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Old
03-06-2009, 09:59 PM
  #101
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^Exactly what i mean.

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03-06-2009, 10:26 PM
  #102
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I chuckled because you were the first post on the new page, so the arrows don't work.

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03-06-2009, 10:52 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Coffey77 View Post
One thing though I would critique is that he sometimes holds onto older players for too long. eg. Trading a 3rd round pick to get Doug Brown back after losing him on waivers. Chelios and Maltby back for 1 year too long IMO.
perhaps, but a lot of that is due not only to the on-ice success of the team as a whole, but the fan affection for said players.

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03-07-2009, 04:25 AM
  #104
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The Caps picked Green with the 1st they got in the Lang deal.

Fleischmann looks pretty good too. Probably not a superstar, but he has definite top 6 potential.
Fleischmann has miles to go before he's even in the stratosphere of Lang, who was a very productive Red Wing. I wouldn't say Flash is more relevant a player than Cleary, Filppula, Hudler or Samuelsson - guys who stole his spot on this club. No tears over him.

Has Kenny & co gone on the record saying they would've taken MikeG, btw?

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03-07-2009, 01:04 PM
  #105
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Fleischmann has miles to go before he's even in the stratosphere of Lang, who was a very productive Red Wing. I wouldn't say Flash is more relevant a player than Cleary, Filppula, Hudler or Samuelsson - guys who stole his spot on this club. No tears over him.

Has Kenny & co gone on the record saying they would've taken MikeG, btw?
Not only that, we have to remember Green was a forward, converted to defenseman. I'm not sure if that happened in the Caps' system, so he might not even have been a defense, if he had come here.

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03-07-2009, 04:52 PM
  #106
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Kyle Quincey: Surprised?

Did any of you guys expect the waived Quicey to score so many points this year? It's looking like the best move L.A has done in a long time.

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03-07-2009, 05:45 PM
  #107
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The Caps picked Green with the 1st they got in the Lang deal.

Fleischmann looks pretty good too. Probably not a superstar, but he has definite top 6 potential.
Fleishmann looks pretty good on the 1st line time with the caps.

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03-07-2009, 07:49 PM
  #108
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Did any of you guys expect the waived Quicey to score so many points this year? It's looking like the best move L.A has done in a long time.
Well, some move, he landed in their laps.

And yes, I'm real annoyed about it. Goal and assist today, 1st star, nice going Detroit.

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03-07-2009, 07:55 PM
  #109
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Well, some move, he landed in their laps.

And yes, I'm real annoyed about it. Goal and assist today, 1st star, nice going Detroit.
But we still got Meech

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03-07-2009, 07:59 PM
  #110
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Shows how dominant we are. Even our rejects are decent players.

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03-07-2009, 08:32 PM
  #111
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Shows how dominant we are. Even our rejects are decent players.
Quincey was never a reject.

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03-07-2009, 08:35 PM
  #112
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Quincey was never a reject.
Nah, he's just looked a bit funny.

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03-07-2009, 09:04 PM
  #113
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$6M/yr for 3 more years is going to sting.

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03-07-2009, 09:19 PM
  #114
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$6M/yr for 3 more years is going to sting.
Could be worse.

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03-07-2009, 09:51 PM
  #115
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That's not very comforting.

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03-07-2009, 10:41 PM
  #116
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Hopefully he can stay at a decent level long enough where we don't have to buy him out.

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03-07-2009, 11:37 PM
  #117
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Whichever side you're on with regard to Rafalski, how can anyone be happy about his $6 million salary? I like the guy; he obviously has his skills, skills that are needed in the Wings puck possession system, but that number is simply maddening. The only other '#2' defenseman in the league who makes more is Pronger, at $6.25 mil. Of course Pronger is a #1, whose salary isn't far apart from the Ducks' other #1. Lou ain't dumb; he only offered $4.4-4.5 mil to Rafalski and it's not like the Devils had a surplus of dmen ready and waiting to fill the void. Perhaps they took a slight hit last season but now? They're as much a favorite as anyone for the Cup.

Food for thought: what if Schneider had re-signed here? $5.625 mil for two years; he'd be UFA at the end of this season. Would the Wings have still won the Cup? Maybe, maybe not, but you knew in '07 (at least I did) they would eventually win with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Babcock at the helm. It was going to happen. Presumably then Schneider would be let go at the end of this year, Wings would be able to re-sign all their forwards, or go after Bouwmeester, or go after a better goalie.

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03-07-2009, 11:49 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by tmf2204 View Post
Whichever side you're on with regard to Rafalski, how can anyone be happy about his $6 million salary? I like the guy; he obviously has his skills, skills that are needed in the Wings puck possession system, but that number is simply maddening. The only other '#2' defenseman in the league who makes more is Pronger, at $6.25 mil. Of course Pronger is a #1, whose salary isn't far apart from the Ducks' other #1. Lou ain't dumb; he only offered $4.4-4.5 mil to Rafalski and it's not like the Devils had a surplus of dmen ready and waiting to fill the void. Perhaps they took a slight hit last season but now? They're as much a favorite as anyone for the Cup.

Food for thought: what if Schneider had re-signed here? $5.625 mil for two years; he'd be UFA at the end of this season. Would the Wings have still won the Cup? Maybe, maybe not, but you knew in '07 (at least I did) they would eventually win with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Babcock at the helm. It was going to happen. Presumably then Schneider would be let go at the end of this year, Wings would be able to re-sign all their forwards, or go after Bouwmeester, or go after a better goalie.
Very well said, agree.

Schneider was a good fit here who was no worse than Rafalski. He would've come cheaper and I'd say we wouldn't have lost much. 3 years left with a massive amount remaining, help us all.

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Old
03-08-2009, 01:23 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Zetsyuk View Post
Hopefully he can stay at a decent level long enough where we don't have to buy him out.
i'd rather he demand a trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmf2204 View Post
Whichever side you're on with regard to Rafalski, how can anyone be happy about his $6 million salary? I like the guy; he obviously has his skills, skills that are needed in the Wings puck possession system, but that number is simply maddening. The only other '#2' defenseman in the league who makes more is Pronger, at $6.25 mil. Of course Pronger is a #1, whose salary isn't far apart from the Ducks' other #1. Lou ain't dumb; he only offered $4.4-4.5 mil to Rafalski and it's not like the Devils had a surplus of dmen ready and waiting to fill the void. Perhaps they took a slight hit last season but now? They're as much a favorite as anyone for the Cup.

Food for thought: what if Schneider had re-signed here? $5.625 mil for two years; he'd be UFA at the end of this season. Would the Wings have still won the Cup? Maybe, maybe not, but you knew in '07 (at least I did) they would eventually win with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Babcock at the helm. It was going to happen. Presumably then Schneider would be let go at the end of this year, Wings would be able to re-sign all their forwards, or go after Bouwmeester, or go after a better goalie.
i hated the rafalski signing. DRW would have beaten anaheim if the d-men were better to protect the crease. (stuart was later signed)
but then KH signed a small, offensive d-man to a long and heavy contract.....

it wouldn't be as big a problem if he were being paid 4M.

but in hindsight, it was worth it, b/c winning is worth a bad contract.

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Old
03-08-2009, 01:43 AM
  #120
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Here's a look at the top paid defensemen (4M or more). Rafalski's contract doesn't look all that bad compared to alor of the names on this list.

NameTeamCap
Zdeno CharaBOS$7,500,000
Nicklas LidstromDET$7,450,000
Brian CampbellCHI$7,142,875
Scott NiedermayerANA$6,750,000
Dan BoyleSJ$6,666,667
Ed JovanovskiPHX$6,500,000
Dion PhaneufCGY$6,500,000
Wade ReddenNYR$6,500,000
Kimmo TimonenPHI$6,333,333
Chris ProngerANA$6,250,000
Brian RafalskiDET$6,000,000
Andrei MarkovMTL$5,750,000
Bryan McCabeFLA$5,750,000
Mathieu SchneiderMTL$5,625,000
Lubomir VisnovskyEDM$5,600,000
Roman HamrlikMTL$5,500,000
Sheldon SourayEDM$5,400,000
Sergei ZubovDAL$5,350,000
Mike GreenWSH$5,250,000
Rob BlakeSJ$5,000,000
Sergei GoncharPIT$5,000,000
Pavel KubinaTOR$5,000,000
Michal RozsivalNYR$5,000,000
Jay BouwmeesterFLA$4,875,000
Kim JohnssonMIN$4,850,000
Ron HainseyATL$4,500,000
Scott HannanCOL$4,500,000
Shea WeberNSH$4,500,000
Eric BrewerSTL$4,250,000
Tomas KaberleTOR$4,250,000
John-Michael LilesCOL$4,200,000
Mark StreitNYI$4,100,000
Robyn RegehrCGY$4,020,000
Adrian AucoinCGY$4,000,000
Tom GilbertEDM$4,000,000
Jay McKeeSTL$4,000,000
Andrej MezsarosTB$4,000,000
Joni PitkainenCAR$4,000,000
Ryan WhitneyANA$4,000,000
Dennis WidemanBOS$3,937,500
Derek MorrisNYR$3,916,667

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Old
03-08-2009, 01:51 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
Here's a look at the top paid defensemen (4M or more). Rafalski's contract doesn't look all that bad compared to alor of the names on this list.

NameTeamCap
Zdeno CharaBOS$7,500,000
Nicklas LidstromDET$7,450,000
Brian CampbellCHI$7,142,875
Scott NiedermayerANA$6,750,000
Dan BoyleSJ$6,666,667
Ed JovanovskiPHX$6,500,000
Dion PhaneufCGY$6,500,000
Wade ReddenNYR$6,500,000
Kimmo TimonenPHI$6,333,333
Chris ProngerANA$6,250,000
Brian RafalskiDET$6,000,000
Andrei MarkovMTL$5,750,000
Bryan McCabeFLA$5,750,000
Mathieu SchneiderMTL$5,625,000
Lubomir VisnovskyEDM$5,600,000
Roman HamrlikMTL$5,500,000
Sheldon SourayEDM$5,400,000
Sergei ZubovDAL$5,350,000
Mike GreenWSH$5,250,000
Rob BlakeSJ$5,000,000
Sergei GoncharPIT$5,000,000
Pavel KubinaTOR$5,000,000
Michal RozsivalNYR$5,000,000
Jay BouwmeesterFLA$4,875,000
Kim JohnssonMIN$4,850,000
Ron HainseyATL$4,500,000
Scott HannanCOL$4,500,000
Shea WeberNSH$4,500,000
Eric BrewerSTL$4,250,000
Tomas KaberleTOR$4,250,000
John-Michael LilesCOL$4,200,000
Mark StreitNYI$4,100,000
Robyn RegehrCGY$4,020,000
Adrian AucoinCGY$4,000,000
Tom GilbertEDM$4,000,000
Jay McKeeSTL$4,000,000
Andrej MezsarosTB$4,000,000
Joni PitkainenCAR$4,000,000
Ryan WhitneyANA$4,000,000
Dennis WidemanBOS$3,937,500
Derek MorrisNYR$3,916,667
Just makes Bouwmeester and Weber look like steals... for now.

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Old
03-08-2009, 03:01 AM
  #122
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Weber and Bouwmeester have never been unrestricted free agents. This summer we'll see how much JayBo gets in his first chance on the open market.

The players to compare Rafalski to are the guys who signed UFA contracts around that time period - Campbell, Schneider, Hainsey, Redden, Timonen, Boyle, Visnovsky, Rozsival.....


Last edited by FissionFire: 03-08-2009 at 03:08 AM.
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03-08-2009, 04:08 AM
  #123
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What the heck has happened to Joni Pitkanen? He's not having a bad season but I remember he was being touted as the next big thing, he was being hyped like mad.

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03-08-2009, 04:40 AM
  #124
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it wouldn't be as big a problem if he were being paid 4M.
At $4 mil? Devils would love him, Wings would love him, 28 other teams would love him. No problem whatsoever.

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The players to compare Rafalski to are the guys who signed UFA contracts around that time period - Campbell, Schneider, Hainsey, Redden, Timonen, Boyle, Visnovsky, Rozsival.....
Campbell's is ridiculous but Chicago has Keith signed for peanuts right now. They'll be in a pickle when Keith, Toews and Kane are all RFA's after the '09-10 season. Atlanta overpaid for Hainsey because they have to, they're Atlanta and they'd missed out on Campbell. Redden and Rozsival were signed by the Rangers... when's the last time they haven't screwed up a contract? (Maybe Lundqvist's.) Timonen's a #1; I'd rather have his contract than Rafalski's. Boyle's is high but he's better (skating, shot) and there's Vlasic at $3.1 mil.

Obviously winning's the end all be all, the Wings won, so I'm not suggesting Rafalski was a bad signing. It's just funny to me that between two GMs, the two who are considered the best in the league, one deemed his value at $4.5 mil, the other $6 mil. Sure Holland knew he had to overpay to pluck him off free agency, but a $1.5 mil difference? With a 5-year term and NTC, that's pretty significant.

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03-08-2009, 10:11 AM
  #125
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imo, it's a bad idea to have a top d-man who is weak defensively no matter his cost.
that's why coffey was traded so much, and why teams won right after they traded him. i wouldn't even want coffey on my team.

if i were GM and had lidstrom, i would be very unlikely to pay rafalski even 4M, unless i could trade him.

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