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Old
03-05-2009, 11:16 PM
  #51
sg12lw
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Um ... Timonen is not in the top 30 defenseman in goals scored or points, 18th in assists, and 25th in +/-. Not sure what other stats go into it ... he hasn't published an article explaining the stat yet, but it's not hard to believe a statistical based analysis leaves Kimmo out of the first 15.
well then if its ranking players by stats then its still a dumb site imo

if they are ranking by value to his team or whatever, kimmo is in the top 5

stats arent everything

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03-05-2009, 11:23 PM
  #52
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@Gambini

I'm with you. I think baseball is really proving to be the only sport where the aggressively statistics based ___ Prospectus model really works.

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03-05-2009, 11:24 PM
  #53
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Richards had a bad game, and so did just about everyone else.

Honestly I would rather lose like this, and just get blown out then lose a tough game like the Montreal game. Games like this are easy to put behind everyone.
I will say this going forward after tonite, this cannot become a habit down the stetch to come out and play the way they did tonite in the hockey game. Just throw this one in the trash compactor and move on.

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03-05-2009, 11:25 PM
  #54
Readyrock
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Mike does some dicey things in the neutral zone with the puck.

During games like tonight's (where they're laboring to even carry the puck into the offensive zone), they don't show any respect to Mikey. Defenders are leaning forward into his face before he hits the red line.

It's the beginning of the longest home-stand of the season, we have a couple games in-hand, and we have a firm foothold in the playoffs. If they have a significant problem to deal with, I'm more comfortable that they deal with it now.

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03-05-2009, 11:57 PM
  #55
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mike's biggest problems aren't necessarily the turnovers, rather their location. he has a habit of turning it over near both bluelines (more offensive b-line, though). it's an issue, but i'm sure he'll bounce back, and as time goes on he'll get better at it.

the most alarming thing is when these turnovers lead to odd-man rushes/goals, which he needs to watch out for.

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03-06-2009, 12:57 AM
  #56
GoneFullHextall
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Its been mentioned before as well too that even in the defensive zone he will try and force a pass into the center ice area, which at times this season which has led to dangerous scoring chances with the opposition.
Yes I know it is not just him. many players on this team dont always make the correct decision with the puck.

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Old
03-06-2009, 08:15 AM
  #57
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I think those kind of imprudent plays, "forcing the puck", are not uncommon for young players. Most of them grow out of it, Richards will too.

Lots of times, a teammate being in the wrong position can make a guy look like a doof too.

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Old
03-06-2009, 11:39 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Lots of times, a teammate being in the wrong position can make a guy look like a doof too.
I noticed last night on a couple of his turnovers in the neutral zone that not only did he have the one guy covering him, but Knuble and Gagne skated to the opposite blue line and stopped with guys on them too. There was almost no play for Richards to make until he hits the red line - unfortunately he turned it over before he could dump it.

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03-06-2009, 12:00 PM
  #59
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Richie had a bad game, but he'll bounce back fine, no need to get alarmed.

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03-06-2009, 12:47 PM
  #60
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I've read through the entire post. Agreed Richie had a bad game and had too many turnovers. Calgary was clogging up the passing lanes and seemed to have two forwards up forechecking. That changes the way you have to bring the puck out of the zone. Maybe all the games that Richie is turning it over are against teams that press the forecheck. If that is the case, he needs his coach to point it out. I'm not sure Stevens has a way to deal with the forecheck.
Just my thoughts

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Old
03-06-2009, 01:02 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Yep. Guys that play a lot of minutes and have the puck a lot are going to have a lot of stats in their favour - not just the good kind, either.

Tonight was especially bad for Richards and sometimes he forces plays like he thinks he's more skilled than he is - usually in games where the team is playing like ****.
Exactly what I was about to say, i think this sums it up perfectly.

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Old
03-06-2009, 01:25 PM
  #62
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Jones - worst dman in the league when you take his contract into consideration.
Sorry Opus, you have been replaced. With a quote like this... Mota becomes my favorite poster here.

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Old
03-06-2009, 02:01 PM
  #63
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just a case of Richards trying to do too much. I'm way less concerned with neutral zone turnovers by forwards as I am with D being unable to clear the zone and turning it over. Defensive zone turnovers are way more likely to end up in the net (with the odd exception of the flames game).

Trust me I'm a goalie.

Ossi, even though he apparently didn't hit as much as people wanted, didn't turn the puck over, and was able to play top pair for most of the season. I like those D better than the D who get brain farts with the puck. Thus my hatred for jones and alberts.

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03-06-2009, 05:42 PM
  #64
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When you have the puck as much as Richards does your bound to have more turnovers than most guys. With that being said he had a brutal game last night, but he'll bounce back.

I think the team needs a shake up. The Hartnell-Carter-Lupul line has fallen flat and I'm not sure what to expect out of the Carcillo-Giroux-Powe/Nodl line. I say we put Giroux on Carter's wing with Lupul and make a Carcillo-Powe-Hartnell checking line just to see what happens.

Odds are there will be a dumb penalty every other time those guys are on the ice but with the exception of the third period of the Bruins game this team has not been clicking in the offensive zone. When they try to carry the puck in they turn it over and when they dump it in they are losing the battles in deep. I'm sick of Richards, Gagne, Carter, and Lupul trying to finesse their way into the zone, I want some hard work and crisp passing and maybe shaking things up a bit will send a message.

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Old
03-06-2009, 06:12 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
I'm sick of Richards, Gagne, Carter, and Lupul trying to finesse their way into the zone, I want some hard work and crisp passing and maybe shaking things up a bit will send a message.
Dump and chase is not a winning hockey style anymore.

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Old
03-06-2009, 06:41 PM
  #66
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richards was a turd tonight. you know he will dominate the next game though.
I sure hope so.....just bought tix for tomorrows gave vs Nashville. Sitting down low next to the sin bin....much to the approval of my youngest son who hates sitting up high.

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03-06-2009, 06:43 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
I'm way less concerned with neutral zone turnovers by forwards as I am with D being unable to clear the zone and turning it over.
I think this is the Flyers biggest problem...they just can't clear the zone and I figure it's gonna cost us more than anything else in the playoffs.

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03-06-2009, 07:21 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
@Gambini

I'm with you. I think baseball is really proving to be the only sport where the aggressively statistics based ___ Prospectus model really works.
Given Puck prospectus has been open for like 2 weeks, I think it's a little early to know that.

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Old
03-06-2009, 07:27 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Dump and chase is not a winning hockey style anymore.

If it only it were this simple!





...alas, it's not.

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Old
03-06-2009, 07:42 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Mota View Post
For everything Richards brings to the table I can live with it...in ****** efforts like this he seems like he tries to do it all on his own...going up against guys like Iginla that isnt gonna work...but i appreciate the effort.

If you really want someone to ***** at...here a list of guys...

Carter - hasnt done **** since december...hes netted to occasional goal but has not been the same player we saw in the first half.

Briere - what more can i say?

Jones - worst dman in the league when you take his contract into consideration.

Lupul - Only plays when he wants it seems.
all correct but Richards has been trying too hard to be creative nonetheless

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Old
03-06-2009, 07:43 PM
  #71
UseYourAllusion
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Given Puck prospectus has been open for like 2 weeks, I think it's a little early to know that.
It is way too soon to tell, and I'm giving them a chance. I really hope it works, I swear by my Baseball Prospectus. But, I found Pro Football Prospectus thoroughly underwhelming.

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Old
03-06-2009, 07:45 PM
  #72
MountainHawk
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I find the football version great for fantasy, but not so much for real life football.

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03-06-2009, 07:48 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I find the football version great for fantasy, but not so much for real life football.
I guess that's the thing. The baseball version is pretty brilliant in real life too.

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Old
03-06-2009, 08:00 PM
  #74
MountainHawk
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I guess that's the thing. The baseball version is pretty brilliant in real life too.
Yup ... baseball is the 'easiest' of the sports, because the events are all distinct. Football and Hockey are going to take longer to get meaningful stats.

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Old
03-06-2009, 08:14 PM
  #75
UseYourAllusion
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Yup ... baseball is the 'easiest' of the sports, because the events are all distinct. Football and Hockey are going to take longer to get meaningful stats.
I think this point is dead on. The one-one in baseball is inherently quantifiable, while the way in which players affect the play off the ball in football, basketball or hockey is much more ambiguous.

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