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Would Colorado be interested dealing their 1st in 09?

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Old
03-06-2009, 02:05 PM
  #51
DougGilmour93
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Maybe Toronto should keep the price set at...

1st in 09
Top Prospect
Young Player with upside that can contribute now


and just deal with someone in the 10-18 Range.

Basically I'd like Toronto to use that draft pick to draft Scott Glennie.

Everyone seems to think a top 10 is not attainable so be it...Burke keeps his asking price and is now allowed to deal with more teams as Kaberle will now have no say where he goes. More teams can get in the bidding.

I could see Anahiem (if they do deal Pronger or lose Niedermayer), Dallas, Columbus, Carolina or Buffalo going after him on draft day

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03-06-2009, 02:14 PM
  #52
grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
What kind of weapon must be used in situations like this - where apparently cellar dweller teams WANT to take on more salary and get rid of high draft picks - to get the idea that you're not even close through your head?

Jokinen was just traded from Phoenix in a move that ACQUIRES a 1st, and drops 3 mil in salary off the books. Now you think they MIGHT trade their top-10 pick for 4.25 MORE in salary? There is no deal to be worked out regarding PHO's 1st and Kaberle.

Tampa Bay probably has interest in Kaberle for the sole reason that making a weekly roster move seems to be the norm. They could use defensive help, that's a given, but they're also losing a ****-ton of money and look at the marketing campaign regarding Steven Stamkos - this is a team trying to make some money and build itself properly.

When was the last time Los Angeles traded a high draft pick, let alone a top-10 pick? It goes against everything Lombardi has been preaching for the last few years.

Kaberle still has a lot of value - I think he can be a top-10 defenseman in the league a lot of nights - but more and more teams are waking up to the fact that building through the draft and getting production from players who are signed well below market value (either due to the ELC or an extension before they hit that level of production) is the difference between contenders and pretenders. Nearly every team that is successful - Chicago (Kane/Toews), Pittsburgh (Crosby/Malkin/Staal), San Jose (Pavelski/Clowe), New Jersey (Parise), Washington (Green/Ovechkin/Backstrom/Semin)... It's all on the backs of their young guys.

Kaberle is worth a 1st round pick and a good prospect without a doubt, but I doubt you'll be able to get a top-10 pick in a package based around him. It's just not the direction teams in the league are taking.
Well, I wasn't saying those teams would necessarily be interested, but that they fit the criteria I laid out - top ten draft pick this year, but want to contend next year. If a team like that already has the necessary young core, and feel they need an elite puck moving defenceman, they might be tempted to make the move for a player like Kaberle. Obviously a team that is starting a rebuild wouldn't do a move like this - examples include the Islanders and Thrashers. Likewise with Toronto.

Edit: So take that post as outlining the only scenario where Toronto might be able to deal for a top ten first with Kaberle. I wasn't saying it was likely.

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03-06-2009, 02:28 PM
  #53
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Jesus Christ.

No bottom 10 team will give up their 1st for Kaberle. No bottom 15 team will give up their 1st for Kaberle. Those proposals are all idiotic. Get it through your head already. Kaberle brings slightly above average production for his cap hit. He's not Mike Green and Shea Weber rolled into one player. He's a 31 year old defenseman with 31 points in 51 games (only 4 goals) playing top pairing minutes.

How about this - Schenn and Mitchell for Roszival. Would you do it? That's essentially the equivalent of what you're asking. Top 10 pick and an ok prospect/young roster player for a puck mover of declining talents with a half decent contract

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03-06-2009, 02:47 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Well who in the bottom 5 might consider dealing their pick in a deal fro Kaberle or Kaberle+, in your opinion?. I can't imagine anyone would deal the 1st 2 picks?
Well I've been saying this all year. I think TB is the best fit for Kaberle for a team near the bottom. They have the pieces to compete but lack a pp dman. It's just my opinion but I think this is the best fit for him. They have the cap space. They have a good mix of youth and quality vets. He seems like one of the key missing pieces.

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03-06-2009, 02:48 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Maybe Toronto should keep the price set at...

1st in 09
Top Prospect
Young Player with upside that can contribute now


and just deal with someone in the 10-18 Range.

Basically I'd like Toronto to use that draft pick to draft Scott Glennie.

Everyone seems to think a top 10 is not attainable so be it...Burke keeps his asking price and is now allowed to deal with more teams as Kaberle will now have no say where he goes. More teams can get in the bidding.

I could see Anahiem (if they do deal Pronger or lose Niedermayer), Dallas, Columbus, Carolina or Buffalo going after him on draft day
Nope. Carolina doesn't have the money under their self-imposed salary structure heading into next season to even think about taking on a contract like Kaberle's. They're currently at 40.4 million heading into next season without having three key players under contract that are likely coming back. Babchuk will probably get about 1.75per/2-3 years, Cole about 3.5per/3 years, Ruutu 3per/3 years, pushing them up over 48.5 million. And that still leaves two holes at forward and one on defense. Bare bones for filling that is another 1.5 million. Canes self imposed cap the past few years has been in the 50 million dollar range so this offseason will take the team right up to it regardless of anything else.

Not to mention if you're thinking the Canes would give up something along the lines of a pick in the 13-18 range, Patrick Eaves and a prospect along the lines of Dalpe or McBain for Kaberle when the team isn't in position to contend... well then I want to know who your dealer is because that has to be some good stuff. Canes are in a rebuilding phase of their own, just not nearly as drastic as what the Leafs are doing right now.

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Old
03-06-2009, 03:00 PM
  #56
DougGilmour93
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What about....

1st in 09 (16th overall currently)
3rd in 09
Tuomu Ruutu
Drayson Bowman

for

Jiri Tlusty
Tomas Kaberle

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Old
03-06-2009, 03:18 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
What about....

1st in 09 (16th overall currently)
Tuomu Ruutu
Patrick Eaves/Chad Larose
Drayson Bowman

for

Jiri Tlusty
Tomas Kaberle
if that's intended comedy then it's pure gold.

If not, it's even worse then the original offer. Absolutely not even close. Adding Tlusty in absolutely no way, shape or form would justify adding Ruutu from a Canes POV.

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03-06-2009, 03:19 PM
  #58
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I did update. I was going to offer Stempniak instead, but you mentioned that they couldn't take on salary. So I offered them the next best thing a cheap young hot prospect that is ripping it up in the AHL. Coming off Player of the month awards.

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03-06-2009, 03:19 PM
  #59
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No chance.

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Old
03-06-2009, 03:46 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
He could easily net one of those prospect and than some. People value prospects way to much on these boards. I think people forget that we are talking about a 30 year old allstar defensemen who has 2 years left on an incredible contract (especially in this cap world)
So it would take less for a team to get Luke Schenn from you than Kaberle?

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Old
03-06-2009, 03:54 PM
  #61
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Old
03-06-2009, 03:56 PM
  #62
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Kaberle could fetch a first rounder for sure. Dont know about a top 5, Cant see a team that low looking to add a player for only [B]2 more years.[B]

But look at last years draft. Eminger and Umberger both got 1sts. Doubt Burke trades him for a 1st straight up though. He would definetly ask for more. But to say a team wouldnt give up a top 15 pick?

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03-06-2009, 03:58 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
See my above post. He already asked both Kaberle and Kubina to waive their respective NTCs so you are incorrect.
Where's your video proof? I'm pretty sure I, among many others, heard Burke flat out say it was wrong to ask a player to waive their NTC.

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03-06-2009, 03:59 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
Kaberle could fetch a first rounder for sure. Dont know about a top 5, Cant see a team that low looking to add a player for only [B]2 more years.[B]

But look at last years draft. Eminger and Umberger both got 1sts. Doubt Burke trades him for a 1st straight up though. He would definetly ask for more. But to say a team wouldnt give up a top 15 pick?
Burke said no team contacted him at the deadline about Kaberle and he thinks it might be because he set the asking price too high. That being said, top 15 pick for Kaberle is underpayment, but I don't think anyone will overpay for Kaberle like Burke asked.

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03-06-2009, 04:02 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
Kaberle could fetch a first rounder for sure. Dont know about a top 5, Cant see a team that low looking to add a player for only [B]2 more years.[B]

But look at last years draft. Eminger and Umberger both got 1sts. Doubt Burke trades him for a 1st straight up though. He would definetly ask for more. But to say a team wouldnt give up a top 15 pick?
A typical 10-15 pick is expected to be a guy who makes the team in the 2nd year of his contract, starts producing for the 2nd and 3rd year, then gets resigned to a relative bargain (compared to his ability) due to RFA status. All the while he keeps developing and improving. Think Bryan Little or someone like Semin. Of course, if Ottawa or Tampa somehow climbs into that region and decides they're absolutely aching for a puck mover, it's possible. Still unlikely, however.

Yeah, a team would have to be extremely, unbelieveably desperate for puck moving defenseman to take 2 years of Kaberle @ 4 million over that. Even if he plays like he's worth 5 million, which I'm not convinced of any more.

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03-06-2009, 04:02 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
Kaberle could fetch a first rounder for sure. Dont know about a top 5, Cant see a team that low looking to add a player for only [B]2 more years.[B]

But look at last years draft. Eminger and Umberger both got 1sts. Doubt Burke trades him for a 1st straight up though. He would definetly ask for more. But to say a team wouldnt give up a top 15 pick?
I can definitely see a team giving up a top 15 or top 20 pick for Kaberle. It just all depends on the direction the team is going in at the time. A team like Carolina with a limited budget that's going through a rebuild of their own? no way. A team like Columbus? That might be another matter entirely depending on how far away they think they are from being solid just yet.

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03-06-2009, 04:30 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Would Colorado be willing to deal their top 5 pick (currently 4th) to Toronto for Toronto's Top 10 pick(currently 9th) + a 2nd in 09?

I could than see Toronto trading Kaberle for another top 10 pick+ potentially.

I'd like to see Toronto draft Brayden Schenn and Scott Glennie




Thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers





EDITED*

nope they are in 27th place they have a shot at a first overall at this years draft

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03-06-2009, 04:31 PM
  #68
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Colorado is one of the last teams that should be trading high draft picks.

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03-06-2009, 04:33 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Where's your video proof? I'm pretty sure I, among many others, heard Burke flat out say it was wrong to ask a player to waive their NTC.
Burke has a window to trade them in the summer(if I understood correctly)to where they have no choice.

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03-06-2009, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
A typical 10-15 pick is expected to be a guy who makes the team in the 2nd year of his contract, starts producing for the 2nd and 3rd year, then gets resigned to a relative bargain (compared to his ability) due to RFA status. All the while he keeps developing and improving. Think Bryan Little or someone like Semin. Of course, if Ottawa or Tampa somehow climbs into that region and decides they're absolutely aching for a puck mover, it's possible. Still unlikely, however.

Yeah, a team would have to be extremely, unbelieveably desperate for puck moving defenseman to take 2 years of Kaberle @ 4 million over that. Even if he plays like he's worth 5 million, which I'm not convinced of any more.
Little and Semin aren't even close to being average 10-15 picks. They'd be pretty much the absolute best you can hope for. Look on TSN for Scott Cullen's breakdown of what you can expect out of a pick in that range.

Edit: This is the breakdown. His average was 4.58, which is right in between an NHL regular and a fringe player.

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/scott_c...s-scott_cullen


Last edited by grabo84: 03-06-2009 at 04:45 PM.
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