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Line Changes: Avery up, Naslund down

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Old
03-11-2009, 05:58 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
although averys penalties were ill timed, hes showing enormous heart and passion. the penalties were bad but again, if its not sean avery, are they even called?
Yes, they were clearly penalties. The 1st was a new rule that maybe Avery didn't remember since he's been away from the game for so long, but it's something that should have been called. And the second one was pretty clear as well. At first I thought Avery was trying to rip the guys head off lol.

I don't like Avery, but I'm really not trying to kill the guy. Players make mistakes. I just think there's too much bias for and against certain players on this forum.

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Old
03-11-2009, 11:12 PM
  #52
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Hi ola I am a biggest follower on your opinions and respect as well enjoy your insight on every topic or prospects. I haven't posted on this website for 4 yrs or so personal issue since they changed over 4 yrs ago. can you please tell me how you came to the conclusion of how dubinsky is more of an issue on the top 6 forward then Naslund who earns $4 mil a year an ex captain with leadership qualities to a second yr (sophmore player) with the paycheck of $633,333 who isn't with his mentor (jagr) and let me mention it again SECOND yr player who plays every postion and protects every player on his team (not counting Orr or D-men since avery left the team until he returned) to Naslund. I have been carefully reading all your posts and honestly for the first time i have to say Wow!






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Eh what?

That wasn't exactly what I wrote fly.

Many shifts the only way for that line to create any offense have been to strip D's of the puck. Most of the time, they aren't in a position to strip the D of the puck. Näslund isn't exactly a speedster anymore. The results are that inorder to get involved at all fly, Näslund have to whack and hack some. I don't know where you got 90 pts from, Näslund is on pace to score like 25 goals and 50 pts.

I am not saying that its well advised, we saw the same tendancys from JJ last season. But I think its ridiculos to say that he is taking penaltys because he is "floating", its more frustration that comes form trying to score at a pace that he isn't able to do anymore.

And I also don't get the talk about that he should be held accountable because he is floating, you say that he can't do it anymore because he isn't a 90 pts player anymore. Well, if this was all he could bring in his prime when he was scoring 90 pts -- what exactly did anyone think he would bring when he is 36 y/o?

If I want more from this team I would look at someone like Brandon Dubinsky. He is outworked every night by Ryan Callahan. Ryan Callahan is more physicaly then him every single night basically. Brandon Dubinsky have been voted "Biggest pest" in the WHL twice. In the AHL, Brandon Dubinsky was always more feisty and physical then Ryan Callahan. This season in the NHL though, Dubinsky is playing like he is as talented as a young Mike Modano. Thats a player IMO that should be expected to work harder and be more feisty. Not a 36 y/o slow scoring winger who never in his career have been more physical then he is now. And who in his prime, had to have someone like Bert do the dirty work for him. Even in his prime, without someone like Bert I think its doubtful that Näslund would have scored 70 pts. He did it darn well in the right enivorment, but he have never been that mega talented player who could do it by himself.


Last edited by GRAVI: 03-11-2009 at 11:34 PM.
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Old
03-11-2009, 11:20 PM
  #53
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Also Don't want to knock your statement but no one in there right mind is selected an captain of the Team let alone A CANADIAN based VANCOVER NHL TEAM if you don't have the leadership qualities as well as some cahonas to carry out the role. I just don't see your point or your argument.




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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Eh what?

That wasn't exactly what I wrote fly.

Many shifts the only way for that line to create any offense have been to strip D's of the puck. Most of the time, they aren't in a position to strip the D of the puck. Näslund isn't exactly a speedster anymore. The results are that inorder to get involved at all fly, Näslund have to whack and hack some. I don't know where you got 90 pts from, Näslund is on pace to score like 25 goals and 50 pts.

I am not saying that its well advised, we saw the same tendancys from JJ last season. But I think its ridiculos to say that he is taking penaltys because he is "floating", its more frustration that comes form trying to score at a pace that he isn't able to do anymore.

And I also don't get the talk about that he should be held accountable because he is floating, you say that he can't do it anymore because he isn't a 90 pts player anymore. Well, if this was all he could bring in his prime when he was scoring 90 pts -- what exactly did anyone think he would bring when he is 36 y/o?

If I want more from this team I would look at someone like Brandon Dubinsky. He is outworked every night by Ryan Callahan. Ryan Callahan is more physicaly then him every single night basically. Brandon Dubinsky have been voted "Biggest pest" in the WHL twice. In the AHL, Brandon Dubinsky was always more feisty and physical then Ryan Callahan. This season in the NHL though, Dubinsky is playing like he is as talented as a young Mike Modano. Thats a player IMO that should be expected to work harder and be more feisty. Not a 36 y/o slow scoring winger who never in his career have been more physical then he is now. And who in his prime, had to have someone like Bert do the dirty work for him. Even in his prime, without someone like Bert I think its doubtful that Näslund would have scored 70 pts. He did it darn well in the right enivorment, but he have never been that mega talented player who could do it by himself.

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Old
03-11-2009, 11:38 PM
  #54
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What I find interesting is that Naslund-Gomez-Zherdev was referred to as the "second line"

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Old
03-12-2009, 12:37 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
What I find interesting is that Naslund-Gomez-Zherdev was referred to as the "second line"
That makes the most sense really. Drury has two very large wingers and they are all ex-centers which means they all have to be somewhat defensively responsible whereas Gomez has/had Zherdev and Naslund who arent exactly defensive masters. I would rather have the Drury line out there who can work the puck down low and create chances with their size while keeping the puck out of their own net and allow Gomez and co. to free-wheel and put up some points.

But hey, thats just my opinion on why it is like that. It could totally random.

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Old
03-12-2009, 02:58 AM
  #56
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Hi ola I am a biggest follower on your opinions and respect as well enjoy your insight on every topic or prospects. I haven't posted on this website for 4 yrs or so personal issue since they changed over 4 yrs ago. can you please tell me how you came to the conclusion of how dubinsky is more of an issue on the top 6 forward then Naslund who earns $4 mil a year an ex captain with leadership qualities to a second yr (sophmore player) with the paycheck of $633,333 who isn't with his mentor (jagr) and let me mention it again SECOND yr player who plays every postion and protects every player on his team (not counting Orr or D-men since avery left the team until he returned) to Naslund. I have been carefully reading all your posts and honestly for the first time i have to say Wow!
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Originally Posted by NYranger View Post
Also Don't want to knock your statement but no one in there right mind is selected an captain of the Team let alone A CANADIAN based VANCOVER NHL TEAM if you don't have the leadership qualities as well as some cahonas to carry out the role. I just don't see your point or your argument.[/B]
Its because he have the cahonas to carry out that role, but isn't that irks me. I've seen Dubinsky in the WHL and the AHL before he made it to the NHL; in the WHL he was twice voted the "biggest pest" in the league (or was it "most annoying player to play against", or something like it). He kept that up to a certain amount in the AHL. Not on a regular basis like in the WHL, but from time to time he really stirred things up. Was a punishing hitter, targeted D's not in position to defend themselfs. Threw elbows when the reff wasn't watching.

Brandon Dubinsky in the AHL was always more physical then Ryan Callahan for example. The fact that Callahan now in every game out works Dubinsky speaks allot. Brandon Dubinsky have allot more potential then Callahan -- but that doesn't mean that he can abandon that part of the game. Now he is alibi hitting some, finnishing the checks every else is finnishing, but not much more. He have 4 goals in the last 41 games. If he got his head straight, I am sure that would have been 12 instead at the very least.

What he needs to do is concentrate 100% on physical and defensive aspects. If he did that, his offense would come natrually. Now he is only looking for offense all the time. I think he have all the classic soapmore slump syndromes.

So to me Dubinsky is a issue that can be solved, while Näslunds shortcommings are more a fact.

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Old
03-12-2009, 06:35 AM
  #57
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I will never understand why all players are judged by how physical they play. Näslund has never played a very physical game, more a positional game. He have if something improved his physical game the last years, still he is called a floater. Amazing that a floater leads this team with goals, what does that tell about the rest?

Maybe I've learned to accept his style after seeing him this many years, but mind you I'm not an hockey expert.

He might need this line change though, not because he is a "floater", but I don't think he gets the right role for his style with Gomez. To be honest I'd rather see him with Antropov so see what can happen.

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03-12-2009, 06:52 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiefer View Post
I will never understand why all players are judged by how physical they play. Näslund has never played a very physical game, more a positional game. He have if something improved his physical game the last years, still he is called a floater. Amazing that a floater leads this team with goals, what does that tell about the rest?

Maybe I've learned to accept his style after seeing him this many years, but mind you I'm not an hockey expert.

He might need this line change though, not because he is a "floater", but I don't think he gets the right role for his style with Gomez. To be honest I'd rather see him with Antropov so see what can happen.
I agree antropov seems like a better fit.
Also , so does this mean avery is going to be getting huge 1st line minutes now? hopefully he dosen't take on belak after that Brashear TKO

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Old
03-12-2009, 09:25 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Threw elbows when the reff wasn't watching.
Are you really saying that Dubinsky should play dirty? Honestly?

I don't know what games you are watching if you think Dubinsky doesn't play a physical game.

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Old
03-12-2009, 09:53 AM
  #60
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if Gomez is truly this team's second line centerman, then this team is in trouble.

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03-12-2009, 12:47 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by otto1219 View Post
i agree, avery hurt the team against carolina and almost KILLED us against boston with that last minute penalty. If boston scores there, people are having different discussions today.
I was absolutely screaming at my TV when he pulled that crap. He's gotta realize that he has no leeway out there, if he looks at a guy wrong he's gonna be called for it. I expected to log on to HF and see everyone calling out Avery, but the hate was directed at the ref. Are you kidding me? That call is made 10 times out of 10, and 11 if it's Avery.

If Redden had made that play, HF would have crashed due to "OMG REDDEN SUX" posts.

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03-12-2009, 01:12 PM
  #62
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I agree with you Ola that aside from a few high notes Dubinsky has been pretty disappointing this year. I think he's trying way too hard to impress out there and the end result is he's making one play too many and over complicating his game. He needs to stick to the basics more.

I think he will be a good player, so I'm not too worried. Look at Zajac last year... he was awful. This year he fixed a few things and now he has 50 or whatever points in 60+ games. If Dubinsky works to improve on his strengths and simplifies his game during the offseason he could have a similar type season as Zajac this season. I think Tortorella knows a thing or two about getting the best out of his players, so I have high hopes, especially since Dubinsky seems like a really impressionable kid.

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03-12-2009, 01:18 PM
  #63
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Dubi's only been a disappointment if you believe that Jagr had zero to do with his success last season and you were looking for him to improve upon that. At the beginning of the season I had him pegged at 35-40 points (although admittedly I thought he'd be in more of a third line role, where he belongs). I personally believe that today he's a third liner, an above average one at that, but Renney, and now Torts, obviously either feel he's more than that, or they're trying to make him more than that. He belongs on the third line, centering Korps, and, say, Naslund, if he's the new third liner.

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03-12-2009, 01:22 PM
  #64
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I agree with you Ola that aside from a few high notes Dubinsky has been pretty disappointing this year.
Yeah, I really thought he was gonna bust out this year. Especially after having the sick pre-season. Yeah, I know it was pre-season, but he just looked like he had confidence, scoring touch, etc... then after a few weeks of the season, he just lost it.

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03-12-2009, 01:27 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Dubi's only been a disappointment if you believe that Jagr had zero to do with his success last season and you were looking for him to improve upon that. At the beginning of the season I had him pegged at 35-40 points (although admittedly I thought he'd be in more of a third line role, where he belongs). I personally believe that today he's a third liner, an above average one at that, but Renney, and now Torts, obviously either feel he's more than that, or they're trying to make him more than that. He belongs on the third line, centering Korps, and, say, Naslund, if he's the new third liner.
It would naive to claim that Jagr had no impact on him, but I still think he's been a little bit too erratic this season. He has 4 goals in his last 50+ games while getting good ice time. That's pretty much equivalent to 4th line production

Maybe I'm just expecting too much because of that insanely hot start that he had.

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03-12-2009, 03:20 PM
  #66
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I do hear you, and for the players he plays with and the ice time he gets, he should be producing more, but I still just think it's a matter of him not being used properly. Further, he is 22 (I think), so that may have something to do with it.

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03-12-2009, 03:25 PM
  #67
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How has Avery been for you guys since he came back? Was it worth it?


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03-12-2009, 03:32 PM
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How has Avery been for you guys since he came back? Was it worth it?


Sal
no, he wore these plaid shorts to practice one day. total cancer.

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Old
03-12-2009, 03:37 PM
  #69
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no, he wore these plaid shorts to practice one day. total cancer.
I meant in the aspect of providing a spark for your team.

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03-12-2009, 03:44 PM
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he's been fine. For $2MM per season for the next three years, it should be worth the risk. His shot's a bit off, but that should come around and he has been a spark at times. He's just going to have to play a little bit smarter (although I'm not sure he's capable of that).

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03-12-2009, 03:45 PM
  #71
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I meant in the aspect of providing a spark for your team.
He's been hustling his ass off, playing a generally good game, but is taking a lot of penalties. He has not talked to the media, which is good, and has been yapping at the opposing bench like old times.

If he could somehow manage to take less penalties, I'd give him an A+.

But he can't, and has not appeared on the score sheet too much, so I give him a solid B.

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03-12-2009, 03:53 PM
  #72
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He's been hustling his ass off, playing a generally good game, but is taking a lot of penalties. He has not talked to the media, which is good, and has been yapping at the opposing bench like old times.

If he could somehow manage to take less penalties, I'd give him an A+.

But he can't, and has not appeared on the score sheet too much, so I give him a solid B.
It is good he is playing well. And the yapping is good also, so long as he keeps it in line. I personally think Avery is the spark your team has been missing all year.

And the previous poster is also right for about 2 million a season he is worth the risk.

Not many Islander fans will agree with me here but, if the Isles needed a spark Avery is one of the guys on my call list.

Sal

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Old
03-12-2009, 04:17 PM
  #73
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Ok, not bad. Little wake up call for Naslund to give a damn on the ice instead of floating around and rewarding Avery with some more ice time since he's played his ass off every shift since coming back.
I see it as more logical that Torts is trying to spread the offense around.

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Old
03-12-2009, 05:17 PM
  #74
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Wow...I thought this meant Naslund was SENT down to the minors. I got very excited.
yeah lets send the guy who's 2nd in scoring on our team down to the minors, great idea

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03-12-2009, 05:20 PM
  #75
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the move is necessary, the Naslund-Gomez-Zherdev line was cooling off. Avery is getting better each game as far as game shape IMO, and maybe he'll give the line a jolt of energy. Avery-Gomez-Shanahan was a great line his first time around

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