HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Rink
The Rink For the not so ready for prime-time players, coaches, referees, and the people that have to live with them. Discuss experiences in local leagues, coaching tips, equipment, and training.

Crossover help..

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-11-2009, 07:01 PM
  #1
BuppY
Registered User
 
BuppY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,157
vCash: 500
Crossover help..

Hey guys

After 24 years I finally have started skating and I'm having few problems. I can move forwards and turn both ways, I'm able to do the left cross overs properly at fairly decent speed however I cannot do the crossovers when going closewise. It seems I dont shift my body weight properly to my rightside when doing the crossovers. Can you guys please give me some pointers to improve my cross overs. thanks in advance..

Also has anyone had experience with Easton Ultra skates I just picked them up and was wondering how others feel about them.


Last edited by BuppY: 03-11-2009 at 09:09 PM.
BuppY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2009, 09:11 PM
  #2
BuppY
Registered User
 
BuppY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,157
vCash: 500
Head Coach Help me..

BuppY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2009, 11:03 PM
  #3
cptjeff
[insert joke here]
 
cptjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Washington, DC.
Country: United States
Posts: 8,411
vCash: 501
It's incredibly difficult to teach skating in text. Your best bet is to to to a lesson.

But really, it's the same thing as going left, just reversed. Takes a little practice, but it's the same exact thing. You should be able to figure it out yourself with practice and ice time.

And the ultra lites are an older skate, traditional construction. They're fine for a beginner skater, in fact probably more then you need. Not that great by today's standards though.

cptjeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2009, 11:13 PM
  #4
BuppY
Registered User
 
BuppY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,157
vCash: 500
Thanks for the feedback..

If I can't learn the crossover this year, I will definitely take lessons to improve my skating abilities.

thanks once again.

BuppY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2009, 09:46 PM
  #5
Mr Irreverent
Put me in coach!
 
Mr Irreverent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,264
vCash: 500
I think it has a bit to do with leg strength which is probably why you feel more comfortable crossing over while your body weight is on your right leg. Just practice crossing over while maintaining control and balance on your left leg until it gets stronger.

Mr Irreverent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-12-2009, 10:39 PM
  #6
BadHammy*
MSL For Hart!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Right Behind Me!
Posts: 10,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TearsOFaClown View Post
I think it has a bit to do with leg strength which is probably why you feel more comfortable crossing over while your body weight is on your right leg. Just practice crossing over while maintaining control and balance on your left leg until it gets stronger.
That's a part of it, but so is coordination. The truth is that you must make sure technique is the same on both sides. Also, if you have the wrong hollow or radius, it will be harder.

BadHammy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 02:30 AM
  #7
beardedgraf
Registered User
 
beardedgraf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 704
vCash: 500
When I was a kid, I was the same way. I could crossover to the left, but felt uncomfortable to the right. I had lessons and I was able to fix it with a lot of one leg skating exercises.

Get some speed and lift your left skate off the ice and glide only on your right skate, then lean on your outside edge of the right skate and you will begin to glide clockwise. Do this for a while and get comfortable on that edge, then begin bringing your left leg over and practice pushing off. Just remember, you can go slow, make big circles, and do not be afraid to fall. Focus on one edge at a time.


Last edited by beardedgraf: 03-13-2009 at 02:40 AM.
beardedgraf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 02:45 AM
  #8
Hobgoblin Steve
Bacon of Light
 
Hobgoblin Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bay Ridge
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,947
vCash: 500
yknow...I dont think ive ever crossovered to the right before. I know Ive done the left, but never to the right. Whats even more odd is I dont think ive ever stopped on my right foot (right foot out the most).

Let me know how you trained this (if you do)

Hobgoblin Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 03:04 AM
  #9
beardedgraf
Registered User
 
beardedgraf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobgoblin Steve View Post
yknow...I dont think ive ever crossovered to the right before. I know Ive done the left, but never to the right. Whats even more odd is I dont think ive ever stopped on my right foot (right foot out the most).

Let me know how you trained this (if you do)
Just a small tip that might help, stand along the wall at the bench and hold onto the dasher. Keep one leg planted and push the other along the ice and scrape up some snow. It is good for getting your legs used to the feeling of the edges scraping the top of the ice, but you may have already done this.

beardedgraf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 03:20 AM
  #10
nullterm
Registered User
 
nullterm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,540
vCash: 500
I know what you mean, gone/going through the same trying to turn to the right. My right ankle doesn't feel as strong, like it doesn't know how to support me on the outside edge.

Best piece of advice is find some ice time before/after a game, public skate, stick n puck. Just keep trying to follow orbit around one of the face off circles turning to your bad side till you're dizzy. Improvement comes down to repetition, doing it over n over n over.

Try to bend your knees more. It lowers you center of gravity, so your balance is better. And the lower your butt is to the ice, the longer your stride, the more power each stride (keep your head up though).

Stick pointed in the direction your are turning or towards the center of the face off circle. Look in the direction you're turning with your head up. Lean into the turn.

Focus on trying to keep your weak ankle strong as you crossover it. Eventually the muscles will remember what todo and it will be automatic.

nullterm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 09:19 AM
  #11
Mr Wentworth
Arch Duke of Raleigh
 
Mr Wentworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 4,906
vCash: 500
Quite a few people have this problem.

I think it has to do with the way that open/free skating at rinks is held. It is always in the same direction. Always enter and skate to your right. Which, in turn, leads to the right foot crossing infront of the left.

Then, when it comes time to try it the other way, after years of free skating doing it only one way, people just can't do it.

When I started playing hockey, I had that some problem. Years of only right over left. What I did was just pick up my left foot, and place it in front of my right, so my skates were in a line. Just kept on doing that over and over. Then I started pushing it a little more, maybe the left skate an inch to the right of the right skate...just a little bit more and more.

I was getting the hang of it, and then I switched to goal, and skating became totally different for me.

Mr Wentworth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 01:24 PM
  #12
Headcoach
Registered User
 
Headcoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Headcoach Send a message via MSN to Headcoach Send a message via Yahoo to Headcoach
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH3 RIDDL3R View Post

I'm able to do the left cross overs properly at fairly decent speed however I cannot do the crossovers when going closewise. It seems I dont shift my body weight properly to my rightside when doing the crossovers. Can you guys please give me some pointers to improve my cross overs. thanks in advance..

Let me ask you this question...Do you shoot left?

Here you go....
First thing you want to do is try learning crossing over in a progression.

1. So the first step is to go and face the boards. Just place your hands on the boards so that your arms are at full length.

2. Then I want you to make sure that when you do a cross over in either direction, you make sure that your skates are always pointing towards the boards. Which means they need to be perpendicular to the boards, not parallel to the boards.

3. When you start to bring up that skate to cross over, the foot that is on the ice is the balance skate.

4. Now in order for you to land the skate that is off the ice, you must allow the balance skate to "roll over" on it side by more then 45 degrees. If you do not allow this skate to roll over, you will not be able to land the skate that you are picking up and you will feel like you are going to fall.

5. Once you have that balance skate rolling over by more then 45 degrees, then I want you to move away from the boards by two feet and continue the drill.

6. Once you have this down, I want you to do the same drill down the blue line. All you are is crossing over, skate over skate, down the blue ice. Make sure that your skates don't turn as you walk the line.

7. Once you are walking the line with ease, then I want you to move over to the face off circle.

8. This is a little different, the first part of this progression is to place the right skate on the circle, in which will be skating in a clockwise direction. This right skate is know as the inside skate because it's closest to the inside circle. The other one is know as the outside skate because it's the furthest away from ths cirlce.

9. Now, with the right skate as the balance skate, you are going to place all of your weight on this leg.

10. Then you are going to place the left skate in a "V" configuration so that the toes is out and the heel is touching the right skate heel.

11. Then, you are going to make a "C" cut with the left skate. Now, when you make this "C" cut, you want the weight to be on the heel of the left skate when you push. Try to imagine a slip of paper under the front end of your blade. This is the height distance you want your toe up in order for you to transfer the weight

12. Right at the apogee of the "C", I want you to shift the weight to the middle of the blade and allow the front of your blade to turn back to finish the "C" cut.

13. Once it's back, you start all over again until you are able to have power with this driving "C" cut. The whole purpose of this "C" cut is to teach you how to use the inside edge and have driving force on the outside skate.

14. Now, the next part of this progression is to bring this out side leg up and over the inside leg.

15. Now in order for this to work, you must learn the inside skate over more then 45 degrees towards the center of the circle.

16. At first, you will want to keep this from happening and you will not want to lean this skate over. As of this result, you will not land the outside skate. So lean the inside skate over. If you feel it slipping, get your skates sharpened.

17. Trust that inside outter egde to hold you up as you lean into the circle.

18. At first, try one cross over, then try two in a row, then try three in a row and so on...

19. Now, as you cross over and you lean that inside skate in towards the center circle, allow that balance leg to maintain the weight on that balance leg as mush as possible.

20. Player have a tendency to turn that inside skate out and try to skate on it's inside egde because they are afraid of falling and they don't trust that outside edge that is leaning over. The whole key to a sucessful cross over is allowing the inside skate to roll over.

21. Don't pull back this balance leg until all of the weight is shifted over to the crossover leg and the skate has landed.

22. Players have a tendency to kick out, or walking on the inside skate before the transfer of weight is made. This will cause you to have "Blow-out" power in the inside skate stride. So hold that balance until the cross over skate lands.

Hope this helps.
Head coach

__________________
Hundreds of Hockey Drill for FREE at http://www.passthepuck.net
Headcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 02:25 PM
  #13
LarryO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Invisible Poster View Post
Quite a few people have this problem.

I think it has to do with the way that open/free skating at rinks is held. It is always in the same direction. Always enter and skate to your right. Which, in turn, leads to the right foot crossing infront of the left.
Hmmm... I guess it's not like the city rinks in Montreal. Here, for as long as I can remember, every 15 minutes or so an arena employee whistles and tells everyone that it's time to reverse direction.

LarryO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 02:49 PM
  #14
LarryO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH3 RIDDL3R View Post
Hey guys

After 24 years I finally have started skating and I'm having few problems. I can move forwards and turn both ways, I'm able to do the left cross overs properly at fairly decent speed however I cannot do the crossovers when going closewise. It seems I dont shift my body weight properly to my rightside when doing the crossovers. Can you guys please give me some pointers to improve my cross overs. thanks in advance..
If you can crossover one side, there's no reason why you couldn't figure out the other side. Learning CW crossovers might make you feel like you did 24 years ago when you first learned to crossover CCW but you'll have to go through the same learning curve. Today you have the advantage of knowing CCW so it's mostly a matter of acquiring the muscle memory to execute the same technique CW, and that will only come with a lot of practise.

When I was a kid, like everyone, I had a stronger side, also CCW in my case. With determination, I practised my weak side at every opportunity. I was so obsessed that it got to a point where my CW crossovers and stopping became easier than CCW. From there I started practising both sides equally. That's when I stopped believing people who would say that every person has a naturally stronger side. It's only as strong as you train it to be.

If you can do CCW crossovers properly, a lot of practise will get you that muscle memory and confidence to do it CW. Just do it!

LarryO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2009, 12:29 AM
  #15
BuppY
Registered User
 
BuppY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,157
vCash: 500
Thanks everyone who provided me with the feedback.

I greatly appreciate that.

I have been working on the clockwise crossover (left foot over right) and I'm improving however today I ran into trouble I was breaking in new skates. I was just not comfortable with them and I was having trouble doing cross overs both ways it seemed like my balance leg kept slipping under me and I even got the skates sharpened just a couple of days ago. I dont know what was up with that maybe because its new skates and I wasn't use to them or maybe it was me. Even when I was skating on one leg the skates would slip a lot I never had this problem before it was the first time I really experience something like this.

BuppY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2009, 12:34 AM
  #16
BuppY
Registered User
 
BuppY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,157
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcoach View Post
Let me ask you this question...Do you shoot left?

Here you go....
First thing you want to do is try learning crossing over in a progression.

1. So the first step is to go and face the boards. Just place your hands on the boards so that your arms are at full length.

2. Then I want you to make sure that when you do a cross over in either direction, you make sure that your skates are always pointing towards the boards. Which means they need to be perpendicular to the boards, not parallel to the boards.

3. When you start to bring up that skate to cross over, the foot that is on the ice is the balance skate.

4. Now in order for you to land the skate that is off the ice, you must allow the balance skate to "roll over" on it side by more then 45 degrees. If you do not allow this skate to roll over, you will not be able to land the skate that you are picking up and you will feel like you are going to fall.

5. Once you have that balance skate rolling over by more then 45 degrees, then I want you to move away from the boards by two feet and continue the drill.

6. Once you have this down, I want you to do the same drill down the blue line. All you are is crossing over, skate over skate, down the blue ice. Make sure that your skates don't turn as you walk the line.

7. Once you are walking the line with ease, then I want you to move over to the face off circle.

8. This is a little different, the first part of this progression is to place the right skate on the circle, in which will be skating in a clockwise direction. This right skate is know as the inside skate because it's closest to the inside circle. The other one is know as the outside skate because it's the furthest away from ths cirlce.

9. Now, with the right skate as the balance skate, you are going to place all of your weight on this leg.

10. Then you are going to place the left skate in a "V" configuration so that the toes is out and the heel is touching the right skate heel.

11. Then, you are going to make a "C" cut with the left skate. Now, when you make this "C" cut, you want the weight to be on the heel of the left skate when you push. Try to imagine a slip of paper under the front end of your blade. This is the height distance you want your toe up in order for you to transfer the weight

12. Right at the apogee of the "C", I want you to shift the weight to the middle of the blade and allow the front of your blade to turn back to finish the "C" cut.

13. Once it's back, you start all over again until you are able to have power with this driving "C" cut. The whole purpose of this "C" cut is to teach you how to use the inside edge and have driving force on the outside skate.

14. Now, the next part of this progression is to bring this out side leg up and over the inside leg.

15. Now in order for this to work, you must learn the inside skate over more then 45 degrees towards the center of the circle.

16. At first, you will want to keep this from happening and you will not want to lean this skate over. As of this result, you will not land the outside skate. So lean the inside skate over. If you feel it slipping, get your skates sharpened.

17. Trust that inside outter egde to hold you up as you lean into the circle.

18. At first, try one cross over, then try two in a row, then try three in a row and so on...

19. Now, as you cross over and you lean that inside skate in towards the center circle, allow that balance leg to maintain the weight on that balance leg as mush as possible.

20. Player have a tendency to turn that inside skate out and try to skate on it's inside egde because they are afraid of falling and they don't trust that outside edge that is leaning over. The whole key to a sucessful cross over is allowing the inside skate to roll over.

21. Don't pull back this balance leg until all of the weight is shifted over to the crossover leg and the skate has landed.

22. Players have a tendency to kick out, or walking on the inside skate before the transfer of weight is made. This will cause you to have "Blow-out" power in the inside skate stride. So hold that balance until the cross over skate lands.

Hope this helps.
Head coach
Thanks Headcoach I'll apply this next time Im on the ice.

By the way I shoot right. My right hand is at the butt end of the stick. I write with my right hand also.


I have a lot of trouble doing a C cut with my left skate, however I can do it with my right skate. I will put some time and effort into this so I can learn to the c cuts both ways.

I do the 45 degree rollovers and my counter clockwise crossovers are pretty good Im low to the ice with knees bent and head up. I will practice the clockwise way on monday with the pointers you;ve and others provided me to see if I can improve. I know it will take a lot of practice and Im willing to put in the time and effort, so I can become a better skater.

thanks once again to everyone.

BuppY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2009, 07:13 AM
  #17
beardedgraf
Registered User
 
beardedgraf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH3 RIDDL3R View Post
Thanks everyone who provided me with the feedback.

I greatly appreciate that.

I have been working on the clockwise crossover (left foot over right) and I'm improving however today I ran into trouble I was breaking in new skates. I was just not comfortable with them and I was having trouble doing cross overs both ways it seemed like my balance leg kept slipping under me and I even got the skates sharpened just a couple of days ago. I dont know what was up with that maybe because its new skates and I wasn't use to them or maybe it was me. Even when I was skating on one leg the skates would slip a lot I never had this problem before it was the first time I really experience something like this.
That is probably because the new skates' radius or profile, which is how much of the skate blade actually touches the ice, is different than what you're used to. I wouldn't worry about it though, everytime I wear a different pair of skates for the first time, I immediately want to put my old ones on.

beardedgraf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2009, 08:30 AM
  #18
Headcoach
Registered User
 
Headcoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Headcoach Send a message via MSN to Headcoach Send a message via Yahoo to Headcoach
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH3 RIDDL3R View Post
By the way I shoot right. My right hand is at the butt end of the stick. I write with my right hand also.
Hum.....

If your right hand is at the butt end of the stick...you shoot left!

Head coach

Headcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2009, 04:40 PM
  #19
BuppY
Registered User
 
BuppY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,157
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcoach View Post
Hum.....

If your right hand is at the butt end of the stick...you shoot left!

Head coach
Sorry about the confusion.. I'm actually a right hand shot. Left hand is on the butt end of the stick and right hand on the shaft.

sorry I dont know how I made that mistake before.

I also write with my right hand.

I bat with right throw with right golf right handed. I do eveyrthing with right hand.

BuppY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2009, 02:38 AM
  #20
BadHammy*
MSL For Hart!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Right Behind Me!
Posts: 10,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH3 RIDDL3R View Post
Sorry about the confusion.. I'm actually a right hand shot. Left hand is on the butt end of the stick and right hand on the shaft.

sorry I dont know how I made that mistake before.

I also write with my right hand.

I bat with right throw with right golf right handed. I do eveyrthing with right hand.
Except you play hockey like you are a left handed, hehe. But to point something out for you, if you naturally turn/stop/crossover to your stick side, then it's not nearly as bad. That will hide it a lot.

BadHammy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2009, 01:00 PM
  #21
EmptyNetter
Registered User
 
EmptyNetter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Shore, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcoach View Post
14. Now, the next part of this progression is to bring this out side leg up and over the inside leg.

15. Now in order for this to work, you must lean the inside skate over more then 45 degrees towards the center of the circle.

16. At first, you will want to keep this from happening and you will not want to lean this skate over. As of this result, you will not land the outside skate. So lean the inside skate over. If you feel it slipping, get your skates sharpened.

17. Trust that inside outter egde to hold you up as you lean into the circle.
Just wanted to add one thing to your post, HC. In crossing over right and getting your skate to a 45-degree lean a skater needs to lean his entire body toward the center of the circle. Lower body has more of a lean, upper body less so in order to keep from tipping over.

As LarryO mentioned muscle strength and muscle memory, built up by continually skating clockwise around the rink makes the learning process much easier. Having enough strength in your lateral abs will make this much easier -- both in holding a certain position and in allowing you to practice longer without tiring.

Not trying to make this into a babe thread but this youtube shows a good dry land exercise for targeting the area.



Oh, and as beardedgraf mentioned the deeper the hollow of your skate blade the better traction (less slide) you'll get as you push off. Unfortunately you'll have less glide on the straight-aways but you'll have better overall agility.

EmptyNetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2009, 01:51 PM
  #22
Headcoach
Registered User
 
Headcoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Headcoach Send a message via MSN to Headcoach Send a message via Yahoo to Headcoach
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmptyNetter View Post
Just wanted to add one thing to your post, HC. In crossing over right and getting your skate to a 45-degree lean a skater needs to lean his entire body toward the center of the circle. Lower body has more of a lean, upper body less so in order to keep from tipping over.
Well, 45 degree is more of an exaggeration, then anything else. However, in order to teach players how to land the cross over skate, they must learn to lean this balance skate over in order to allow the weight transfer to be accomplished.

Once a player can understand and get the full effect on balance and weight transfer, then they could be taught how to lean into the circle.

The whole purpose of leaning into the circle is to compensate for centrifugal force. As one tries to make a turn, the weight is more toward the chest which gives the player a high center of gravity, forcing him outward during the turn.

By leaning into the circle, it lower the higher center of gravity towards the circle and it keep you from blowing out. The more speed you do, the more learn you must make in order to maintain the angle of approach towards the epogee. Once you have reached this point, it's just a matter of weight transfer again towards the upright position, in order for the player to start his straight on attack.

However, again, the whole idea of this 45 degree angle of the blade is to teach confidence on landing that cross over skate.

Head coach

Headcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2009, 07:55 PM
  #23
BuppY
Registered User
 
BuppY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,157
vCash: 500
Update:

I went skating last few days and I took all your guys advise and did as I was told. I can now do clockwise crossovers.

Im still not perfect at them but I'm improving and I just keep doing them over and over.

Once again thanks

Also I feel much better on my skates now that I've skated in them few times and I also got them heat molded.

Next up after the crossovers is Learning to do the hockey stop. Till than take care and good night to ya'll..

once again much appreciated.

BuppY is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:09 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.