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Do you think this team will ALWAYS hire francophone-only coaches?(or bilingual)

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Old
03-07-2009, 08:52 AM
  #51
ludger
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
What is a sports franchise to you? Once you arrive at a definition, you'll better understand the importance of being inclusive to the fan base. Secondly, there are plenty of good, qualified french-speaking coaches that have been hugely successful. In the long run, I don't really think it would've mattered had the Habs considered English-speaking only coaches in the hiring process along the way. They've won 24 cups applying this philosophy. Maybe other clubs should hire only French-speaking coaches. They might win more cups.
right on, great post

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03-07-2009, 10:03 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
While technically it's true, reality is non francophones coaches in the NHL right now don't speak french, so in practice, if you want your coach to be bilingual, chances are he'll be a francophone.
Pat Burns, Scotty Bowman and Toe Blake are francophones? What about Brian Mulroney? Gainey? By that logic, Demers, Therien and Julien are all anglophone because they speak English. It's fairly clear what the thread starter and many others here have in mind when singling out "francophones." There are many anglophones who speak French, there are many francophones who speak English. Having a bilingual coach in Montreal is a good thing for the fanbase and media who religiously cover the team. And considering there are plenty of bilingual coaches out there, I don't think it's such a compromise to hire one. I don't think anglo hab fans would much enjoy having a coach that didn't speak a word of English either.

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03-07-2009, 10:11 AM
  #53
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IMO, the team and organization's priority should be to win games, not talk to the fans and media. If the coach can communicate with the players in a language they understand and can respond to, both on and off the ice, then I really don't care what that language is.

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03-07-2009, 10:16 AM
  #54
Ross MacLochness
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
I don't think anglo hab fans would much enjoy having a coach that didn't speak a word of English either.
I think you understand that this makes absolutely no sense.

No coach can get a job in this league without speaking English. A player from Russia who wants to play in the NHL HAS to learn English to communicate with his coach and his teammates. A player from Slovakia HAS to learn English. A player from Belarus HAS to learn English. A francophone player HAS to learn English.

If a coach is speaking to his entire hockey team before or after game or in practice he speaks English and only English.

But our coach HAS to speak french. Ok whatever.

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03-07-2009, 10:19 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by redmachine54 View Post
IMO, the team and organization's priority should be to win games, not talk to the fans and media.
It's part of league rules that players and coaches talk to the media and fans. The more attention a team receives, the more people take an interest in the team and get excited about the players. The more fans spend money on the team, the more the team has money to spend on players and build winning franchises. See the logic? A sports franchise doesn't exist in isolation, it exists as part of the fabric of a community, both at a local and global level. It makes no sense to imagine them completely cut off from everyone because their existence depends on fan interest, which is stoked by media coverage.

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03-07-2009, 10:24 AM
  #56
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The team has never hired a francophon only coach in his 100 years...

I guess you meant hiring a coach who must speaks french... in that case, my answer is yes... They will always hire a coach who speaks french.

Do they have to? No, they don't, but the backfiring of hiring a coach who doesn't speak french could be too important...

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03-07-2009, 10:25 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
I think you understand that this makes absolutely no sense.

No coach can get a job in this league without speaking English. A player from Russia who wants to play in the NHL HAS to learn English to communicate with his coach and his teammates. A player from Slovakia HAS to learn English. A player from Belarus HAS to learn English. A francophone player HAS to learn English.

If a coach is speaking to his entire hockey team before or after game or in practice he speaks English and only English.

But our coach HAS to speak french. Ok whatever.
...and this is the reason why you'll never understand "what Quebec wants"...

Anyway, this shouldn't even be part of the debate, the question is will they always hire one... not "would you hire one"...

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03-07-2009, 10:26 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
The thread-starter's question is a not-so-thinly-veiled shot at francophones, imo since the habs have had several successful Anglo coaches who also spoke French.


Are you ****ing serious?

I was just suggesting that (in my opinion) we're in big trouble as a franchise if we HAVE to limit our choices to francophone or bilingual coaches..

I don't have anything against francophones..I don't speak french, but practically my whole family does on one side.

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03-07-2009, 10:27 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
Pat Burns, Scotty Bowman and Toe Blake are francophones? What about Brian Mulroney? Gainey? By that logic, Demers, Therien and Julien are all anglophone because they speak English. It's fairly clear what the thread starter and many others here have in mind when singling out "francophones." There are many anglophones who speak French, there are many francophones who speak English. Having a bilingual coach in Montreal is a good thing for the fanbase and media who religiously cover the team. And considering there are plenty of bilingual coaches out there, I don't think it's such a compromise to hire one. I don't think anglo hab fans would much enjoy having a coach that didn't speak a word of English either.
Or...just throwing this out there...maybe the OP means 'guy that can communicate in French'. I think he just misused the term 'francophone', which means someone who's primarily French. I'm pretty sure he means bilingual. Two of our last three coaches were not Francophone (Gainey and Julien) so it makes more sense.

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03-07-2009, 10:28 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Or...just throwing this out there...maybe the OP means 'guy that can communicate in French'. I think he just misused the term. I'm pretty sure he means bilingual. Two of our last three coaches were not Francophone (Gainey and Julien) so it makes more sense.
yeah, I guess I used the wrong term..but people who know me as a poster should know I'm not like that...I'm not going to start **** for no reason.

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03-07-2009, 10:34 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
I think you understand that this makes absolutely no sense.

No coach can get a job in this league without speaking English.
And no coach can get a job in Montreal without speaking English and French. If somehow, because of this, we were the worst franchise in sports history you might have a point. But we're actually the most successful franchise in history, therefore singling out francophones as a problem seems more than a little petty to me. I mean, you would first have to identify this hiring procedure as a huge problem before taking this position. No? Why fabricate an issue when there is none?

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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post


Are you ****ing serious?

I was just suggesting that (in my opinion) we're in big trouble as a franchise if we HAVE to limit our choices to francophone or bilingual coaches..

I don't have anything against francophones..I don't speak french, but practically my whole family does on one side.
Why are we in big trouble? As I said, you would first have to establish the presence of BIG TROUBLE, before proposing a reason (inability to hire non-bilinguals) for why BIG TROUBLE exists.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 03-08-2009 at 12:52 PM.
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03-07-2009, 10:41 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
And no coach can get a job in Montreal without speaking English and French. If somehow, because of this, we were the worst franchise in sports history you might have a point. But we're actually the most successful franchise in history, therefore singling out francophones as a problem seems more than a little petty to me. I mean, you would first have to identify this hiring procedure as a huge problem before taking this position. No? Why fabricate an issue when there is none?
We've been comfortably one of the most mediocre sports franchises in the last 15 years. In that time we've hired 5 rookie coaches and 3 of whom have proved/are proving to be completely incompetent. As long as we're talking about the past here...

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03-07-2009, 10:43 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Or...just throwing this out there...maybe the OP means 'guy that can communicate in French'. I think he just misused the term 'francophone', which means someone who's primarily French. I'm pretty sure he means bilingual. Two of our last three coaches were not Francophone (Gainey and Julien) so it makes more sense.
That's the point I was making from my very first post. Bilingual yes, francophone no.

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03-07-2009, 10:47 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
That's the point I was making from my very first post. Bilingual yes, francophone no.
Julien is Francophone, from Ontario, but he is francophone first.

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03-07-2009, 10:49 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
Why are we in big trouble? As I said, you would first have to establish the presence of BIG TROUBLE, before proposing a reason (inability to hire non-bilinguals) for why BIG TROUBLE exists.
Look at some of the coaches out there..

Peter Laviolette, Ted Nolan, Tom Renney etc..

Do you think any of those guys would be hired by Montreal?

In my opinion, Carbo is not the right man for the job. If/when he gets fired..who are we going to hire? I'd much rather hire one of those guys instead of some rookie coach who is from Quebec..or who is bilingual.

All I'm trying to say is..why do we have to limit ourselves to someone who speaks french. Who cares if they can't speak french? You hire the best coach for your team..it's as simple as that.

Other then Bob Hartley..can you name me some french speaking or bilingual candidates to coach this team after Carbo? (who would be better than some of the other coaches mentioned in this thread)

Even though you choose to believe otherwise, this is not intended to bash francophones.

It's just not fair that we have to limit ourselves instead of just taking the best possible coach for the job. I don't care if they speak french or not..if they can only speak french and they'd be a great candidate for the job, then hire them! It just happens to be that the best candidates for the job don't speak french.

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03-07-2009, 10:51 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
We've been comfortably one of the most mediocre sports franchises in the last 15 years. In that time we've hired 5 rookie coaches and 3 of whom have proved/are proving to be completely incompetent. As long as we're talking about the past here...
We went through a rough time. So have many franchises. Is it because of a lack of strictly English speaking coaches? That's why we've been mediocre? And conversely, how do we explain the existence of other mediocre franchises of which there are many? Through the same means, by pointing to the language of their coaches?

There's a lot of criticism of francophones on this forum. Little jabs here and there. When you put up a thread title like this one, it just seems a little provocative in that context, no? Especially the way ALWAYS is emphasized, like it's a major grievance against habs fans. Anyway, carry on with your friendly discussion of how francophone coaches are a HUGE PROBLEM. No veiled criticism of francophones implied. Nope.

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03-07-2009, 10:55 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Look at some of the coaches out there..

Peter Laviolette, Ted Nolan, Tom Renney etc..

Do you think any of those guys would be hired by Montreal?

In my opinion, Carbo is not the right man for the job. If/when he gets fired..who are we going to hire? I'd much rather hire one of those guys instead of some rookie coach who is from Quebec..or who is bilingual.

All I'm trying to say is..why do we have to limit ourselves to someone who speaks french. Who cares if they can't speak french? You hire the best coach for your team..it's as simple as that.

Other then Bob Hartley..can you name me some french speaking or bilingual candidates to coach this team after Carbo? (who would be better than some of the other coaches mentioned in this thread)

Even though you choose to believe otherwise, this is not intended to bash francophones.

It's just not fair that we have to limit ourselves instead of just taking the best possible coach for the job. I don't care if they speak french or not..if they can only speak french and they'd be a great candidate for the job, then hire them! It just happens to be that the best candidates for the job don't speak french.
I don't understand why you keep this debate alive...

You know the reasons why some want a coach who speaks french and the reasons why the team keeps hiring them...

What do you want exactly from this thread? You want people to change their mind? It's not gonna happen, espacially if you're not even willing to change yours...

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03-07-2009, 11:04 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Look at some of the coaches out there..

Peter Laviolette, Ted Nolan, Tom Renney etc..

Do you think any of those guys would be hired by Montreal?.
I hope not. Are these guys considered top coaches now? I'd take Hartley any day.

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03-07-2009, 11:08 AM
  #69
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I hope not. Are these guys considered top coaches now? I'd take Hartley any day.
Maybe not Renney..

And it's debateable, but I'd probably take Laviolette or Nolan ahead of Hartley at this point. But Hartley would probably be a good choice as well.

Anyways, there's no point in replying back and forth since you're obviously not going to get the point of this thread.

I've already explained myself..and it looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter.

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03-07-2009, 11:10 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
It's part of league rules that players and coaches talk to the media and fans. The more attention a team receives, the more people take an interest in the team and get excited about the players. The more fans spend money on the team, the more the team has money to spend on players and build winning franchises. See the logic? A sports franchise doesn't exist in isolation, it exists as part of the fabric of a community, both at a local and global level. It makes no sense to imagine them completely cut off from everyone because their existence depends on fan interest, which is stoked by media coverage.
I'm not talking about the organization living in isolation though, I'm talking about priorities. If, hypothetically, the team had a choice between Mike Babcock or Michel Therrien (you don't have to use these coaches, you can use coach A and coach B if you want, where one is clearly better than the other), and they took Therrien because of his ability to speak French, then the team is placing a lesser priority in communication skills over a higher priority in developing a winning team.

This is where my problem is -- there is still a means for a non-French-speaking coach to communicate to the fans and media, but because he can't do it in French, he would get shunned. This should not be how the organization runs, since we vastly limit the pool from which we can get coaches and it's going to be incredibly hard to get good coaches with another 29 teams vying for the best.

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03-07-2009, 11:10 AM
  #71
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Nolan again... ? How come 29 other teams are not thinking of him ?

Renney would be an excellent assistant-coach in Montreal.

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03-07-2009, 11:12 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
We went through a rough time. So have many franchises. Is it because of a lack of strictly English speaking coaches? That's why we've been mediocre? And conversely, how do we explain the existence of other mediocre franchises of which there are many? Through the same means, by pointing to the language of their coaches?
Oh other teams suck so it's no problem that we suck too. Perfect.

Quote:
There's a lot of criticism of francophones on this forum. Little jabs here and there. When you put up a thread title like this one, it just seems a little provocative in that context, no? Especially the way ALWAYS is emphasized, like it's a major grievance against habs fans. Anyway, carry on with your friendly discussion of how francophone coaches are a HUGE PROBLEM. No veiled criticism of francophones implied. Nope.
Yup, you nailed it. That's what this debate is all about. It's because people don't like francophones.

It's not about hiring the BEST AVAILABLE COACH. Nope. It's not about wanting the most qualified people leading us to the promised land above all else. This whole debate is about criticizing francophones. They, and only they, are why we've been a mediocre embarrassment since '95. Thank you for summing everything up so eloquently.

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03-07-2009, 11:13 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
What is a sports franchise to you? Once you arrive at a definition, you'll better understand the importance of being inclusive to the fan base. Secondly, there are plenty of good, qualified french-speaking coaches that have been hugely successful. In the long run, I don't really think it would've mattered had the Habs considered English-speaking only coaches in the hiring process along the way. They've won 24 cups applying this philosophy. Maybe other clubs should hire only French-speaking coaches. They might win more cups.
It would be a big help for the coach to speak French. In Montreal that is a given. The same thing could be said for players too, but not to the same degree at all. However, you must admit that some media pick on those who do not.

So why does inclusion not work both ways? Why this lack of acceptance simply based on language difference? It would be nice for players to develop french skills but I'd rather they develop their hockey skills first.

Same with the coach. It would be great to have a great coach learn the local language. I'd rather he teach our team to win first. Somehow if we won the Cup the fans wouldn't care if he spoke Swahili. Seems more a matter of winning or losing than language in the end

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03-07-2009, 11:14 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by redmachine54 View Post
If, hypothetically, the team had a choice between Mike Babcock or Michel Therrien (you don't have to use these coaches, you can use coach A and coach B if you want, where one is clearly better than the other), and they took Therrien because of his ability to speak French, then the team is placing a lesser priority in communication skills over a higher priority in developing a winning team.

This is where my problem is -- there is still a means for a non-French-speaking coach to communicate to the fans and media, but because he can't do it in French, he would get shunned.
This is pretty much exactly what I was intending with the thread. I guess you're just better with words.

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03-07-2009, 11:19 AM
  #75
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English or French it doesn't matter. Whatever happens my solution will always be Pat Burns. The guy would be perfect for us right now. But we would have to trade all the softies and "K"s first.

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