Last week, I predicted that Gainey will fire Carbo and step behind the bench. But I could not beleive it happen this fast. I also think Gainey will resign himself before the start of next season. He has failed in the following areas:
1) Select Carbo as a coach. Carbo is a denfensive specialist and not suitable for a fast offensive skating team like the Habs
All in all, Carbo had a pretty good run in Montreal; he did way better than his recent predecessors. So he got fired... like it was the first time in NHL history. Coaches come and go everywhere in professional sport, and it's ridiculous to demand from Gainey perfection in his lone coach selection when plenty of GM fire and hire new coach all the time, every season, without getting labeled as bad.
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2) Bad asset management. He has lost Souray, Streit for nothing. I have also have the weird feeling that he may also lose Komi for nothing.
Souray was needed because we were hunting for the playoff. Observe that seeing both of these players leave for free agency didn't surprise anyone - both were considered relatively expandable for their UFA price. Gainey was right for Souray, but he was wrong for Streit. And he couldn't trade Streit last season, when we were dominating the east and looking ahead for an surprising playoff run.
Historically, Gainey never had any problem in signing back important UFAs in the past. Kovalev, Markov. A lot of peoples have unofficially reported that Komi is probably already "signed" (so is Koivu), and are just waiting for the end of the season to announce it. I would be very surprised if Komisarek even hit the market.
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3) Incorrect assesment of the situation. A few weeks ago, he said that Carbo was his best acquistion. Look at what happen now. He did not make a move at the trade deadline and saying he trust his players. His players has not performed at this point.
Oh no. He said something in a press conference. And he said something good about his coach. How surprising. Like I said, coaches come and go. It is a known fact that changing coach in mid season give a boost to a team. It is imperative for Gainey to make the playoff - for reasons I don't need to explain - and seeing how close the race in the East is, I guess he had to take drastic measures.
In truth, Gainey as a GM is the best thing that happened to this franchise for a long, long time. I think a lot of younger posters here who don't really know his career and can't understand how much gravitas this guy pulls. The team doesn't always play as good as we would like, but everybody knows who's the boss. Gainey was the captain of the best NHL team in history, and is universality immensely respected in the hockey world.
I'm currently reading Ken Dryden "The Game" (in french, unfortunately), and when he comes to talking about Gainey, you get the sense of how the guy was special as an human being. In a market like Montreal, he would be extremely hard to replace.
Last edited by Goldthorpe: 03-09-2009 at 08:06 PM.
Paul Holmgren took his team (Philly) from dead last to the Eastern Conference finals in ONE season. All the while being also the GM for their farm team. His team is counting on big, young and talented players at almost every position, with a wealth of talent in the pipeline.
So you want Paul Holmgren as a GM? If not, what's your point?
I find it funny how some posters think being GM is like playing a video game. All we have to do is make a proposal that looks like it makes sense on paper and voila done deal.
Gainey's made good moves, great moves, bad move and bonehead moves. Find me a GM who hasn't. What separates BG from other GM's is his willingness to make the hard decisions and the professionalism with which he conducts himself. He puts the needs of the team first but isn't willing to rush to conclusions and rash actions just for the sake of doing something.
To criticize him for getting nothing in return for players such as Streit and Souray is revisionist history. Imagine for a second that we traded both players at the deadline the past 2 years. There would be cries for his head because he traded away a chance at the cup. No win situation for him. He made decisions on these players based on that seasons needs. If Gainey failed as a GM in those circumstances then every GM has failed at one time or another. He also is savvy enough to realize there will be UFA's available to sign because all the other bad GM's screwed up at their job and didn't trade away their assets and a shot at the cup for a few draft picks or unproven prospects.
As a GM it's his responsibility to give a coach the assets to succeed, but also preserve the organizations depth in all position so the club can succeed in the future. He has consistently done this. He also has made great signings of potential RFA's Need examples. We have some of the best deals in the league with AKost, Gorges, and to this point Komisarek. Not many of his contracts are bad, but again every GM has some deals they'd like back, they don't exactly have a crystal ball.
It takes 2 organizations (at least) to make a trade. It's impossible to know how many deals have gone sideways because the other team tried to get too much. All the speculation about LeCavalier was a circus and I think a part of what has gone wrong. None of it was his fault.
He hired Carbo and at the time it was a great signing, or we thought. Who knows what would have happened had the team stayed healthy or it wasn't the 100th year or whatever... the reality is that today Carbo cannot effectively coach this team. As GM it's his job to do something and the fact he has done so, professionally and respectfully makes me appreciate him even more as GM. He a Carbo are friends. Could you fire your friend? I don't think I could. I respect him even more today than yesterday.
If they miss the playoff or do poorly in the playoffs, I'm sure BG will assess his involvement with the organization. He's that type of guy. To suggest he's saving his job is an insult to a man who's always put the team ahead of himself.
Gainey saved is job. Carbonneau was not perfect, far from this, but Gainey is the real problem in the habs organization! If you look the transaction he made, maybe 1 out of 2 turn out to be good....that's not a good rating for a GM.
Plus he still make the same error he made with Streit next year. He keep saying he will not sign his player during the season...that will cost him a lot! We know he will resign Komisarek, but if he wait July 1st Komisarek will cost a lot more! If he sign him mid season, Komisarek's salary should've been more on target.
If he keeps goiin like this, Gainey is the next one to loose is job....he just save his a** for a couple of month
Gainey put an excellent team on the ice, it's up to the coach to get them firing on all cylinders, not ripping it apart with juvenile comments in the papers and putting 4th liners on the ice 5 on 3.
Agreed - Gainey should have job as long as HE wants it.
When he goes - people will realize what a great GM we had, and were lucky to have.
It's just like that guy you have as your handle. They both get no respect. I'd like see these people try and be either captain or GM of the Canadiens and see what it's really like.
Gainey shouldn't be fired, his record has been pretty good. Not perfect, but good. He now has the chance to prove that this team is good enough, just like's he been saying.
I've been reading some stuff related to George Gillett and how his Liverpool purchase didn't go so well. In the interests of cash flow, he needs the Canadiens in the playoffs. Everybody knows that's when you make serious profit in the NHL. I can't help but think that he's putting Gainey on the hotseat to really make the playoffs.
I really wonder why it is so difficult for some people to see what Gainey is trying to do. I have no doubt he could have done some moves to get this team to be a contender and maybe get to the Stanley Cup Finals and even to win The Cup. And right after that disappear a´la Canes or Tampa or Pittsburgh and destroying the future. What he is really trying to do is to turn this organisation to be a contender EVERY YEAR a´la Wings, Sharks, Devils. And that really doesn´t happen over night.
He´s not perfect. No one is. But IMHO he´s going to the right direction, slowly but surely. If only the fans and the media had the patience he has...
He has put himself on the firing line now so if the Habs don't make the playoffs, he will be blamed, not Carbo. That takes real leadership, the same leadership he showed in dealing with Kovy.
Those of you who want Gainey out though may get your wish as I could definitely see him submitting his resignation especially if they miss the playoffs. After all the crap from this season I would not blame him at all.
My sentiments exactly. Nothing but my deepest respect for Gainey.
So you want Paul Holmgren as a GM? If not, what's your point?
The only thing saving Holmgren is Clark drafted Richards and Carter, and that Kaberle used his NTC to quash the Carter and 1st for Kaberle deal...signibng Briere to that ridiculous contract now has them with holes in nets and on defense.
Gainey saved is job. Carbonneau was not perfect, far from this, but Gainey is the real problem in the habs organization! If you look the transaction he made, maybe 1 out of 2 turn out to be good....that's not a good rating for a GM.
Plus he still make the same error he made with Streit next year. He keep saying he will not sign his player during the season...that will cost him a lot! We know he will resign Komisarek, but if he wait July 1st Komisarek will cost a lot more! If he sign him mid season, Komisarek's salary should've been more on target.
If he keeps goiin like this, Gainey is the next one to loose is job....he just save his a** for a couple of month
Gainey is not the problem and anyone who thinks so needs to get their head out of their a$$!!!!
Gainey has done a splendid job as GM here. He has made a few mistakes along the way, but overall he has built a great team with smart drafting and wise free agent signings.
You can't blame him for the Samsonov signing, nobody predicted he would be that bad. Plus he got rid of him without costing the team a fortune. You can't blame him for the Laraque signing either. He addressed a need for the Habs by getting the best heavyweight fighter in the NHL, nobody knew he would suck so bad or be injured most of the season.
Making Carbo the head coach was a good decision too. It worked well for a while. Carbo's record proved that it worked.
Gainey saved is job. Carbonneau was not perfect, far from this, but Gainey is the real problem in the habs organization! If you look the transaction he made, maybe 1 out of 2 turn out to be good....that's not a good rating for a GM.
Plus he still make the same error he made with Streit next year. He keep saying he will not sign his player during the season...that will cost him a lot! We know he will resign Komisarek, but if he wait July 1st Komisarek will cost a lot more! If he sign him mid season, Komisarek's salary should've been more on target.
If he keeps goiin like this, Gainey is the next one to loose is job....he just save his a** for a couple of month
Using that logic though, one can say 15 of the GM's are total crap while the other 15 are amazing. In trades 90% of the time one team gets shanked while the other team makes off like bandits.
I'd say at least having 50% of your trades, moves, etc being good, is actually a very go percentage especially in MTL where it's hard to make good trades and good signings.
And btw, I really doubt he does re-sign Komisarek, don't know where you get the idea he would but he won't. If he wasn't going to give Streit or Souray 4-5+ years at 5.5+ million, he isn't going to do it for Komi who will have dumb teams offering him something in the 6-7.5 range (not kidding, a dumb team like New York probably will do it) In essence, he won't have a hope in hell of re-signing him and if he gives him more then Markov isn't it true Markov has a clause in his contract that states he must be the highest paid habs d-man? Wouldn't we have to renegotiate Markov's contract if we did this first? That is unless Komi signs for less then Markov, which I doubt he will if he's being offered 1-2 million more from another team long term.
I just can't see us signing him to be honest with you. I think our team will do a full rebuild this summer signing only a few of our current roster players.
Okay, I have a solution. All the Gainey bashers find Gainey's great moves, all the Gainey lovers find his worst. We then put that list together and it will officially become Gainey's resume. 'Cause clearly for the bashers to find good moves, it will have to best incredibly great, and for the lovers to find the bad, it will have to be really really bad which then become the only think you need when you judge a GM work.
'Cause everything in the middle is either not that important or something that every other GM does.
Why don't you quote Carbo's great record and why he is a great coach?
So do you agree with this move?
Wrong again.
Wow, just wow.
We weren't even talking about Carbo, we were talking about Gainey. Yet once again, you sideline the discussion because you know you lack arguments to stay on point.
Wrong again? Wrong of what? Most people agree that Carbo lost his job because he lost the lockeroom, and many agree that Carbo will someday find another job as coach and will be very good, just like Vigneault, Julien and Therrien. Also, keep ignoring the fact that he was a nominee for the Jack Adams in only his sophomore year in professional coaching. Who knows how he would've turned out if he had more professional coaching experience beforehand. Anyway, this was out of topic, but I wouldn't expect better from you.
Am I wrong like before the Philly and San Jose games when I said I had a good feeling about those two games, and your everso negative bias made you conclude things too hastly and said I was wrong?
Wrong again? You even haven't proven once that I was wrong. But you can keep trying. But don't hold such a grudge for too long. I know you are mad at being proven wrong by myself so many times, but this kinda of attitude is bad for your health. You should consult.
We weren't even talking about Carbo, we were talking about Gainey. Yet once again, you sideline the discussion because you know you lack arguments to stay on point.
Wrong again? Wrong of what? Most people agree that Carbo lost his job because he lost the lockeroom, and many agree that Carbo will someday find another job as coach and will be very good, just like Vigneault, Julien and Therrien. Also, keep ignoring the fact that he was a nominee for the Jack Adams in only his sophomore year in professional coaching. Who knows how he would've turned out if he had more professional coaching experience beforehand. Anyway, this was out of topic, but I wouldn't expect better from you.
Am I wrong like before the Philly and San Jose games when I said I had a good feeling about those two games, and your everso negative bias made you conclude things too hastly and said I was wrong?
Wrong again? You even haven't proven once that I was wrong. But you can keep trying. But don't hold such a grudge for too long. I know you are mad at being proven wrong by myself so many times, but this kinda of attitude is bad for your health. You should consult.
A week ago you were saying everyone is over-reacting about Carbo and spouting off about his great record over the past two years.
Now, he's gone. Good move by Gainey.
Like I've said before you agree with everything done by this organization - it never fails.
BTW, where were you after the Sabres and Atlanta games?
A week ago you were saying everyone is over-reacting about Carbo and spouting off about his great record over the past two years.
Yeah and I'm not the only one. HE did have a good record. Only the blind and those without a brain will not see that
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Now, he's gone. Good move by Gainey.
Yeah and I also predicted Lever would be promoted from Hamilton. That's also a good move. Firing Carbo was a good move because he lost the lockeroom. You only see it as a good move because you dislike him.
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Like I've said before you agree with everything done by this organization - it never fails.
Hmmm, just an hour ago I said that trading Ribiero for so less than what he was worth was a bad move. But keep living in your little delusional world.
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BTW, where were you after the Sabres and Atlanta games?
I was here after the Atlanta game, just check my post log through a search. Unlike you, I don't chose to not come here when it doesn't apply to my rhetoric. Only someone with a relatively low intellect who can't create good arguments will do that. That person will come around only when the situation shows that he MIGHT be right. That's why we didn't see much of you between december and late January.
Now keep yappin, you'll someday join your friend 3TB3.....
Yeah and I'm not the only one. HE did have a good record. Only the blind and those without a brain will not see that
Yeah and I also predicted Lever would be promoted from Hamilton. That's also a good move. Firing Carbo was a good move because he lost the lockeroom. You only see it as a good move because you dislike him.
Hmmm, just an hour ago I said that trading Ribiero for so less than what he was worth was a bad move. But keep living in your little delusional world.
I was here after the Atlanta game, just check my post log through a search. Unlike you, I don't chose to not come here when it doesn't apply to my rhetoric. Only someone with a relatively low intellect who can't create good arguments will do that. That person will come around only when the situation shows that he MIGHT be right. That's why we didn't see much of you between december and late January.
Now keep yappin, you'll someday join your friend 3TB3.....
You're delusional. You failed to look beyond the record. This team has been terrible for almost 2 months. Anyone who failed to see it, is a moron.
It wasn't "just a slump" like you guys were.
You predicted Lever would come up? Wow! I predict tomorrow will be Wednesday...
