HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Rink
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Rink For the not so ready for prime-time players, coaches, referees, and the people that have to live with them. Discuss experiences in local leagues, coaching tips, equipment, and training.

What makes a Pro...a pro?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-13-2009, 08:47 PM
  #1
Headcoach
Registered User
 
Headcoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Headcoach Send a message via MSN to Headcoach Send a message via Yahoo to Headcoach
What makes a Pro...a pro?

Ok, here's a question. What makes a Pro...a Pro? Is it money? Is it experience?

If it's experience, how many years must he have? Is a rookie considered a Pro?
If it's money, how much money does he have to have to be considered to be a Pro?

Example: I have a professional accountant that charges me $800.00 USD each year to do my taxes. He is considered a professional but he only charges me that. If I go looking for someone that will charge me less, will this new accountant drop out of the pro ranking?

You see where I am getting at?

Ok, let look at a professional coach. At what point do you call him a professional coach? Is a semi-pro coach a pro?

Ok, lets say it money and experience. If I get paid $50,000 a year to coach and I have over 40 years of experience, does that make me a professional in my field?

Head coach

__________________
Hundreds of Hockey Drill for FREE at http://www.passthepuck.net
Headcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 09:15 PM
  #2
stick9
Registered User
 
stick9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 9,941
vCash: 500
In my eyes you have to be able to make a living at it to be considered a professional. So 50k a year coaching hockey would most certainly make you a professional hockey coach, even if you are coaching amateurs like say collage athletes.

Two examples from websters.com.
Quote:
11. a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.

12. an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro.

stick9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 09:17 PM
  #3
RobertKron
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,611
vCash: 500
I'd say that it's probably a threshold you cross once your primary income is from coaching.

RobertKron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2009, 10:23 PM
  #4
Escapades
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 63
vCash: 500
Ya I think once your making your living off of playing/coaching your considered a professional.

Escapades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2009, 09:47 AM
  #5
qwertysac
Registered User
 
qwertysac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,090
vCash: 500
Yup, like others have said, when you're job is to play/coach the sport and youre doing it for a living and getting paid for it, that's when you're considered a professional athlete/coach.

qwertysac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2009, 03:35 PM
  #6
RangerFan10
Registered User
 
RangerFan10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island/Plattsbu
Country: United States
Posts: 5,327
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to RangerFan10
Here is my idea of what makes a pro:
Professional - Someone that makes a living or the majority of their income from the sport.

Semi-Professional - Someone that makes money from the sport, but not their main source of income.

RangerFan10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2009, 11:27 AM
  #7
WpgBoy84
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Country: Canada
Posts: 568
vCash: 500
to me, what makes a professional is a combination of things.
they must first have an education in the field they are working in. even for athletes, they must have the knowledge of their game.
they must also have the skills that allow them to be better than your average talent pool. in order to succeed, you need to have the skills to do well.
money comes into play if you can make it to a high enough level. sure you could say that if you make $50,000 coaching you therefore are a professional. but find me a coaching job that will pay you that much money that you can get without having the skills and knowledge.
for coaches, you must also be able to impart what you know and what you want to see happen in your players. just because you know the game doesn't mean you can get results.
for athletes, I also believe genetics comes into play. sure you can train and become a great athlete, but what separates the elite athletes from everyone else is genetics.
those are what I believe make a pro a pro. I could be completely wrong.

WpgBoy84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2009, 12:05 PM
  #8
Headcoach
Registered User
 
Headcoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Headcoach Send a message via MSN to Headcoach Send a message via Yahoo to Headcoach
Quote:
Originally Posted by WpgBoy84 View Post
they must first have an education in the field they are working in. even for athletes, they must have the knowledge of their game.
they must also have the skills that allow them to be better than your average talent pool. in order to succeed, you need to have the skills to do well.
Not so sure on the skills. Pat Burns coached youth hockey when he started and I think he was a postman. Then moved up to Major Juniors as a coach. So I don't think he had the skill level as per say as he had the game knowledge.

Quote:
For coaches, you must also be able to impart what you know and what you want to see happen in your players. just because you know the game doesn't mean you can get results.
This is true! Just because you are called the "Great One", doesn't mean that he can communicate his greatness to his players. The proof is in the pudding...so to speak!

Head coach

Headcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2009, 07:02 PM
  #9
Gino 14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 812
vCash: 500
If someone is willing to pay you for your coaching skills and you can make a living off that income you can consider yourself a professional. This is one of those questions that has no correct answer, it's more one that someone asks to hopefully get an answer that will make them feel better about themself.

Gino 14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2009, 11:46 PM
  #10
Headcoach
Registered User
 
Headcoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Headcoach Send a message via MSN to Headcoach Send a message via Yahoo to Headcoach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
This is one of those questions that has no correct answer, it's more one that someone asks to hopefully get an answer that will make them feel better about themself.
Oh ok, thank god you posted, now I feel better about myself and my abilities to coach.

Head coach

Headcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2009, 05:59 AM
  #11
Gino 14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcoach View Post
Oh ok, thank god you posted, now I feel better about myself and my abilities to coach.

Head coach
Professionals don't have to ask questions like that. What possible result did you expect to come by with a question that vague?

Gino 14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2009, 11:08 AM
  #12
IniNew
 
IniNew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Keller
Country: United States
Posts: 337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
Professionals don't have to ask questions like that. What possible result did you expect to come by with a question that vague?
"Discussion".

IniNew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2009, 01:41 PM
  #13
Headcoach
Registered User
 
Headcoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Headcoach Send a message via MSN to Headcoach Send a message via Yahoo to Headcoach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
Professionals don't have to ask questions like that. What possible result did you expect to come by with a question that vague?
It was just a question that you are taken out of context. If you recall it says...

Ok, lets say it money and experience. If I get paid $50,000 a year to coach and I have over 40 years of experience, does that make me a professional in my field?

Plus, I said professioanl in my field. For all you know, I could be working at Home Depot.

Head coach

Headcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2009, 05:50 AM
  #14
Gino 14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcoach View Post
It was just a question that you are taken out of context. If you recall it says...

Ok, lets say it money and experience. If I get paid $50,000 a year to coach and I have over 40 years of experience, does that make me a professional in my field?

Plus, I said professioanl in my field. For all you know, I could be working at Home Depot.

Head coach
You answered your own question, life is good.

Gino 14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2009, 06:18 AM
  #15
Ciccarelli
Registered User
 
Ciccarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,142
vCash: 500
It's about the money. You make your living out of hockey = you are a professional. Funny thing I've noticed here on Hfboards, NA posters usually refer to NHL'ers and AHL'ers when they talk about pro players. For example ppl say Janne Pesonen is playing his first "pro" season eventhough he's played about 5 or 6 seasons in finnish sm-liiga earning approx 250k$ per year.

So basicly:
player A earning 50k$/season in AHL = professional
player B earning 250k$/season in Europe = not a professional = amateur

I personally can't see how this makes any sense.

Ciccarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2009, 02:34 PM
  #16
TonyTinglebone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcoach View Post
Not so sure on the skills. Pat Burns coached youth hockey when he started and I think he was a postman. Then moved up to Major Juniors as a coach. So I don't think he had the skill level as per say as he had the game knowledge.
I think he meant skills in that particular field. To have skills in the theoretical you do not necessarily need to have the practical skills. I would imagine you caould trace every NHL coach back to coaching in youth hockey. Burns gained coaching skills until he was considered good enough to coach in the Q, he gained more skills there until he was considered good enough to coach in the show. Hence he would have to be considered as having the skills to put him in the upper echelon of hockey coaches.

Also I would consider game knowledge one of, if not the most essential skills necessary to become a successful coach.

TonyTinglebone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2009, 03:10 PM
  #17
Headcoach
Registered User
 
Headcoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Headcoach Send a message via MSN to Headcoach Send a message via Yahoo to Headcoach
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman03 View Post
Also I would consider game knowledge one of, if not the most essential skills necessary to become a successful coach.
Oh I agree, It's hard to help a player, if you don't at least know the basics. But, one of the other thing I was talking about on a different forum was also the ability to have players that are coachable.

You can have a good or great coach on the bench with all of this knowledge, but you have to have players sometime take it on faith that the coach, that is steering the boat actually knows the game.

Lets look at Phoenix. Here you have one, if not the greatest hockey player ever to play the game and the team doesn't make it to the playoffs year after year.
As an outside observer looking in, I see great talent, but they don't seem to have that magic spark.

You know, you have probably seen Peewee teams that have better tape to tape passing and moving the puck around within the attacking zone, then Phoenix. A lot of of people out there might say...will what do you expect, hockey in the desert!

Yeah, but most of the players are from Canada if not all. Does the heat make them forget how to play as a team? Or can it be that the coach doesn't communicate to the players how he wants to see the game played, or is it that the players are not coachable?

Yes it's a little off topic, but I wanted to get your opinion on this as well.

Head coach

Headcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2009, 01:19 PM
  #18
TonyTinglebone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcoach View Post
Oh I agree, It's hard to help a player, if you don't at least know the basics. But, one of the other thing I was talking about on a different forum was also the ability to have players that are coachable.

You can have a good or great coach on the bench with all of this knowledge, but you have to have players sometime take it on faith that the coach, that is steering the boat actually knows the game.

Lets look at Phoenix. Here you have one, if not the greatest hockey player ever to play the game and the team doesn't make it to the playoffs year after year.
As an outside observer looking in, I see great talent, but they don't seem to have that magic spark.

You know, you have probably seen Peewee teams that have better tape to tape passing and moving the puck around within the attacking zone, then Phoenix. A lot of of people out there might say...will what do you expect, hockey in the desert!

Yeah, but most of the players are from Canada if not all. Does the heat make them forget how to play as a team? Or can it be that the coach doesn't communicate to the players how he wants to see the game played, or is it that the players are not coachable?

Yes it's a little off topic, but I wanted to get your opinion on this as well.

Head coach
Every player is coachable, but not even the best coach can communicate with every player. This is where a coach must know his strengths and weaknesses and prevent those weaknesses being exposed by the addition of assistants that cover them up with their abilities. If the assistants can't cover all of these weaknesses a good coach will enlist the help of players. Scotty Bowman attributes a lot of his success to having great leadership on his teams and getting help from those players.

Gretzky was an amazing hockey player, and sometimes that does not translate to a good coach. Some people who are extremely successful also have a hard time admitting mistakes or asking for help since they rarely ever have needed to. This is why I believe a lot of great hockey minds come from people who played minor roles in the NHL or peaked at the AHL or never even made it that far. (i.e. Pat Quinn, Lindy Ruff, Claude Julien, etc.)

Also wrt to Gretzky, he basically stepped right into a coaching role at the NHL level. He never coached at a lower level and was never an assistant. I will use your earlier example of Pat Burns as a comparison. Burns paid his dues coaching all the way up from minor hockey until he made it to the NHL. Along the way Burns would have picked up a lot of tips and tricks from fellow coaches as well as gaining experience dealing with players from a coaches perspective. This is what made Pat Burns a great NHL coach. Gretzky only has experience from a players perspective, he has also surrounded himself with guys he played with that also have little to no experience. I would call this the "learn as you go" approach, and Gretz would have been fired if not for who he is. In my opinion Gretzky has put himself in a position to either have immense success or failure since you can't expect mediocrity from him, and it isn't looking good as of yet. As great a hockey personality Gretzky is, he still needs to take his lumps before he becomes a good NHL coach.

I can't think of any other player in recent history that has stepped straight into a NHL head coach position like Gretzky has.

TonyTinglebone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:27 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.