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Upshall-Carcillo Discussion; UPDATE (post #862) McLaren trade is nullified

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:53 PM
  #951
sa cyred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
I never said young is better or anything like that. If you read what I wrote you would see that my point was that to say Upshall is scores more points, gets more icetime and all that is mainly because Carcillo is just in his 2nd season in the NHL. Is it shocking to see that upshall who had played 214 NHL games scored a couple more goals(playing with better teammates) and plays a minute more a night than Carcillo who has played just 131 NHL games? Its not like one has played 500 and the other 400, Carcillo just broke into the league and is still making a name for himself while Upshall is established and been around and already on his 3rd team. It has nothing to do with "younger is better" but experience def has a lot to do with why it seems that Upshall is a better player, when I really dont think thats the truth. I think Upshall's skill is very limited and I think Carcillo has more potential and at worst will turn out to be as good as Upshall.

Also the people that say Upshall loved being a Flyer and that should be something you wouldnt want to get rid of. Well Carcillo grew up a flyers fan and really knows what its like to be a Flyer even before he gets here if you dont think he gets it and is a true Flyer then you dont know what Flyers hockey is and has been all about. The guy is the classic Flyers type player.
See.. I dont see it like that at all. I personally would rather roll with a more experience player in playoffs, then a "rookie" in his second full season. After watching him the past 2 games, I just see him as another Ben Eager, with a slighter more offensive side. You also got to know that the "classic" Flyers arent today's Flyers. The league has changed. You wont win the Cup with a team of grinders and enforcers. Personally, I really dont know why we need 3 enforcers. Also I have very happy with for Upshall. I think him playing on the top two lines on Phoenix will benefit him greatly. As shown so far, him playing on the top two lines in Phoenix has given him 2 goals in 3 games, last game him playing 21 mins. I think its too early to write Upshall's potential off... considering they are only alittle over a year apart age wise. I still think Upshall's experience has given him the upper hand.

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Old
03-09-2009, 07:08 PM
  #952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
See.. I dont see it like that at all. I personally would rather roll with a more experience player in playoffs, then a "rookie" in his second full season. After watching him the past 2 games, I just see him as another Ben Eager, with a slighter more offensive side. You also got to know that the "classic" Flyers arent today's Flyers. The league has changed. You wont win the Cup with a team of grinders and enforcers. Personally, I really dont know why we need 3 enforcers. Also I have very happy with for Upshall. I think him playing on the top two lines on Phoenix will benefit him greatly. As shown so far, him playing on the top two lines in Phoenix has given him 2 goals in 3 games, last game him playing 21 mins. I think its too early to write Upshall's potential off... considering they are only alittle over a year apart age wise. I still think Upshall's experience has given him the upper hand.
Riley Cote is our only enforcer. Asham and Carcillo are both grinders. They are not here to play the enforcer role. They just happen to be very good fighters and will stick up for their teammates if needed.. Cote will be in the pressbox come playoff time. Every team has grinders. What team do you know that has 4 lines of superstars? No one.

The Red Wings have won cups in the past decade with their famous grind line. Come playoff time every team needs some grinders. Upshall was never going to reach his full potential here playing a limited role. I am happy that he is playing on a team that will give him 21:00 mins a game. He wasn't going to do that here because there are players that are ahead of him on our roster. The last 10 Stanley cup Champions had some good grinders on their roster. Hell probably more than that. Maltby, Moen, Draper, Marchant, and Shawn Thornton. Just to name a few.

The only grinders on our team are Powe, Asham, Carcillo. I would also add Knuble and Hartnell to the list because they can play a grind game.

I just think its absolutely ludicrous to think a team can't win with grinders to fill out the bottom lines. Also i would like to point out its not like our starting roster is full of them


Last edited by Alchemy: 03-09-2009 at 07:14 PM.
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Old
03-09-2009, 07:14 PM
  #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
See.. I dont see it like that at all. I personally would rather roll with a more experience player in playoffs, then a "rookie" in his second full season. After watching him the past 2 games, I just see him as another Ben Eager, with a slighter more offensive side. You also got to know that the "classic" Flyers arent today's Flyers. The league has changed. You wont win the Cup with a team of grinders and enforcers. Personally, I really dont know why we need 3 enforcers. Also I have very happy with for Upshall. I think him playing on the top two lines on Phoenix will benefit him greatly. As shown so far, him playing on the top two lines in Phoenix has given him 2 goals in 3 games, last game him playing 21 mins. I think its too early to write Upshall's potential off... considering they are only alittle over a year apart age wise. I still think Upshall's experience has given him the upper hand.
I agree that it would be better going into the playoffs with a more experienced player and I wasnt saying a younger player would be better for that. My point about the experience thing was that people shouldnt expect Carcills's productions to be as high as Upshall's just yet.

You wont win with a team full of grinders and enforcers btu at the same time we have been saying all year that we need a more legit 3rd line, a line that just goes out and works hard, bangs bodies and chips in scoring some too and we finally have that. We have 8 players that can play top 6 minutes so its not like we have a team full of grinders and enforcers.

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Old
03-09-2009, 07:31 PM
  #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
See.. I dont see it like that at all. I personally would rather roll with a more experience player in playoffs, then a "rookie" in his second full season. After watching him the past 2 games, I just see him as another Ben Eager, with a slighter more offensive side. You also got to know that the "classic" Flyers arent today's Flyers. The league has changed. You wont win the Cup with a team of grinders and enforcers. Personally, I really dont know why we need 3 enforcers. Also I have very happy with for Upshall. I think him playing on the top two lines on Phoenix will benefit him greatly. As shown so far, him playing on the top two lines in Phoenix has given him 2 goals in 3 games, last game him playing 21 mins. I think its too early to write Upshall's potential off... considering they are only alittle over a year apart age wise. I still think Upshall's experience has given him the upper hand.
I think there are a lot of misconceptions about the "Broad Street Bullies" who won the cups. There were grinders, a couple of enforces too but that was also a highly skilled team. Clarke, Barber, Leach, MacLeish, Bladen were far from grinders. Even the grinders contributed. Clement was fast and could score. Dorny, Kindrachuck, Lonsberry, Saleski were maybe what would be called grinders but were scoring threats as well. Those teams were tough as nails but there was much more to them than pounding other teams into submission. Anyone who believes that didn't see them play and is falling for the press and hype without knowing the facts.

Cote is an enforcer, plain and simple. Other than him, I think there is far too much emphasis on attaching a tag to players, pigeonholing them into one specific role. Asham and Carcillo are out there taking real shifts, with much more responsibility on them than picking fights. Both are players playing their game. I think both can be components of a cup winning team.

I still love Upshall and will follow him to his last game. In the end though, I think if anyone is looking at this group of forwards and is worried about the roles they play they're deflecting blame from our real problems. This group of forwards absolutely can win a cup or three.

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Old
03-10-2009, 11:55 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
I'm with you. Carcillo's done a great job replacing Upshall already, and I hope it continues. In all honesty I didn't know who Carcillo was, now that I've seen him play, I like the trade.
I thought he played a good game against the Flyers with Phoenix, maybe that's when the Flyers FO took notice as well.

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Old
03-11-2009, 09:50 PM
  #956
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Upshall article...

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyo...otes03112.html

Quote:
It's nothing personal, just business. Those are words no professional athlete likes to have rattling around his brain.

For Scottie Upshall, playing well for a Philadelphia Flyers team that likely will be in the playoffs, the news that he had been sent to the Coyotes at the NHL trade deadline came as a bit of a jolt.

It did not take him long to realize, however, he could be in a situation that could benefit him greatly in the long run.

"It was definitely mixed emotions at first," said Upshall, a forward who went through a similar experience when he was dealt by the Nashville Predators, who had made him their first pick (sixth overall) in 2002 and traded him to the Flyers three seasons ago.

Upshall, acquired along with a second-round draft choice in 2011 for Daniel Carcillo,said the disappointment came because he would have to leave friends and a team that he had helped shape into a contender.

"The (salary) cap makes it tough on everyone," he said. "I definitely sat back and said this is a good move for myself and my career, a great opportunity to go to Phoenix and help out a team that had struggled in the past couple weeks.



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Old
03-11-2009, 11:25 PM
  #957
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heres a question ive been mulling around in my head would you make upshall an ofer sheet in the summer?

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Old
03-12-2009, 12:52 AM
  #958
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If Cap hit is pro-rated daily then how does philly save $331k from the carcillo deal??

by my calculation they should only be saving $81k

upshall is $1.225m
carcillo is $894k

annual savings of $331k, prorated for games remaining in the season should be about $80k

then why are publications stating the flyers saved $331K with this trade ex.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...t_Bullies.html

http://www3.allaroundphilly.com/blog...onys/blog.html

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Old
03-12-2009, 02:33 AM
  #959
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Originally Posted by The Dream Team View Post
If Cap hit is pro-rated daily then how does philly save $331k from the carcillo deal??

by my calculation they should only be saving $81k

upshall is $1.225m
carcillo is $894k

annual savings of $331k, prorated for games remaining in the season should be about $80k

then why are publications stating the flyers saved $331K with this trade ex.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...t_Bullies.html

http://www3.allaroundphilly.com/blog...onys/blog.html
Its basically the same. The $331k are the full season and the $81k are for the remainder of the season. Every player they callup now also doesn't cost his full caphit, just the pro-rated part. The newspapers just work with the fullseason caphits instead of the daily caphits.

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Old
03-12-2009, 10:59 PM
  #960
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I'm still not really feeling this trade. I guess only time will really tell.

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Old
03-12-2009, 11:52 PM
  #961
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I'm still not really feeling this trade. I guess only time will really tell.
co-sign. Flyers do not appear to have "gotten better," even if it has only been a few games. Guy will spend so much time in the box, probably just as little time producing. What an ass trade. What did Holmgren want?

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Old
03-13-2009, 01:17 AM
  #962
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co-sign. Flyers do not appear to have "gotten better," even if it has only been a few games. Guy will spend so much time in the box, probably just as little time producing. What an ass trade. What did Holmgren want?
Giroux

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Old
03-13-2009, 01:35 AM
  #963
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co-sign. Flyers do not appear to have "gotten better," even if it has only been a few games. Guy will spend so much time in the box, probably just as little time producing. What an ass trade. What did Holmgren want?
People like you are ridiculous. He's played four games for us, relax.

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Old
03-13-2009, 01:42 AM
  #964
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People like you are ridiculous. He's played four games for us, relax.
And I believe only one penalty he's taken so far has led to a PK. I could be wrong (shudder the thought!!), but I believe he took a penalty in the Buffalo game where he actually didn't take an opposing player with him to the box.

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Old
03-13-2009, 02:02 AM
  #965
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People like you are ridiculous. He's played four games for us, relax.
Pens fan, no malice intended.
Upshall is a better player than Carcillo. He is, he was and he will be. I really cannot comprehend this move except for that one thing that is Carcillo being signed next season at a lower hit than what Upshall will be getting on his new deal. If Upshall get a notable raise, then in the greater scheme of things this might indeed be good for you. Except for the second, which was you getting ripped off.

When Carcillo becomes a disciplined, scoring pest... I will be right here saying I WAS WROOOONG, but I don't see it.

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03-13-2009, 06:41 AM
  #966
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Nice move Homer we have porous defense and weak goalies.. the move would be to shore up the backend not another Grinder who spends to much time in Box... this was stupid and when this team is One and done in playoffs we will talk.

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Old
03-13-2009, 10:09 AM
  #967
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Giroux
People keep ignoring this; the small bit of salary we did shed lets us keep our call-ups where they are. Giroux needs to stay up with the Flyers.

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03-13-2009, 10:14 AM
  #968
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And I believe only one penalty he's taken so far has led to a PK. I could be wrong (shudder the thought!!), but I believe he took a penalty in the Buffalo game where he actually didn't take an opposing player with him to the box.
I don't know 100%, but I don't think he's put the team a man down as of yet. The play you're thinking, I believe the Buffalo Sabre player was called for the dive/unsportmanlike penalty. He later recieved a 10 minute misconduct, on the play where Asham and Kaleta danced.

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People keep ignoring this; the small bit of salary we did shed lets us keep our call-ups where they are. Giroux needs to stay up with the Flyers.
Amen!

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Old
03-13-2009, 11:28 AM
  #969
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Carcillo has been what they needed. I'm glad to see Upshall is doing well in PHX and getting first line minutes. But they can keep Giroux up, as previously mentioned, and Hartnell is on his longest PIMless streak of the season (three games). Maybe Hartnell won't feel the need to be the biggest goon on the team anymore.

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Old
03-13-2009, 12:35 PM
  #970
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
heres a question ive been mulling around in my head would you make upshall an ofer sheet in the summer?
Upshall is arbitration eligible. It wont get that far.

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Old
03-13-2009, 12:42 PM
  #971
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Upshall is arbitration eligible. It wont get that far.
Not to mention that the Flyers don't have a 2nd round pick. Even if they did, they wouldn't be offering Scottie an offer sheet...not a chance.

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Old
03-13-2009, 03:48 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
heres a question ive been mulling around in my head would you make upshall an ofer sheet in the summer?
they wouldnt make an offer sheet. theyd have to trade, kinda like the umberger trade. Theres no way they give up a first, but maybe theres something more to the second round pick. A second round pick is overpayment for a salary break.

Plus, theres a lot of teams that have cap cushion that would have given more for Upshall. I like Carcillo, but there was no need to trade Upshall for 310k. They could have saved money by trading Alberts, whos a UFA. I don't know why people havent brought this up. If the Flyers dumped Alberts and kept Vaananen they would be in the same boat as they are now. Alberts is going to want a pay increase and will probably walk after the year anyway.

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Old
03-13-2009, 04:06 PM
  #973
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i still don't get why flyers gave up a second here. Upshall is a better player everyday of the week and twice on sunday than carcillo, you guys got fleeced.

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Old
03-13-2009, 04:07 PM
  #974
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i still don't get why flyers gave up a second here. Upshall is a better player everyday of the week and twice on sunday than carcillo, you guys got fleeced.
The deal had everything to do with the salary cap. Now that you know, you may go back to the Rangers board, thanks.

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Old
03-13-2009, 04:49 PM
  #975
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i still don't get why flyers gave up a second here. Upshall is a better player everyday of the week and twice on sunday than carcillo, you guys got fleeced.
I like Carcillo. Sue me.

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