a team that wants to contend and needs a PMD. Whether a team will fit the bill is another story.

Tampa, LA, Phoenix, and St. Louis would all be potential top ten teams who might be willing to deal their pick for the right offer. Kaberle might appeal to any of those teams.

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:36 PM
  #37
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Why on earth would the Avs trade away their top 5 pick when they have very little depth in their farm system, and their team...well they are a bottom 5 team.


Also, why don't Toronto fans just stay patient? You guys might end up winning the lottery, don't understand why there are so many threads about Toronto fans wanting to trade for the #1 pick and what not (besides the fact that it would never happen). Just seems kinda stupid cause noone knows who will win the #1 pick, even after the season is over.

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:40 PM
  #38
DougGilmour93
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So let's say....

Kaberle to either PHX or STL for their 1st round pick this year +. What would that plus be? I'd say it's either a top prospect or a young player with upside that could play now. Any thoughts on who they could or would be willing to give up.

IMO both STL and PHX would be in the running for Kaberle as PHX just dealt Morris, and STL was rumoured at acquiring an impact dman (Pronger most recently)

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:42 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
In my post Toronto would only end up with 2 1st round picks.

IMO Kaberle could get a 1st (top 10) and either a young player that could play now or a top prospect. Again, that's only my opinion.

Cheers
He won't.

Do you think Kaberle could net you Filatov, Wilson, Boedker, Bailey, or Hodgson? As a leaf fan you do you think you would get you a better return for Kaberle than Schenn? The answer to both of these questions should be 'no'. With alot of players in last years top-10 making the NHL or coming close you won't see those picks traded.

GMs were talking earlier about how they are afraid of what the cap is going to be in 2 seasons. Teams need good players on entry level contracts to fill the holes when the cap is at 44-46 mill (or whatever it is going to be) and with the way the last class of top-10 draftees are looking it can probably be assumed that alot of this years top-10, which should be just as deep, are going to be making the jump in that season. Having good young players making pennies will save the jobs of alot of GMs in a few years and not will be the cause of alot of firings.

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:51 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Yeah, Kaberle is easily worth it for a team that wants to contend and needs a PMD. Whether a team will fit the bill is another story.

Tampa, LA, Phoenix, and St. Louis would all be potential top ten teams who might be willing to deal their pick for the right offer. Kaberle might appeal to any of those teams.
What kind of weapon must be used in situations like this - where apparently cellar dweller teams WANT to take on more salary and get rid of high draft picks - to get the idea that you're not even close through your head?

Jokinen was just traded from Phoenix in a move that ACQUIRES a 1st, and drops 3 mil in salary off the books. Now you think they MIGHT trade their top-10 pick for 4.25 MORE in salary? There is no deal to be worked out regarding PHO's 1st and Kaberle.

Tampa Bay probably has interest in Kaberle for the sole reason that making a weekly roster move seems to be the norm. They could use defensive help, that's a given, but they're also losing a ****-ton of money and look at the marketing campaign regarding Steven Stamkos - this is a team trying to make some money and build itself properly.

When was the last time Los Angeles traded a high draft pick, let alone a top-10 pick? It goes against everything Lombardi has been preaching for the last few years.



Kaberle still has a lot of value - I think he can be a top-10 defenseman in the league a lot of nights - but more and more teams are waking up to the fact that building through the draft and getting production from players who are signed well below market value (either due to the ELC or an extension before they hit that level of production) is the difference between contenders and pretenders. Nearly every team that is successful - Chicago (Kane/Toews), Pittsburgh (Crosby/Malkin/Staal), San Jose (Pavelski/Clowe), New Jersey (Parise), Washington (Green/Ovechkin/Backstrom/Semin)... It's all on the backs of their young guys.

Kaberle is worth a 1st round pick and a good prospect without a doubt, but I doubt you'll be able to get a top-10 pick in a package based around him. It's just not the direction teams in the league are taking.

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Old
03-06-2009, 12:55 PM
  #41
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Here's an idea - pay Grabovski to wait outside an bash in Gerber's ankle with a tire iron so you have no choice but to ride out Joseph and get a top 5 pick the right way.

Kaberle is not getting you any top 15 picks let alone top 5.

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03-06-2009, 12:57 PM
  #42
DougGilmour93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiablo17 View Post
He won't.

Do you think Kaberle could net you Filatov, Wilson, Boedker, Bailey, or Hodgson? As a leaf fan you do you think you would get you a better return for Kaberle than Schenn? The answer to both of these questions should be 'no'. With alot of players in last years top-10 making the NHL or coming close you won't see those picks traded.

GMs were talking earlier about how they are afraid of what the cap is going to be in 2 seasons. Teams need good players on entry level contracts to fill the holes when the cap is at 44-46 mill (or whatever it is going to be) and with the way the last class of top-10 draftees are looking it can probably be assumed that alot of this years top-10, which should be just as deep, are going to be making the jump in that season. Having good young players making pennies will save the jobs of alot of GMs in a few years and not will be the cause of alot of firings.
He could easily net one of those prospect and than some. People value prospects way to much on these boards. I think people forget that we are talking about a 30 year old allstar defensemen who has 2 years left on an incredible contract (especially in this cap world)

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03-06-2009, 12:57 PM
  #43
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Just two years ago I wanted the Avs to go after Kaberle in the worst way. Obviously the times have dramatically changed. Now the Avs need blue chip prospects more than solid veterans.

I mean they have a realistic shot at Tavares!

The Avs need this pick more than just about any team in the league. I don't see them trading it barring a gross overpayment.

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Old
03-06-2009, 01:00 PM
  #44
DougGilmour93
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Trade proposal...


Tlusty
Kaberle

for

Phx's 1st in 09
Brett McLean
Scottie Upshall

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03-06-2009, 01:03 PM
  #45
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The only way I honestly see them making any deal is if the Leafs involved prospects with the deal. Like if they were to give their 1st plus one of our best prospects like Tlusty. I would never do it myself as I am really liking this guy, but I don't think they would move their first unless another prospect is also coming back to them. Only way I would deal Tlusty with my first if it were for the #1 or 2 pick.

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Old
03-06-2009, 01:06 PM
  #46
DougGilmour93
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Trade Proposal

Tlusty
Kaberle

for

Stl's 1st in 09
Aaron Palushaj
Ben Bishop

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Old
03-06-2009, 01:26 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
A fair deal though:

Tampa: Kaberle, Schenn
Toronto: 4th overall, 2nd round pick
I don't see how that is a fair deal?

I don't think Schenn has shown signs of being a bust at all and he was picked 5th last year in what was then called a top-heavy draft as well.

Would the player they get at 4th this year have so much more worth than Schenn you need to have Kaberle in there to even it out (and well the 2nd coming back from TB)?

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Old
03-06-2009, 01:41 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
The answer is probably no team. The Leafs are not getting a top five pick in return for Kaberle.

Avs - rebuilding
Isles - rebuilding
Thrashers - rebuilding
Ottawa - just give up a first for Campoli


The only glimer of light might be Tampa, since they have some high level vets that can move them toward contention quickly, and need help n defense. However, I don't see Kaberle as being nearly enough to get the fourth overall in a draft this strong.

A fair deal though:

Tampa: Kaberle, Schenn
Toronto: 4th overall, 2nd round pick

Are you kidding me Burke all ready turned down Schenn for a top 5 pick at this years draft. So why would he trade Kaberle for a 2nd rounder. Maybe if this deal was for the first over all pick it might happen even then I doubt it.

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Old
03-06-2009, 01:43 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post

I could than see Toronto trading Kaberle for another top 10 pick+ potentially.


Oh, god.

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Old
03-06-2009, 01:54 PM
  #50
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Burke said it himself that no one called him during the trade deadline for Kaberle because he set the bar very high. Colorado isn't a team where Kaberle is needed. If he was a young Rob Blake I'd love him here but hes just a better and older version of Liles.

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