HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

3/12 New York Rangers @ Nashville Predators 8:00 PM MSG

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-13-2009, 01:31 AM
  #826
jrd303
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 495
vCash: 500
I always think that when a style of play results in more penalties it's usually because a team takes more penalties when they play that style. I don't think it's possible for the Rangers to take less penalties under Torts because they're using tactics that lead to more penalties. Aggressive play is always closer to the edge. It creates more scoring opportunities but the tradeoff is trying to create turnovers ends up creating more penalties as well.

Not speaking for the rest of the team but I think the refs are naturally going to clamp down on Avery. He just has a personality that pushes the envelope and they're going to try to rein him in before he has a chance to run wild. Can't say I blame them either. He's the type of guy you actually need to do that to to keep control of the game as a ref. I don't think it's fair of us as fans to like his game but complain when refs call it tight, it's part of that style of play.

I always look at bad penalties like bad ice. It's just something that happens. Sometimes it's good for you sometimes it's bad.

jrd303 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 01:52 AM
  #827
t3hg00se
Registered User
 
t3hg00se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,394
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to t3hg00se
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
You and I have completely different definitions for the word dominant. There was nothing even close to dominant about his performance. This is like you calling Redden dominant, or my favorite, "a force."

Watch the game again, and notice how when that line was on the ice, and something good happened, virtually every time, it was because of something that Callahan or Avery did.
Sting, Gomez played a strong puck possession game tonight, made some quality scoring chances, was skating phenomenally out there, showed off some great stick handling, wasn't lazy, and had a 3 point game contributing with 5 different players. I'm not saying Gomez won us the game tonight, but if he was benched instead of Zherdev the games turnout would have been completely different.

t3hg00se is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 03:02 AM
  #828
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Oh please... this blind Zherdev love is incredible.
FIXED.

seriously. If Zherdev can't respond well to a benching, if he can't come back next game with a fire under his ass playing like hell on skates, if he can't be professional about his job, if he doesn't want to resign with us over once ****ing benching, **** him! I don't want such a fragile player on our team. I don't want a player that can't be coached. I don't want the vastly less talented Russian clone of Sindy Crysby. Sather just better make the QO and get fair value for him via trade. If Z goes free for nothing, then I might start sharing your degree of anger. But I will be pissed at Sather rather than Torts. Torts is doing something I haven't seen since Keenan, benching a star player. About friggin' time! This could be the night Z becomes a man, the night Z goes on to be the next Pavel Datsyuk... or if he folds under those nasty wasty words, the next Sergei Berezin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Naslund played 9 minutes...
^and this. Didn't really get benched but I don't think those are the type of minutes Naslund is accustomed to so it's not quite the double standard. Strong message to our top scorer and our top goal scorer (not counting Antro). Let's just hope they get the message.

From the Lightning board

Quote:
He benched everybody except Richards. He loved Richards so he was exempt but he benched Lecavalier and St.Louis several times.
They sure were alienated. Shucks, I guess he sure ruined that Lecavlier and St. Louis fellas. Heck, I never even heard of them. Are they any good?



edit: If Gomez keeps up his current pace (about 1.5 points per game), he'll end up with 69 points. Previous season highs were 84 (EGG line season), 70, 70, and 70. He'd also end up with his second highest total goals scored in a season mark.


Last edited by n8: 03-13-2009 at 03:10 AM.
n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 04:00 AM
  #829
EvilCorporateLawyer
Very slippery slope
 
EvilCorporateLawyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Country Roads
Country: United States
Posts: 75,136
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to EvilCorporateLawyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
You and I have completely different definitions for the word dominant. There was nothing even close to dominant about his performance. This is like you calling Redden dominant, or my favorite, "a force."

Watch the game again, and notice how when that line was on the ice, and something good happened, virtually every time, it was because of something that Callahan or Avery did.
I'm shocked you can possibly say that virtually everything done today on the Gomez line was by Avery and Cally.

Shocked.

Do you even watch hockey?

Gomez was fantastic tonight. He looked like a #1 center (and has since Torts took over).

And please. When Redden is on, he IS a force. He had yet another solid game today and was inches away from scoring another goal. He's got a real, real good low, hard shot that is almost always |--| this close from either going in on it's own or being tipped in.

Both of them looked very good tonight.

Give them credit when they deserve it. It's a shame that you can't look past their paychecks and constantly rag on them or short them credit for no real reason.

__________________
"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB
"Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
"Used to be only Twinkies and cockroaches could survive a nuke. I'd add Habs to that. I'm convinced the CH stands for Club du Hypocrisy." - Gee Wally
EvilCorporateLawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 04:08 AM
  #830
FromTheSide
Registered User
 
FromTheSide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 23,801
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FromTheSide Send a message via MSN to FromTheSide
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I'm shocked you can possibly say that virtually everything done today on the Gomez line was by Avery and Cally.

Shocked.

Do you even watch hockey?

Gomez was fantastic tonight. He looked like a #1 center (and has since Torts took over).

And please. When Redden is on, he IS a force. He had yet another solid game today and was inches away from scoring another goal. He's got a real, real good low, hard shot that is almost always |--| this close from either going in on it's own or being tipped in.

Both of them looked very good tonight.

Give them credit when they deserve it. It's a shame that you can't look past their paychecks and constantly rag on them or short them credit for no real reason.
Just like the username,stingee ,its never enough.

FromTheSide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 04:43 AM
  #831
Hemlawk86
Registered User
 
Hemlawk86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Jersey Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 672
vCash: 500
Avery was impressive tonight. Staal and Girardi rocked too.

Hemlawk86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 07:09 AM
  #832
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,890
vCash: 500
The main complaint against Renney was he did not hold players accountable.Tortorella benches Zherdev who looked to be on the verge of having one of his invisible games and people still complain because Zherdev is their favorite player.Are we back in the 8th grade?

Torts made Vinny a better player by challenging him to be better.

Sather brought in Torts to kick some ass.He is doing it.Good for him.


Last edited by RangerBoy: 03-13-2009 at 07:20 AM.
RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 07:13 AM
  #833
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,033
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
I meant "snowball" in terms of Zherdev's confidence and Torts continuously singling him out to the media like he did with a lot of his Tampa players.

The last thing we want is Zherdev losing interest in playing for this team when he clearly has the potential to be a star. I understand Torts has his methods, and we shouldn't treat Zherdev any different from the rest of the team. But in all honesty I just want this to get resolved already.
He didn't single Zherdev out to the media though. he specifically said he wanted to keep it in the locker room

Quote:
4) Naslund -- you know, every time I bash this guy he bounces back and scores a goal for us. he had a really bad game tonight and keeps making bad passes to the middle of the ice. But, he's still a valuable forward and I think a proud vet like him bounces back with a good game against Philly.
Naslund is a very "dumb" hockey player. He makes a lot of bad plays and takes bad penalties every game, but sometimes makes up for it by being able to score goals. He looks like someone without a lot of hockey smarts who just happens to have enough skills to put up some points

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 07:45 AM
  #834
Anthony Mauro
DB Hockey
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,665
vCash: 500
Why did Naslund only get 9 minutes?

Anthony Mauro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 07:50 AM
  #835
RinkOnEStreet
Registered User
 
RinkOnEStreet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 1,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Why did Naslund only get 9 minutes?
Because he looked awful. Just floated out there and took a stupid interference penalty that cost us a goal. He should have played less.

RinkOnEStreet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 08:31 AM
  #836
Chimp
Registered User
 
Chimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In my food garden.
Country: Sweden
Posts: 10,490
vCash: 500
Torts is challenging his players to be better. I can never fault him for doing that. I will never hold Torts at fault for holding his players accountable. That's one of the things we were looking forward to.

Torts was probably also very disappointed in Zherdev tonight, because he holds high standards for him. He sees how good he is and knows he could be a leading player on a regular basis. He has started the "operation make Zherdev a franchise player" project.

Chimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 08:35 AM
  #837
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
Torts is challenging his players to be better. I can never fault him for doing that. I will never hold Torts at fault for holding his players accountable. That's one of the things we were looking forward to.

Torts was probably also very disappointed in Zherdev tonight, because he holds high standards for him. He sees how good he is and knows he could be a leading player on a regular basis. He has started the "operation make Zherdev a franchise player" project.
Zherdev will be back on the top line vs Philly, they need him and Naslund better picker up too

Vitto79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 09:20 AM
  #838
Synergy27
Registered User
 
Synergy27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 4,799
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Zherdev will be back on the top line vs Philly, they need him and Naslund better picker up too
You don't break up a top line that looked so good together. Gomez better start the game against Philly with Callahan and Avery on his wings, it would be a crime to break them up after last night.

That said, I hope Zherdev gets the message, practices hard today, and sees the ice again tomorrow. If he ends up playing with Korpikoski and Naslund, and playing well, we could have three legitimate lines that are a threat to score. I would be a bit hesitant to throw our two laziest/slowest forwards on the same line though.

Synergy27 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 09:20 AM
  #839
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
Torts is challenging his players to be better. I can never fault him for doing that. I will never hold Torts at fault for holding his players accountable. That's one of the things we were looking forward to.

Torts was probably also very disappointed in Zherdev tonight, because he holds high standards for him. He sees how good he is and knows he could be a leading player on a regular basis. He has started the "operation make Zherdev a franchise player" project.
No one knows what happened in the break between the periods. Do we even know that Zherdev was benched? May be he got ill like Henke the other night?

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 09:26 AM
  #840
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
absolutely. the board wasn't nearly as forgiving when Renney benched Zherdev (and I think Zherdev played 13 minutes in that game).
That's because Gomez, Drury and Redden were playing horrible for about 10 games in a row, w/ Renney just giving them more and more playing time. Zherdev was playing fine and had one bad game, and got benched. Big difference. Renney NEVER held his vets accountable, otherwise Gomez, Drury and maybe even Redden (hard to bench a dman) should have been benched alot during the first couple months of the year.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 09:30 AM
  #841
WhipNash27
Quattro!!
 
WhipNash27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 15,594
vCash: 500
Avery - Gomez - Callahan
Zherdev - Dubinsky - Antropov
Naslund - Drury - Korpikoski
SOB

That's what I'd like to see.

WhipNash27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 09:40 AM
  #842
SouvenirCity
Registered User
 
SouvenirCity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wading River, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 622
vCash: 500
I hate how everyone has gone from "Zherdev is incredible" to "If he doesn't want to re-sign, don't push it". Zherdev being benched one game does not take away from how much we need him if we want to succeed in the playoffs, and for that matter win at least one of the games this weekend against Philly.

Avery - Gomez - Callahan
Zherdev - Dubinsky - Antropov
Naslund - Drury - Korpikoski
S - B - O

Thats what I'd run the next game.

SouvenirCity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 09:43 AM
  #843
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,019
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouvenirCity View Post
I hate how everyone has gone from "Zherdev is incredible" to "If he doesn't want to re-sign, don't push it"
I've never felt that he's incredible. I do think he's a top talent with almost unforgivable inconsistency. And I do believe that if he doesn't want to resign, don't push it. I don't anyone here who doesn't want to be here. I'll happily take the compensation.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 09:46 AM
  #844
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No one knows what happened in the break between the periods. Do we even know that Zherdev was benched? May be he got ill like Henke the other night?
Okay, he was benched as per Zipay:

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/hockey/rangers/blog/

Quote:
With the Rangers down 2-1 to the Predators after a poor first period, head coach John Tortorella---his emotions looking ready to reach the boiling point on the bench---let it all hang out.
"Once they took the lead, we kinda sagged our heads," said Scott Gomez after the Rangers rebounded for a 4-2 win that lifted them out of ninth place and back into the Eastern Conference playoff picture. "He came in and stopped it right there. He called us out. He let us know it. It's been a long time since I heard a speech like that. He definitely woke a lot of guys up, if we don't play every night like that, we're just cheating ourselves."

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 09:46 AM
  #845
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,822
vCash: 500
In a cap world you need to make the most of your assets. If we loose Zherdev for nothing we haven't exactly done that...

I hope that Zherdev himself is inspired to take the next step, playing on a regular basis against Malkin, AO and Kovalchuk also might push him in that direction. Zherdev is a shrimp in comparision to thoose 3. If he could add some lbs and develop his shot he could turn into a really good sniper who will work in Torts system.

But without any doubt, guys like Zherdev fits in allot worse in Torts system. Torts wants his team to play the game at one speed and one speed only, guys like Zherdev
-- and even Zetterberg and Datsyuk and others -- creates most of their offense from changing the tempo. First slow it down, then a tempo change.

Ola is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 09:53 AM
  #846
abev
HFBoards Sponsor
 
abev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,590
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
In a cap world you need to make the most of your assets. If we loose Zherdev for nothing we haven't exactly done that...

I hope that Zherdev himself is inspired to take the next step, playing on a regular basis against Malkin, AO and Kovalchuk also might push him in that direction. Zherdev is a shrimp in comparision to thoose 3. If he could add some lbs and develop his shot he could turn into a really good sniper who will work in Torts system.

But without any doubt, guys like Zherdev fits in allot worse in Torts system. Torts wants his team to play the game at one speed and one speed only, guys like Zherdev
-- and even Zetterberg and Datsyuk and others -- creates most of their offense from changing the tempo. First slow it down, then a tempo change.
I just don't know if Zherdev is a 'fighter'. Not literally drop the gloves kind of guy, but what does he do when the chips are down? If Zherdev was a third line guy for the Rangers, I would say try and re-sign him for a good value. But they need him to score 30+ goals, and I just don't know if he can do that consistently.

abev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 10:03 AM
  #847
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post

I hope that Zherdev himself is inspired to take the next step, playing on a regular basis against Malkin, AO and Kovalchuk also might push him in that direction. Zherdev is a shrimp in comparision to thoose 3. If he could add some lbs and develop his shot he could turn into a really good sniper who will work in Torts system.
He is no shrimp, but I see your point. He is more Iginla kind or player. Not as dominant as any of the "Russian Trio", but could be high impact guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
But without any doubt, guys like Zherdev fits in allot worse in Torts system. Torts wants his team to play the game at one speed and one speed only, guys like Zherdev
-- and even Zetterberg and Datsyuk and others -- creates most of their offense from changing the tempo. First slow it down, then a tempo change.
I agree. Creative players do not fit systems. In general, systems are to get above average results for the group of average individuals. Military do that with quite success. Kovalev, Lecavalier, Afinogenov, Kovalchuk (list goes on and on) all had hard time to adopt and some has never had. Yet any team needs creative players, so it is a two way street and Torts knows that, I am sure.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 10:04 AM
  #848
NYROrtsFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by abev View Post
I just don't know if Zherdev is a 'fighter'. Not literally drop the gloves kind of guy, but what does he do when the chips are down? If Zherdev was a third line guy for the Rangers, I would say try and re-sign him for a good value. But they need him to score 30+ goals, and I just don't know if he can do that consistently.
Zherdev played much of this season with Dubi and Voros.

Voros is an AHLer and Dubi is probably a 4th liner to be honest.. Perhaps 3rd liner for those of you in love with him.

Give Zherdev some talent around him consistently and he'll score goals. I have yet to see this inconsistency that people constantly refer to. He creates offense night in and night out. Sometimes the results are inconsistent, but that is going to happen in hockey. And just about every other sport.

NYROrtsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 10:43 AM
  #849
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,033
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I've never felt that he's incredible. I do think he's a top talent with almost unforgivable inconsistency. And I do believe that if he doesn't want to resign, don't push it. I don't anyone here who doesn't want to be here. I'll happily take the compensation.
I don't understand why people take this approach to players like Zherdev. "Oh man he has all the talent in the world but can't dominate, **** this guy!"

He's talented, but he's not actually *that* talented, and he doesn't have the head for the game to be an elite player. So take him for what he is. A skilled second tier player who can play 1st or 2nd line, but isn't going to be your franchise player or something.

The only reason I see to get on Zherdev is if his inconsistent play means he's making really bad turnovers or not playing defense. If it just means he's struggling to score for a little while, but still finishes the season with 60-70 points, then you know what? That's what he is. Don't pretend that he should be a 100 point player and then get pissed when he isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
But without any doubt, guys like Zherdev fits in allot worse in Torts system. Torts wants his team to play the game at one speed and one speed only, guys like Zherdev
-- and even Zetterberg and Datsyuk and others -- creates most of their offense from changing the tempo. First slow it down, then a tempo change.
Oh ********. Tortorella isn't going to care if Zherdev plays the game with changes in tempo as long as he doesn't make dumb or senseless plays that cough up the puck in bad spots. What you're saying is just ridiculous and not at all what Tortorella is ultimately trying to get out of his players

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I agree. Creative players do not fit systems. In general, systems are to get above average results for the group of average individuals. Military do that with quite success. Kovalev, Lecavalier, Afinogenov, Kovalchuk (list goes on and on) all had hard time to adopt and some has never had. Yet any team needs creative players, so it is a two way street and Torts knows that, I am sure.
The trick is that creative players have to start with the basics of the system, and then use their creativity to go beyond it and be those special palyers. but if they don't buy into the basics of the system first, then they're never going to be top NHLers

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 11:09 AM
  #850
Garv23
Registered User
 
Garv23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rockland, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 967
vCash: 500
I'm glad he benched Z. Not even because of his play that led to that 2nd goal. There were 3 times he went down and he laid there on the ice taking his sweet time getting up while play was reaching our end. This guy shows up every other game or every few games. Drives me nuts.

Big win last night puts us back in the mix. Avery, Gomez and Callahan were awesome. Especially Avery and Callahan. Stall and Girardi looked great as well. I'm really starting to like Derek Morris. He has a real sharp first pass and I'm diggin his PP potential. Not to mention he's a pretty damn solid D man.

Garv23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:32 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.